DS anger issues advice

[sandandsea]

DS is 5 and in prek. He's generally a really good, sweet, healthy kid and loves playing with others. He is very energetic, plays hard, and then crashes. He is bossy, determined, and likes things to go his way. He also is very smart and articulate for his age. So overall I'm not really very concerned about him. However, when he gets mad, he explodes. Like yells, throws things, shouts horrible mean things (you're a bully, I'm never listening to you again, no, you're wrong, etc.) and will get physical (stomps, throws arms, or sometimes even hits and then runs off).

Obviously this behavior is appalling and I want to curtail it. I know he has big emotions and doesn't really know how to process his feelings. When he does it at home, he gets a timeout and cools off (sometimes after more screaming and banging on the door but he always chills out within 5 minutes). So is this in the realm of normal or should I be concerned?

So far I've kind of thought it's his age and he is getting better about controlling it but what should I be doing? DH and myself are not explosive people so this is crazy to us. (My brother is absolutely explosive but has zero influence on DS since they live states away).

ETA. He has had a great life and has never endured any kind of trauma and we have limited tv etc so he doesn't watch anything violent.

[mommyatty]

How often does this happen? If it's a very occasional thing, this sounds very normal. DD is 4 and in pre-k. The other day she had a fit because DH was going to read her stories instead of me. Which, btw, is our normal procedure. She screamed and yelled and threw everything off her bed and was just generally a crazy person.

We made her apologize and calm down before she got her stories. If it hadn't been bedtime, she would have been in timeout until she calmed down plus 4 minutes. Clock doesn't start until she stops having a fit.

This only happens once in a while. Like never more than twice in a month and usually less than once a month. She had gone months before this latest outburst. So I would say as long as it's fairly infrequent and getting even less frequent, you're okay. It's just big emotions and an inability yet to control their impulses.

[vasc]

Is he overtired or hungry in these moments?

[akafred]

DD has ADHD and anxiety so she isn't exactly within the range of "normal" but she had FAR more meltdowns at five than at four and previous. There is a normal brain rewiring that happens about age 5-6 that can cause an uptick in this kind of behaviors. Unless it is highly disruptive, I would say it is probably normal.

[xctsclrx]

Huge fits like that are normal at his age. When my Step sons were going through that I too thought it might be off. My mom (brother is 2 years older than oldest SS) talked me off the ledge. Said it is completely normal.If he wasn't able to calm himself down or screaming noises instead of words it would be different.

He is learning how to process his feelings and emotions. Unless it is multiple times a day I think you are okay. Also what other people said. Does he have these fits when he is tired or hungry?

Also when he hits the preteen hormone surge you will get a repeat of this behavior. Minus the hitting (hopefully) It'll last for a few months and then things calm down. We had to teach my oldest anger management techniques.

[akafred]

If you like to read, a great book is "The Whole Brain Child."

[mlee116]

I agree with PPs, occasional fits like this are normal. DS is 5 and every once in awhile, he has a huge fit. A huge majority of the time though, he is fine and deals very well with being disappointed/angry/etc. It almost always happens when he is super tired or has a lot of stimulation going on (and is coming off of the high of that activity). I figure that at 5, he has learned to deal with his emotions but when he is really tired, it becomes difficult for him to process everything. But hey, I can be cranky and out of it when I'm tired too!

If it was happening fairly often, I'd be concerned, but every in awhile, I think it's normal.

[sandandsea]

It's definitely more prone to happen when hungry or tired. It probably happens at least weekly sometimes more especially if hungry/tired. It usually only happens at home so it's not highly disruptive (timeout ensues and life goes back to normal). I know it's happened at school a couple of times but the teachers didn't seem too worried. Thank you all for reassuring me! Can't wait for the teenage episodes.

[sdlaura]

Another vote for totally normal. Also your definition of really mean things he shouts sounds pretty tame to me.

[2chatter]

I think boys are ... like this at this age. Neither girl was (interestingly middle at 9.5 is now...and oldest was similar at a similar age). I think boys hit the pretween girl behavior around 5 then get easy by 10 - where girls are easy around 5 and get way harder around 10. Bad spacing on our part that we just do happen to have 13, 10 and 5-6 happening in the same timeframe!

[k3am]

I have no advice on the kid front, but what you're describing was me from 7-10. I was a little shit. My mother was a saint for putting up with me. I did manage to grow out of it.

[mustardseed2007]

Assuming my kid is normal, it sounds normal to me. DS is not an every day fit thrower but when he throws them they can be epic. You might ask her teacher if she sees big fits often. If DS does it, he does it with us. He will not scream at his teachers.

[akafred]

Mar 16, 2017 9:20:15 GMT -5 sdlaura said:

Another vote for totally normal. Also your definition of really mean things he shouts sounds pretty tame to me.

