How hard to push?

[mirandah]

Some days I feel like I'm pushing a boulder that is going nowhere. Other days I feel like just cutting off my arm with a blunt object and leaving the boulder to sit and rot where it is. (Sorry, bad movie reference).

I'm the one who pushes DS. DH is the "nice guy" who never makes him do anything he doesn't like. Don't want to help me rake leaves? Okay, go watch TV. Don't want to go to church? Okay we don't have to. Don't want to continue swimming lessons? Quit. And on and on. (Cub Scouts is on the chopping block next) DS prefers DH hand over fist.

Nothing is convincing DS to engage in his work. His grades are actually okay- he is grade average on everything except writing comprehension. DH thinks we should just back off and quit pushing him to do things he doesn't want to do. For example, DS has expressed wanting to quit the afterschool lego robotic club (called GISE, Guys in Science and Engineering, it's a national thing). It's actually a form of "summer school" or extended learning for kids who are academically at risk in our district, and it's just twice a week. DS says the older kids are mean to him and don't let him participate. DH of course rushes to DS's defense and says we should let him quit. Of course, DH is unwilling to engage with the teacher or go observe a class. I can't attend the class because work is biotch right now, but I have sent several emails to the teacher (cc:ing DH) asking about it- not surprisingly she informed me that DS refuses to engage unless he (1) enjoys the activity or (2) is allowed to lead it. She said he cycles through groups so there is no one group of kids harassing him or anything- she said he gets upset often if he isn't allowed to be the "it" guy building the legos. Still, DH wants to let him quit.

DS has been invited to summer school, again. Last year I was fine telling him he didn't have to go; there is no support for kids on IEPs. The mere mention of it made him start sobbing. This summer, DS has been invited to GISE summer school. It's all day, 4x a week, for 5 weeks. It's at a cool STEM charter school. I talked to the director and she was encouraging; DS's current GISE teacher will be there. There is a variety of classes throughout the day, all STEM related. I actually feel really lucky we were invited; not all kids are. We have to apply soon as spaces fill quickly.

DH is a hard no. Even appealing to his pocketbook- it's free and saves us $1100 in summer day camp fees- he's a no.  True, DS would have an absolute meltdown if I made him go. We have been toying with a trip to Harry Potter World this summer; I was thinking we could use that as a carrot for him going. I asked his current GISE teacher and she said we should at least try it and see how it goes.

WDYT? I'm so tired of pushing the kid without support, and constantly being the bad guy. Yes, this is partly (mostly?) a marital issue, but for the time being, I'm just trying to stay afloat. DH is totally uninterested in counseling. Shoot he won't even go to swimming lessons. Any words of wisdom or encouragement? Would you keep fighting this battle?

Sorry this is so long. Typing is therapeutic. Thanks for reading. 

[spooko]

Yeah, as hard as that is, it's a DH issue and not a pushing issue. I'm that person for my kids, too, and DH is often the fun one. He doesn't let them out of commitments like that because we're on the same page there, but he is by and large the easy parent on all of the little stuff that I'm left to enforce.

I know it's exhausting and it's not fair that you're stuck juggling it all and being the heavy. I also know that for me, when it comes down to it, I'll be damned if I let my kids end up X/Y/Z way and if no one else is going to hold them to the standard I expect, I sure will.

In order to keep persevering in this, definitely pick your battles. But rest assured that there ARE some worth fighting and you're doing the right thing. I empathize.

[mamaturtle]

I know the feeling.

DH would complain about daycare costs and would be so close to pulling DS out. Each time I would tell DH that the daycare gives DS good practice to socialize with other children about the same age and there was not enough time in the school day for DS to socialize. I had to start saying that the counselor we were seeing expressed that this was good for DS at every appointment.

DH has stopped with the thought of this and does back me up on this.

I dread summer daycare costs though.

DS does give me some resistance to Cub Scouts. I just have to do incentives after each meeting like chewing gum during meetings and playing games on my phone afterwards. DS has to go whether he likes it or not.

Your DH seems like he doesn't want to take on any responsibilities. How long has this been going on that you are doing everything?

