Post by bibliothecary on Nov 30, 2016 15:04:26 GMT -5
Okay. I'm just going to take my admin hat right off and sit down with you guys.
I don't think you know what you want. You say it's a change in how we handle AE accounts. We propose, you get angry about that. You say it's an apology. You get several. From me. From theo. From Naria. You get an explanation as to why Naria was the one pulling the trigger. You're still angry. You call our heartfelt explanations and attempts to improve bullshit.
So fuck it. I'm done. I've tried listening. I've tried asking for solutions. I've tried asking you to get that we're people and sometimes we fuck up. That we're trying our best. But that's not enough.
It's my husband's only day off this week. And I've spent it trying to figure out how to make you people happy. I'm done. Figure out what would make you happy on your own. Come to me when you actually have a concrete idea, other than "THIS THING WAS NOT GOOD AND WE ARE UNHAPPY." I'm going out with my family.
Post by theophania on Nov 30, 2016 15:05:25 GMT -5
This pile-on is unnecessary.
For the record, we did ask NariaDreaming to let us handle it because it seemed that anything she said was not going to be acceptable. I feel like the current response shows that to be true.
I feel like some of you are getting a little unglued over this. I sort of get your frustration/point, but it seems over the top.
I get that. For me personally it's a pretty deep annoyance at the seemingly constant Naria dick suck and "thank you so much for all of your hard work" nonsense that goes on. Don't get me wrong I'm all about acknowledging hard work but that's often used here as a way to silence anyone who dares to speak up/out against general ridiculousness. And after all of that, she shows what she really thinks of the community with a guilt trip and a sorrynotsorry.
IMO it's insulting and I'd never let another business treat me like this nor would I patronize one who treated its customers as such but it's a Catch-22 because I have friends here so it's not like "just leave" is a really viable option.
I feel like some of you are getting a little unglued over this. I sort of get your frustration/point, but it seems over the top.
I get that. For me personally it's a pretty deep annoyance at the seemingly constant Naria dick suck and "thank you so much for all of your hard work" nonsense that goes on. Don't get me wrong I'm all about acknowledging hard work but that's often used here as a way to silence anyone who dares to speak up/out against general ridiculousness. And after all of that, she shows what she really thinks of the community with a guilt trip and a sorrynotsorry.
IMO it's insulting and I'd never let another business treat me like this nor would I patronize one who treated its customers as such but it's a Catch-22 because I have friends here so it's not like "just leave" is a really viable option.
Number One: Born 06.16.2009 BFP: 01.17.2014 / MC 02.05.2014 BFP: 03.08.2014 / MMC: 05.07.2014 Dx: Partial Molar/GTD. Benched until 01.2015 Number Two: Born 07.22.2016
Post by frankenboom on Nov 30, 2016 15:12:39 GMT -5
And FTR I did present a proposed solution/suggestion but no one bit so if my idea is in the minority I can certainly accept that, but we were asked for suggestions so I did try.
But I also felt like voicing my opinion so I did that too.
Post by risscaboobs on Nov 30, 2016 15:15:26 GMT -5
Ok. Maybe the pile-on seems harsh. I'm sorry for that, NariaDreaming.
And go out, bibliothecary. Enjoy your day. This is not all that serious. Thank you for your efforts in trying to calm the community.
The new guidelines are a great start. Naria conducting herself more professionally in the future will help as well. I'm at work right now, so I can't expound on more ideas ATM, but yeah.
I feel like some of you are getting a little unglued over this. I sort of get your frustration/point, but it seems over the top.
I see both sides.
I know the admins are trying to give a solution and a response that's going to satisfy all 5,000 of their members, which is impossible.
I also get that it's incredibly frustrating for the users to keep tagging and asking for a response and feeling ignored. The last time I remember people feeling that way, it ended with people posting gay porn on the board.
And FTR I did present a proposed solution/suggestion but no one bit so if my idea is in the minority I can certainly accept that, but we were asked for suggestions so I did try.
But I also felt like voicing my opinion so I did that too.