Amen! I once got, "I'm going to find the judge and make him unadopt me and tell him I don't want you anymore, I never wanted you, even as a little baby I didn't want you."

[sandandsea]

Mar 16, 2017 9:20:15 GMT -5 sdlaura said:

Another vote for totally normal. Also your definition of really mean things he shouts sounds pretty tame to me.

I agree but he doesn't know REALLy mean things to say so he says the meanest things he knows. and he knows the right tone to make them mean.

[xctsclrx]

akafred, ouch your DD knows how to make it hurt.

If it makes you feel any better when I was around 6 I used to pretend my mom was dead and once my mom overheard me. I can't imagine how much that hurt her at the time. All I know is that she was mean and I didn't like her. I didn't know about the hours she was working plus the school and stressing about how to put food the table every day. there were a lot of issues there. Some things I didn't get until I became a mother and provider for my house.

Now we have a great relationship. Try not to let those things hurt too much. Mothers and daughters fight, but eventually become friends.

[akafred]

Mar 16, 2017 10:34:24 GMT -5 xctsclrx said:

akafred, ouch your DD knows how to make it hurt.

If it makes you feel any better when I was around 6 I used to pretend my mom was dead and once my mom overheard me. I can't imagine how much that hurt her at the time. All I know is that she was mean and I didn't like her. I didn't know about the hours she was working plus the school and stressing about how to put food the table every day. there were a lot of issues there. Some things I didn't get until I became a mother and provider for my house.

Now we have a great relationship. Try not to let those things hurt too much. Mothers and daughters fight, but eventually become friends.

Oh I am ok (most of the time). She has anxiety and that is part of it. I deal. But yeah she knows how to hit below the belt for sure!

[vvvvvfee]

this sounds a lot like my 4.5 year old.

do you do emotion coaching with him? greatergood.berkeley.edu/raising_happiness/post/emotion_coaching_one_of_the_most_important_parenting_practices_in_the_histo

basically, labeling the emotions he's experiencing and helping him work through them. and this would go along with a "time-in"-- you go somewhere quiet and talk about it. rather than "time out"-- which encourages kids to stuff their emotions rather than feel them and then deal with them. so you talk about why he's so frustrated/angry, and brainstorm ways that he can deal with the emotion rather than lashing out and yelling/throwing/hitting.

it's not until age 6 or 7 that kids can feel more than one emotion at a time-- so 6 or 7 before they can feel the anger, and also be able to tell themselves to calm down instead of just exploding.

we also do mediation with DS1- just brief stuff, like practicing sitting quietly and taking deep breaths.

we've also suggested to DS1 some acceptable ways to physically lash out that don't involve hurting people or property-- punching a pillow, stomping his foot, going into the bathroom and yelling.

i'd also recommend the books no-drama discipline (by the same authors as the whole-brain child) and how to talk so little kids will listen.

[sandandsea]

Mar 16, 2017 12:40:55 GMT -5 vvvvvfee said:

this sounds a lot like my 4.5 year old.

do you do emotion coaching with him? greatergood.berkeley.edu/raising_happiness/post/emotion_coaching_one_of_the_most_important_parenting_practices_in_the_histo

basically, labeling the emotions he's experiencing and helping him work through them. and this would go along with a "time-in"-- you go somewhere quiet and talk about it. rather than "time out"-- which encourages kids to stuff their emotions rather than feel them and then deal with them. so you talk about why he's so frustrated/angry, and brainstorm ways that he can deal with the emotion rather than lashing out and yelling/throwing/hitting.

it's not until age 6 or 7 that kids can feel more than one emotion at a time-- so 6 or 7 before they can feel the anger, and also be able to tell themselves to calm down instead of just exploding.

we also do mediation with DS1- just brief stuff, like practicing sitting quietly and taking deep breaths.

we've also suggested to DS1 some acceptable ways to physically lash out that don't involve hurting people or property-- punching a pillow, stomping his foot, going into the bathroom and yelling.

i'd also recommend the books no-drama discipline (by the same authors as the whole-brain child) and how to talk so little kids will listen.

Yes we essentially do this but there is no talking (or listening) when he's like this so the time out/cool down has to happen first. Then we discuss the deeper issues as needed. Honestly it's mostly because he wanted x and we told him no because of y and he doesn't like being told no.

[jlaok]

My DS went through the same thing at that age. He would get so angry to the point that we'd have to physically hold him down until he calmed down. I think it was just a "growing pains" sort of situation because we didn't do anything to prevent the fits from happening he just sort of grew out of them.

[twocents6708]

I feel like I could have written the same post for my 5 year old daughter. As alarming as it is for me, I think it is somewhat normal and I contribute some of it to temperament. We have done some of the same things mentioned, like practicing deep breathing, labeling emotions, time in, etc. I also second the book recommendation for the "The Whole Brain Child" by Dan Siegal.

[traveltheworld]

I think it's totally normal too!