[akafred]

Last night DD wanted a "treat." What else is new? I have expressed to her and to DH that treats are not for every day. But last night I said she could have one of the four Reese's cups DH got her for Valentines even though she had one on Tuesday night. It is a special occasion (sort of), after all. She really wanted ice cream but was ok with the Reese's premise. Get home and find only one Reese's cup left. DH fed her TWO Reese's cups "for breakfast." So while he was at work I got to deal with telling DD she couldn't have one after all. WTF DH?

Yeah, I get it. This is our dynamic too. In the case of your summer school dilemma, I would really evaluate whether or not the STEM program is actually going to benefit him academically. If he can't or won't really attend it, then he might benefit more from the relief from stress from summer day camp more than the STEM program. Of course you'll also want to consider that he may be more active in the summer since it is earlier in the day. But if he doesn't want it and won't benefit from it anyway, I wouldn't push too hard just because it's theoretically academic.

[mirandah]

Feb 16, 2017 15:04:17 GMT -5 akafred said:

Last night DD wanted a "treat." What else is new? I have expressed to her and to DH that treats are not for every day. But last night I said she could have one of the four Reese's cups DH got her for Valentines even though she had one on Tuesday night. It is a special occasion (sort of), after all. She really wanted ice cream but was ok with the Reese's premise. Get home and find only one Reese's cup left. DH fed her TWO Reese's cups "for breakfast." So while he was at work I got to deal with telling DD she couldn't have one after all. WTF DH?

Yeah, I get it. This is our dynamic too. In the case of your summer school dilemma, I would really evaluate whether or not the STEM program is actually going to benefit him academically. If he can't or won't really attend it, then he might benefit more from the relief from stress from summer day camp more than the STEM program. Of course you'll also want to consider that he may be more active in the summer since it is earlier in the day. But if he doesn't want it and won't benefit from it anyway, I wouldn't push too hard just because it's theoretically academic.

Oh yeah, btdt. Reeses for breakfast, of course!

Thanks for the perspective on the summer school. You're right- I have no idea how helpful it will be, if at all. I'm constantly worried about what happens in the next few years when academics changes from "do your best" to "not good enough" so I my angst over this is a product of my anxiety over how he's going to fare down the road.

[mrsbuttinski]

Snarky answer- tell your DH to start remodeling the basement for your DS asap because that's what comes of ASD and being the "easy" parent who refuses to let their kid be uncomfortable or challenged. Tell him it's OK to raid the college fund for building materials, because he's not fostering the work ethic of the grit your son will need to be an independent adult in a college setting or the workplace.

I am so sorry your DH doesn't get it and isn't a full partner to you or an effective parent for your DS.

It's interesting you reference the boulder. DS's psych compared parenting a kid with Aspergers to the tale of Sisyphus on our very first meeting. You need a true partner if you are to ever stand down because otherwise you will lose all the progress you have made thus far. He would also say that there is no skill, gift or behavior more critical true a truly successful outcome than the ability to be able to attend to a less preferred task when necessary.

I have friends with kids brighter than my own who have never mastered the ability to be OK with taking direction from someone they have trouble respecting, or applying themselves to a subject they don't value or letting themselves be uncomfortable in a situation that is new or challenging for them. Transitioning to young adulthood has been hard for these boys.

I share your sense of urgency. I wonder if it would be possible to have a talk about what your hopes and expectations are for your son and think about helping him become more resilient so that he can roll with the parts of getting to an independent adulthood that don't appeal to him. I was fortunate that DS's psychologist had that come to Jesus with my husband who now parents with all the zeal of a convert.

As for the notion that the older boys are mean; maybe they're annoyed by him and he could improve his social abilities by understanding the impact his behavior has on others. Or maybe this is pure manipulation on your son's part- don't believe a bright kid on spectrum can't be manipulative.

[mrsbuttinski]

Feb 16, 2017 15:04:17 GMT -5 akafred said:

Yeah, I get it. This is our dynamic too. In the case of your summer school dilemma, I would really evaluate whether or not the STEM program is actually going to benefit him academically. If he can't or won't really attend it, then he might benefit more from the relief from stress from summer day camp more than the STEM program. Of course you'll also want to consider that he may be more active in the summer since it is earlier in the day. But if he doesn't want it and won't benefit from it anyway, I wouldn't push too hard just because it's theoretically academic.

With all due respect, Char isn't on spectrum. The piece mirandah,'s DS needs to work on is about more than academics. He's a STEM-kid and attending a STEM summer program would be setting him up with a group of like-minded peers who are also STEM-kids. It's a great opportunity. 