Thank you. I am all for having the moderators being hands on in this. And I think they would be more than happy to be hands on in the panel/tribunal as well. Let the three of us talk it over as a team, and with the mods, but I definitely think it can be a part of the bigger solution.
ETA: for this to work though, we are all going to have to break the tagging and PM habit, and start utilizing the report post button more often. Mods get notification of reported posts. Thank god they don't all get notified when an admin is tagged because I'm pretty sure they would have burned my house down by now after today
Last Edit: Nov 30, 2016 15:20:41 GMT -5 by NariaDreaming
5 years TTC 2 c/p's 2 failed IUIs/1 cancelled IVF 1 failed IVF 1 failed FET BFP 12/1/15. We said goodbye to Tiny 1/4/16 Fresh cycle #3 2/16 8R/7M/5F BFP 5/12/16 We said goodbye to flutter on 5/27 and poprock on 5/28 BFP 8/30/16 We said goodbye to Samuel 10/3 (Trisomy 16) Moving on to Donor Embryos BFP 12/20/16 We said goodbye to Turtle 12/30
Post by theophania on Nov 30, 2016 15:22:55 GMT -5
Cherhorowitz, I will take the blame for that. I felt that any response NariaDreaming made was not going to be enough. I thought that it would best if Biblio and I handled the responses since we were very clear that we were all discussing and agreeing with what we were saying. Obviously I was wrong. I am sorry to NariaDreaming that my decision making was not correct in this situation. I'm sorry in general that it has caused what I had hoped would be a positive discussion for how to move forward with future issues to devolve as it has. I'm sorry.
I don't even know know what the hell is going on in here. But why the customer/business correlation? We aren't paying the admins anything so this doesn't make sense to me.
If this is a business then we are its customers, paying or not.
TCF may want to focus group these kinds of quandaries rather than a board-wide discussion. Get a pool of 20 volunteers to participate, inviting members at random for each issue, rather than opening it up to the entire board. While entertaining, these site-wides generally seem to do more harm than good, and I think a focus group is an acceptable course of action for businesses. It still gives the community a voice but we don't have to go thru these periodic brawls.
This is a great idea. We actually have a focus group that we've used in the past made up of people across the boards. We will discuss how we can utilize this group for the future if they are interested.
And FTR I did present a proposed solution/suggestion but no one bit so if my idea is in the minority I can certainly accept that, but we were asked for suggestions so I did try.
But I also felt like voicing my opinion so I did that too.
Thank you. I am all for having the moderators being hands on in this. And I think they would be more than happy to be hands on in the panel/tribunal as well. Let the three of us talk it over as a team, and with the mods, but I definitely think it can be a part of the bigger solution.
ETA: for this to work though, we are all going to have to break the tagging and PM habit, and start utilizing the report post button more often. Mods get notification of reported posts. Thank god they don't all get notified when an admin is tagged because I'm pretty sure they would have burned my house down by now after today
I agree the PMs and tags to Admins need to not be the method for this stuff.
TCF may want to focus group these kinds of quandaries rather than a board-wide discussion. Get a pool of 20 volunteers to participate, inviting members at random for each issue, rather than opening it up to the entire board. While entertaining, these site-wides generally seem to do more harm than good, and I think a focus group is an acceptable course of action for businesses. It still gives the community a voice but we don't have to go thru these periodic brawls.
This is a great idea. We actually have a focus group that we've used in the past made up of people across the boards. We will discuss how we can utilize this group for the future if they are interested.
Or could we even nominate/elect representatives for the group?
So how many member are there now? Cause if there's 5000 and only 500 answered the poll, that's not a representative sampling at all. As well as the fact that seems you'd like us all to come to a consensus, and be happy here, but we are not one voice, one cohesive unit.
There will always be differences, but how you handle those differences, is what makes the board sink or swim long term. It's not just transparency, it's admitting screw ups and being united on most things but having the balls to stand up when you do something unusual or as an individual and the board asks for answers directly.
Like we never liked the bump to just spew the bump oneness and the bump rules and posters feeling like they were being ignored by the bump gods...