DS can get like this - what we've found has helped is giving him other words and other tools to use when he is angry. For example, we tell him that when he angry, instead of saying "I hate you, I'm never going to be your friend!", he can say "I'm very very mad at you, I don't like you right now! Don't come near me!"

In terms of the physical, we tell DS to throw cushions and pillows around when he is angry. Our rule is just no throwing of hard things.

We've also taught him that he needs to ask for help to calm down. I read somewhere that big emotions are really scary for little kids, and if they don't know that, they act out even more. So we tell DS that when he gets really angry, he might be scared about how angry he is getting, and that's ok - just tell us, and one of us will help him calm down (usually by hugging him, or stroke his hair, or some form of calming physical contact).

FWIW - I was an explosive child/teenager. I once got so angry that I jumped out of a moving car. Happy to say - I'm reasonably normal as an adult

[librarychica]

My daughter is the same age as your son and we have had a lot of this -- so much so that we actually went to a couple of sessions of play therapy. Our concern was that it seemed to go beyond what was normal and she would lose it to the point that it was happening almost daily and she it seemed like she couldn't calm herself. Occasional outbursts sound very normal to me.

We didn't click with the therapist and are looking into a new one, but a few things that we have tried seem to be helping a bit.

We do the emotion labeing thing PP mentioned. We have always tried to do this and it has always been a good practice, but I think I was allowing her too much leeway in that once she was unreachable I would still be there, trying to do the heavy lifting for her. I can't. They're her emotions and she of course can have them but she isn't going to scream at me. She was learning that she could scream and insult and threaten and I would take it until I (sometimes) lost my shit and yelled and back and she felt awful cause I had yelled at her and I felt awful for yelling at her and it was just a spiraling cycle of suck. So now I will sit and help her label her emotions and offer to help her with calming techniques but if she starts up with the shrieking or insults -- I'm out. I remind her that I love her and to let me know when she is ready to behave calmly and then I walk out of the room.

Once she is calm we proceed with the emotion talk and the problem solving. She is starting to calm down faster.

If we can catch her before she gets to that point, we are having more and more success with breathing exercises. In the past she would just flat refuse. I don't know if it was having an outsider talk then up or a maturity thing or what but few breaths is becoming a thing. We practice when she is calm by sticking a small stuffie on her belly and asking her to move it up and down with her breath.

I also started keeping a journal of her behaviors to look for patterns. Now this might not be necessary for y'all, but it helped H and I to key in and be more aware when we started going down that path.

[liziz]

Mar 16, 2017 10:12:58 GMT -5 akafred said:

Mar 16, 2017 9:20:15 GMT -5 sdlaura said:

Another vote for totally normal. Also your definition of really mean things he shouts sounds pretty tame to me.

Amen! I once got, "I'm going to find the judge and make him unadopt me and tell him I don't want you anymore, I never wanted you, even as a little baby I didn't want you."

This is why adoptive parents are better people than I am. I'm not sure I could handle this. A friend adopted a toddler from (he was 3.5 when he came to this country) and he says "I want my favorite mommy" when upset with her, and that might be the end of my ability to parent.

[akafred]

Mar 17, 2017 13:36:22 GMT -5 liziz said:

Mar 16, 2017 10:12:58 GMT -5 akafred said:

Amen! I once got, "I'm going to find the judge and make him unadopt me and tell him I don't want you anymore, I never wanted you, even as a little baby I didn't want you."

This is why adoptive parents are better people than I am. I'm not sure I could handle this. A friend adopted a toddler from (he was 3.5 when he came to this country) and he says "I want my favorite mommy" when upset with her, and that might be the end of my ability to parent.

Eh. I mean it sucks, but it is just part of raising a kid. One who wasn't adopted might scream, "I wish daddy would divorce you and take me with him!" (my sister pulled that one) or "I hope you and daddy die so I can live with grandma!" or "I'm going to run away and join the circus!" They don't actually mean it. They just hurt so they lash out. You just deal with it the best you can.

[mommyatty]

We could have a whole Mean Things My Kid Has Said thread!

DD got mad the other day and told DH "You need to get a job so Mommy can stay home with us because you are terrible at being a daddy!" And she REGULARLY kicked people out of the family until about 6 months ago. "You are NOT my family" was one of her favorite angry outbursts.

[k3am]

akafred, has the right mindset.

Things I recall yelling at my mother as a child. Or at least remember her reminding me that I yelled at her as a child:

... why can't you be young and pretty like all the other mommies? (My mom was older when she had me. Most people thought she was my grandmother)
...I wish you had died instead of daddy.

Those are the two she constantly rehashes.

Don't be that parent who rehashes 25+ years later. You make your kid feel guilty for something they have NO ability to correct or make up for.

[xctsclrx]

mommyatty, Is it bad that I laughed and then did the "#notmyfamily" in my head.