One of my dear friends has a bright STEM kid with HFA. He struggled socially all through elementary and middle school; it was difficult for mom to engage him in other kids. She sent him to CYT every summer so he could interact socially with other kids who shared his interests. Then he got into a magnet school for math and science and things got a lot better. He's at a college well known for STEM and original thinkers and having the time of his life. I don't think it would have clicked as easily had he not been given a group of like-minded peers with which to hone his social chops.

[mirandah]

Feb 16, 2017 13:48:45 GMT -5 mamaturtle said:

I know the feeling.

DH would complain about daycare costs and would be so close to pulling DS out. Each time I would tell DH that the daycare gives DS good practice to socialize with other children about the same age and there was not enough time in the school day for DS to socialize. I had to start saying that the counselor we were seeing expressed that this was good for DS at every appointment.

DH has stopped with the thought of this and does back me up on this.

I dread summer daycare costs though.

DS does give me some resistance to Cub Scouts. I just have to do incentives after each meeting like chewing gum during meetings and playing games on my phone afterwards. DS has to go whether he likes it or not.

Your DH seems like he doesn't want to take on any responsibilities. How long has this been going on that you are doing everything?

My DH would have done the same for daycare! I have totally used the "his psychiatrist said he has to" line. That's how I convinced both DH and DS that he had to go to private social skills classes.

DH is, frankly, an extreme homebody. He is awesome at the domestic stuff. It worked really well when DS was a baby because he was 100% content sitting on the couch in front of the game holding a baby and turning over laundry all day while I went out ran errands. Now it's just really hard to get him to, for example, take DS to a chess tourney on the weekend. So that stuff has just been slotted to my duties, while he does pretty much all the home stuff. Works out fine with me but not when I'm in my busy period of work. During that time DS doesn't do anything but watch TV every night and all weekend. I probably just have to chill out. Come summer, fall I can enroll him in whatever he wants.

[mrsbuttinski]

mirandah,

does your DS take after his dad maybe a little bit? So that maybe dad's self esteem is tied up in all this? Could he feel threatened or judged because you want to fix that parts of DS that are more like dad?

That was kind of DH's MO. I had to censor DH from time to time because he'd make it about him. OMG once he told DS ahead of a den meeting he was fighting me on that "Friends are over-rated". DH and I had a long talk about going forward together after that and things got better.

[mamaturtle]

DH and I have divided the activities for DS in half.

I pretty much do DS's extracurricular activities and whatever therapies on the weekend by myself most of the time because DH works weekend nights. I work weekdays full time.

DH does all therapies during the weekdays if there are any. Summer is DH's busiest time because of DS needing all therapies. DH is the one that greets DS on and off the bus during summer school.

I sure would like to put DS in some STEM class like that. We barely got a new grant here where we live.

[Deleted]

Yeah I think I would continue fighting the battle. I am usually of the try it, and if it doesn't work you can change course. So I think I would try the camp like the teacher recommended with the carrot stick of Harry Potter world (can I come with you? lol). But I would also have a plan B in case it is too difficult to get him to go there.

I don't know how to address your H. With mine he was very hesitant to pursue hearing aids. Once I got the speech report that said all areas of speech were related to hearing loss, I decided to pursue it with or without him. So I made the appointments and went. I didn't discuss every detail or aspect with him. When we did talk about it I said well would you rather his ears look funny or he talks funny (I think I used better wording). Then when we did the IEP and they reiterated that speech was related to hearing loss and he heard them say DS could outgrow it, then he came around and when it helped which it has a lot, he says you were right. But its hard in the thick of things when you can't just point to one thing and say I was right because you don't see the immediate results the same way.

Giving up completely is not really an option (not that you said that you would). You just need a little more support from him and maybe from other people in your life too can help.

I do 99% of appointments with DS.  H has a more demanding job and is gone from 6 am-7:30 pm.  On weekends he gets super crabby going to the doctor or even a birthday party, so I don't ask him anymore.  Luckily my job is super flexible, and I have lots of sick time.