Cherhorowitz, I will take the blame for that. I felt that any response NariaDreaming made was not going to be enough. I thought that it would best if Biblio and I handled the responses since we were very clear that we were all discussing and agreeing with what we were saying. Obviously I was wrong. I am sorry to NariaDreaming that my decision making was not correct in this situation. I'm sorry in general that it has caused what I had hoped would be a positive discussion for how to move forward with future issues to devolve as it has. I'm sorry.
This. All of the applicable parts of this. I'm sorry that this devolved the way it did. And I'm sorry I didn't say I'm sorry sooner. Judgement calls were made. Judgement calls went horribly wrong. And sometimes people with the best of intentions manage to bumble it all up worse.
So I hope everyone can accept the best of intentions and see that the actions we take moving forward truly speak for what we believe in.
5 years TTC 2 c/p's 2 failed IUIs/1 cancelled IVF 1 failed IVF 1 failed FET BFP 12/1/15. We said goodbye to Tiny 1/4/16 Fresh cycle #3 2/16 8R/7M/5F BFP 5/12/16 We said goodbye to flutter on 5/27 and poprock on 5/28 BFP 8/30/16 We said goodbye to Samuel 10/3 (Trisomy 16) Moving on to Donor Embryos BFP 12/20/16 We said goodbye to Turtle 12/30
This is a great idea. We actually have a focus group that we've used in the past made up of people across the boards. We will discuss how we can utilize this group for the future if they are interested.
Or could we even nominate/elect representatives for the group?
Would it make sense for the mods of other boards to be part of this focus group? Or is that relying too much on potentially partisan individuals?
Post by lupineaura on Nov 30, 2016 15:32:46 GMT -5
I 100% understood the frustration of people not getting a response from NariaDreaming, but common guys. Don't keep piling on when she does post what (to me) seems like a well thought-out reply, and it does start with an "admission of guilt" so to speak. I'm sure if all she had written was "I'm sorry," people would have been like "THAT'S IT??"
I actually didn't know that Theo and Biblio were "equal partners" so to speak, so that's useful info. As a woman I don't *love* the idea of one person on a team having to do more of the work than others because they don't have kids, but the division of labor is certainly not up to us or up for discussion among anyone besides the admins.
It's fair to ask questions of the admins, but lay off the repeated personal attacks.
I 100% understood the frustration of people not getting a response from NariaDreaming, but common guys. Don't keep piling on when she does post what (to me) seems like a well thought-out reply, and it does start with an "admission of guilt" so to speak. I'm sure if all she had written was "I'm sorry," people would have been like "THAT'S IT??"
I actually didn't know that Theo and Biblio were "equal partners" so to speak, so that's useful info. As a woman I don't *love* the idea of one person on a team having to do more of the work than others because they don't have kids, but the division of labor is certainly not up to us or up for discussion among anyone besides the admins.
It's fair to ask questions of the admins, but lay off the repeated personal attacks.
TCF may want to focus group these kinds of quandaries rather than a board-wide discussion. Get a pool of 20 volunteers to participate, inviting members at random for each issue, rather than opening it up to the entire board. While entertaining, these site-wides generally seem to do more harm than good, and I think a focus group is an acceptable course of action for businesses. It still gives the community a voice but we don't have to go thru these periodic brawls.
This is a great idea. We actually have a focus group that we've used in the past made up of people across the boards. We will discuss how we can utilize this group for the future if they are interested.
I think the focus group is too small of a sample to make rules and decisions for the whole group.
Maybe a focus group to help you focus on the actual issue at hand, so when you bring the poll to the masses, you don't word it so poorly next time. Cause I'm still shaking my head at the purpose of a pm to someone with an ae.
Post by theophania on Nov 30, 2016 15:36:50 GMT -5
We will take a look at the make-up of the focus group, consider how we want to use it, and then when all of that is determined we will look into the best way to expand it or re-form it.
When the thread exploded in tww, was the mod of that board brought in on the discussion? or other mods? or just the other admins?
cause that's a huge role of the mods of individual boards, they are there every day reading most threads and getting a feel for people. They are a useful tool to help keep admin craziness/overreaction/underreaction under control.
Decisions need to be made with consensus of admins and mods ideally 3-5 are asked opinion and majority agree, rather than one gets a wild hair and the others say whatever.
Post by theophania on Nov 30, 2016 15:49:03 GMT -5
@amyg, we will take all of your thoughts into consideration.
@everyone else I have to be away from my computer for a bit and my phone is acting up. If I am tagged I likely will not respond until much later. Thank you in advance for understanding.
5 years TTC 2 c/p's 2 failed IUIs/1 cancelled IVF 1 failed IVF 1 failed FET BFP 12/1/15. We said goodbye to Tiny 1/4/16 Fresh cycle #3 2/16 8R/7M/5F BFP 5/12/16 We said goodbye to flutter on 5/27 and poprock on 5/28 BFP 8/30/16 We said goodbye to Samuel 10/3 (Trisomy 16) Moving on to Donor Embryos BFP 12/20/16 We said goodbye to Turtle 12/30
If this is a business then we are its customers, paying or not.
If you're not paying you're the product, actually.
What the fuck do you guys want? She apologized. What are you actually looking for?
ETA: I don't want to drag this out, actually. I love this community, I think our admins are trying hard, and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
You quoted me but then said you guys. Are you asking what I want? Because I didn't think I was really unclear in any of my responses, but I'd be happy to elaborate if you were talking directly at me.
You quoted me but then said you guys. Are you asking what I want? Because I didn't think I was really unclear in any of my responses, but I'd be happy to elaborate if you were talking directly at me.
I kept reading and don't need the clarification, thanks. I actually feel like you were doing one of the same things you bitched about NariaDreaming doing on the TWW thread: saying something to get likes and applause and funny gifs and shit. You kept going long after you were actually making forward progress and hurt a lot of people along the way. I think your personal issues and those of your posse with Naria turned into a forum wide clusterfuck unnecessarily.
Well I appreciate the feedback. I can assure you I couldn't care less about funny gifs or applause. I was especially careful in this thread to do my best to speak only for myself and voice my personal opinions. I don't know exactly who my posse is but if people who happen to agree with me happen to be my posse that's news to me.
And since you say I hurt "a lot of people," then to the board: If I hurt anyone's feelings it wasn't my intent and I do apologize, and I'd be happy to apologize personally if anyone I hurt wants to let me know. I have never been purposely malicious (sorry to use that word it just fits the situation) and hurt is never my intent - but I know I can cause it without necessarily trying so I'd be more than glad to make amends for that.
Post by sarahandben108 on Nov 30, 2016 17:00:08 GMT -5
Well, I know I'm not getting rabid over this and I have certainly seen a lot more callouts/ arguments more intense than this thread. I have no real stake in this fight, But as a lurker I can only say that numerous times it was asked how they (admins) can make this better and numerous times it was mentioned an apology.
If this is a business then we are its customers, paying or not.
If you're not paying you're the product, actually.
What the fuck do you guys want? She apologized. What are you actually looking for?
ETA: I don't want to drag this out, actually. I love this community, I think our admins are trying hard, and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I'm really confused as to how we are a product of the board...? Maybe customer isn't the right word here... constituent? Consumer? Client? Patron?
No matter the vocabulary used, the point still stands. An internet forum that wants to be profitable for its owners can not do so without the posters on that site. Advertisers will not pay to advertise on a slow forum. The more users, the more traffic, the more posts, the more clicks, the more money the forum can make. Keeping posters and attracting new ones is the primary goal of internet forums that are trying to turn a profit.
And I know you said you don't want to drag this out, but I just needed to respond. Feel free to ignore me. I also love this community, which is why I get so passionate about problems when they occur. I know our admins are trying hard and will again say how grateful I am for them and what they do. But I also want to see this forum grow not shrink, so when a thread like this asks for opinions, I will share mine. Especially when I think a practice is going to hurt the ultimate goal of helping this place thrive.
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