[mirandah]

mrsbuttinski, thanks. This is the conversation I continue to try and engage DH in. I have heard often that a common trait of successful students isn't their intelligence but their determination to continue trying at something that is hard. DS's teachers uniformly tell me he refuses to work hard on things that don't interest him. If something is hard- even something fun, like a game on his ipad, he'll give up. I've never seen him finish a book on his own that wasn't one of two or three select series. He'll play Minecraft for hours, but he'll start 30 difference worlds instead of working hard on just one. Handwriting is so hard for him we made accommodations for typing. Typing was proving difficult so he's back to writing.

DH just doesn't have urgency, doesn't get it, thinks I'm being a type-A alphamom. We've been through three psychologists- none were good fits. I am hopeful we can find someone with home DH also clicks with. In my gut I don't think DH will "get it" until he sees DS in action. Given DH's proclivity towards avoiding kid events, it may take awhile. He would absolutely love it if DS lived in his basement and sometimes I think he expects this to happen.

I don't think I'm going to prevail on Summer School, though we at least were able to talk about it calmly the other night. I may prevail on a week-long summer camp though since DS has said he wants to go, so at least it's something.

[akafred]

Feb 16, 2017 16:07:22 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

Feb 16, 2017 15:04:17 GMT -5 akafred said:

Yeah, I get it. This is our dynamic too. In the case of your summer school dilemma, I would really evaluate whether or not the STEM program is actually going to benefit him academically. If he can't or won't really attend it, then he might benefit more from the relief from stress from summer day camp more than the STEM program. Of course you'll also want to consider that he may be more active in the summer since it is earlier in the day. But if he doesn't want it and won't benefit from it anyway, I wouldn't push too hard just because it's theoretically academic.

With all due respect, Char isn't on spectrum. The piece mirandah,'s DS needs to work on is about more than academics. He's a STEM-kid and attending a STEM summer program would be setting him up with a group of like-minded peers who are also STEM-kids. It's a great opportunity. 

One of my dear friends has a bright STEM kid with HFA. He struggled socially all through elementary and middle school; it was difficult for mom to engage him in other kids. She sent him to CYT every summer so he could interact socially with other kids who shared his interests. Then he got into a magnet school for math and science and things got a lot better. He's at a college well known for STEM and original thinkers and having the time of his life. I don't think it would have clicked as easily had he not been given a group of like-minded peers with which to hone his social chops.

This is all part of what mirandah needs to weigh. If the summer program will benefit her son (I said academically but it really is, as you said, about more than academics) more than the usual camp experience then by all means fight for it. But if he won't gain anything because he won't engage in the program or the other kids, as she described the school program where he doesn't really attempt to engage unless he is the leader, then this particular program might not be worth the fight. What is a wonderful opportunity for some kids is unfortunately going to hold the next one back because it isn't the right fit. That isn't something we can determine, OP has to. But as I understand it the alternative is a summer camp experience that will also provide social opportunities. If it were the STEM program or home on the couch next to dad, yeah, no question there.

[mirandah]

Feb 16, 2017 16:21:02 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

mirandah ,

does your DS take after his dad maybe a little bit? So that maybe dad's self esteem is tied up in all this? Could he feel threatened or judged because you want to fix that parts of DS that are more like dad?

That was kind of DH's MO. I had to censor DH from time to time because he'd make it about him. OMG once he told DS ahead of a den meeting he was fighting me on that "Friends are over-rated". DH and I had a long talk about going forward together after that and things got better.

Oh for sure. 100%. DH has admitted he probably has a touch of something, but he doesn't see it as hindering his ability to parent DS, but rather he sees himself as an advocate for DS's needs and wants.  It's hard to get through to someone with this point of view. He appears to have had a lovely childhood (albeit single mom) but he was the star of every sports team he was on and did all the scouting there is. Lots of friends in college, but not so much now.

I do try to back off on asking him to do things that he obviously hates. Like @clarypax, said, it just isn't worth it to force him to do something that makes him so crabby.

[mirandah]

**UPDATE** I am happy to report I sent in DS's application for the summer STEM Academy this morning! I basically wore DH down and he gave in, and when he saw DS's reaction, he even agreed it was the right call. The craziest thing is that DS is fine with it! I thought he'd be livid, but it turns out he jumped at the chance to do something other than the day camp he usually goes to, which is poorly organized doesn't give the kids anything to do other than recess or computer lab.

I have to give him a lot of credit; if it were me and I was being sent to a brand new school, on a bus, where I knew no one, I'd be very nervous. His course list looks awesome- Garage Band, Bridges and Towers, Animatronics, Bicycling.

I'm a little apprehensive, especially about the bus. DS started riding the typical school bus this year and it has been fine, but he rides with his BFF. The reality is that the demographic of kids invited to this camp trends to misfit crew (kids who aren't grade level), and it'll be a long bus ride across the city. I'll probably go observe the classes the first day and make sure it's a good fit.

[yellowlilies]

I struggle with this too. I read so many pieces by adults with autism who seem to just hate their parents and the way they were raised. I don't want to sabatoge my relationship with my son but I also don't want to raise him to live in my basement. I have high expectations for him and struggle with figuring out where and when to challenge him.

[mrsbuttinski]

Feb 22, 2017 22:06:44 GMT -5 yellowlilies said:

I struggle with this too. I read so many pieces by adults with autism who seem to just hate their parents and the way they were raised. I don't want to sabatoge my relationship with my son but I also don't want to raise him to live in my basement. I have high expectations for him and struggle with figuring out where and when to challenge him.

There is a subset of adults with ASD who do hate their parents. I am very familiar from my days moderating fora that welcomed adults with Aspergers or who had a separate space for those parenting adult children with AS/HFA. They tend to fit a type- often they are just the grown up version of the "half-empty" kid who has never been able to take ownership or responsibility for his own actions and sees the world in the context that it's somebody else's fault. 

As a rule, these people belong to the 85% of adults with ASD who are not employed full-time and have copious amounts of free time in which to air their grievances online. Despite having average or better IQs and often considerable education, they are not thriving. It's very sad.

It's hard to find a balance, but over time I have learned from those who have gone ahead of me that it is my job to give DS the skills to be an independent adult even if that means our relationship can be challenged at times. I'd rather he was too busy with work and school to dwell on all the mistakes I made as a parent. 

[yellowlilies]

Feb 23, 2017 7:43:53 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

Feb 22, 2017 22:06:44 GMT -5 yellowlilies said:

I struggle with this too. I read so many pieces by adults with autism who seem to just hate their parents and the way they were raised. I don't want to sabatoge my relationship with my son but I also don't want to raise him to live in my basement. I have high expectations for him and struggle with figuring out where and when to challenge him.

There is a subset of adults with ASD who do hate their parents. I am very familiar from my days moderating fora that welcomed adults with Aspergers or who had a separate space for those parenting adult children with AS/HFA. They tend to fit a type- often they are just the grown up version of the "half-empty" kid who has never been able to take ownership or responsibility for his own actions and sees the world in the context that it's somebody else's fault. 

As a rule, these people belong to the 85% of adults with ASD who are not employed full-time and have copious amounts of free time in which to air their grievances online. Despite having average or better IQs and often considerable education, they are not thriving. It's very sad.

It's hard to find a balance, but over time I have learned from those who have gone ahead of me that it is my job to give DS the skills to be an independent adult even if that means our relationship can be challenged at times. I'd rather he was too busy with work and school to dwell on all the mistakes I made as a parent. 

Thank you- I'm glad you have found it to be a small percentage- sometimes I feel I'm doomed I do and doomed if I don't.

[spooko]

Feb 23, 2017 7:59:58 GMT -5 yellowlilies said:

Feb 23, 2017 7:43:53 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

There is a subset of adults with ASD who do hate their parents. I am very familiar from my days moderating fora that welcomed adults with Aspergers or who had a separate space for those parenting adult children with AS/HFA. They tend to fit a type- often they are just the grown up version of the "half-empty" kid who has never been able to take ownership or responsibility for his own actions and sees the world in the context that it's somebody else's fault. 

As a rule, these people belong to the 85% of adults with ASD who are not employed full-time and have copious amounts of free time in which to air their grievances online. Despite having average or better IQs and often considerable education, they are not thriving. It's very sad.

It's hard to find a balance, but over time I have learned from those who have gone ahead of me that it is my job to give DS the skills to be an independent adult even if that means our relationship can be challenged at times. I'd rather he was too busy with work and school to dwell on all the mistakes I made as a parent. 

Thank you- I'm glad you have found it to be a small percentage- sometimes I feel I'm doomed I do and doomed if I don't.

I think this is all parents, really. DS has some SNs and DD is NT and I feel equally fatalistic :/