I tried getting her to sleep first but she wasn't falling asleep. Then MH quietly walked O in but he wasn't falling asleep because E was fussing the whole time. O was loud whispering, "mommy, what you doin? Mommy, E is cryin. Mommy, I want water. Mommy, mommy, mommy....."
So then I left the room and tried to settle her in my bedroom. Well that didn't work either. She was crying or fussing or just awake. It took nearly 3 HOURS before we both finally fell asleep in my bed. Ughhhhh
I have to try again and assume last night was an anomaly. But tonight I'm going to let O fall asleep in our bed and just transfer him to his bed later on.
Post by sophiegrace on Apr 25, 2017 13:21:34 GMT -5
So things come in threes, right? My third thing last week was M's sleep. I felt like I was being hazed. And I begged for the four month sleep regression to come back because even wake ups every 45 minutes were better than whatever in the world was going on last week and this weekend. I'm still confused.
H and I bit the bullet and bought the bigger dockatot. I was worried because it's obscenely priced and the reviews are mehh compared to the baby one. But, after everything we just weren't ready to get her in the crib and didn't feel safe enough just putting her between us. We tried it for the first time last night.
She woke up three times last night to eat. And didn't wake up until ten AM. 13 hours.
Wanted: someone to come sleep train my child. I said I wasn't going down that road quite yet but I guess I kind of am. He doesn't need to nurse motn that we have figured out, but I do not handle well the frustration of getting him back to sleep. I get so angry that H takes over and I can't fall asleep.
Wanted: someone to come sleep train my child. I said I wasn't going down that road quite yet but I guess I kind of am. He doesn't need to nurse motn that we have figured out, but I do not handle well the frustration of getting him back to sleep. I get so angry that H takes over and I can't fall asleep.
I haven't contributed yet to this thread bc I we have the worst sleepers but I will say that YES my mom already knows she is responsible for spending the weekend with them soon and sleep training them while I am not here. Can not listen to crying, makes my blood pressure rise.
Wanted: someone to come sleep train my child. I said I wasn't going down that road quite yet but I guess I kind of am. He doesn't need to nurse motn that we have figured out, but I do not handle well the frustration of getting him back to sleep. I get so angry that H takes over and I can't fall asleep.
I haven't contributed yet to this thread bc I we have the worst sleepers but I will say that YES my mom already knows she is responsible for spending the weekend with them soon and sleep training them while I am not here. Can not listen to crying, makes my blood pressure rise.
Ya know it's not even the crying in this house. I can handle that especially if I understand the means to the end, but this baby is not a cry it out baby. I haven't even tried because I know he will only escalate and not calm himself down. Frankly he would be the best cosleeping baby. If he could turn over and touch me I am certain he would sleep through the night, unfortunately we are not good cosleeping parents. H is too wiggly and I don't sleep if someone is touching me.
starbuck27 sorry to hear about the colds. I'm at the acceptance phase too. I've accepted that E's poor sleep is directly related to her reflux. So now I just feel bad for her rather than resent her.
So as I mentioned above, my theory is that reflux is the biggest problem with E's sleep. After I put her down, she wakes up groaning and moaning and eventually starts crying. Even if I pick her up, she's sometimes inconsolable. She has many wet burps or spit up. Sometimes she's writhing. Sometimes I just hold her up for a long time and she eventually relaxes. Sometimes I have to nurse her to calm her because it soothes her throat. I think she uses that to soothe her throat all night long hence why co sleeping is the only thing that's keeping is alive.
Anyway, we have her 6 month appt next Friday at which time I'll bring it up. But when we talked about it at her 4 month appt the ped said she recommends diet changes if it's bad enough and often doesn't prescribe meds. So I decided to take the next 9 days and eliminate dairy, the biggest trigger for baby reflux.
I'm very sad because my favorite foods include cereal/milk for breakfast and ice cream for dessert. Like, everyday. And obviously cheese and butter and eggs are EVERYWHERE.
BUT, if I see any improvement in her sleep it's worth it. I was going to start sleep training last night but can't do it until I investigate this reflux issue. So if the diet thing doesn't work, I'll ask about meds.
TL:DR I think my baby's reflux is causing her sleep problems so I'm trying a dairy free diet.
Post by sophiegrace on Apr 26, 2017 10:52:23 GMT -5
hangry let me know if you want any advice. Eggs are fine. Look for casein and whey as well. If it's a true dairy allergy right now it'll be at the protein level she's reacting to. Things improved by week 2-3 as the proteins finally left my BM and continued to get better from there as is worked its way out of her system.
Post by sophiegrace on Apr 26, 2017 10:55:41 GMT -5
aggiebug I know exactly what you mean. CIO over here would be never ending. How did you figure out that you didn't need to nurse MOTN? M still nurses 2-3 times, and even though her eyes are closed within a minute or two she still actively drinks for about 10-15 minutes.
hangry That has got to be so rough, it's probably a never ending cycle bc she nurses to feel better and then the reflux only persists. I'm sorry you have to give up dairy, even at my "cleanest" eating I was never able to give up cheese. But if it helps her I am sure you'll find it's worth it for te limited time you'll need to do it. We'll have a big cheese and ice cream party for you when you're done BFing! As far as the cheese, I really don't know if this helps you but if you're craving pizza the one thing I found to enjoy was Daiya pizza, it was tasty enough that I really didn't even miss the "real cheese"
aggiebug I know exactly what you mean. CIO over here would be never ending. How did you figure out that you didn't need to nurse MOTN? M still nurses 2-3 times, and even though her eyes are closed within a minute or two she still actively drinks for about 10-15 minutes.
Not aggiebug but I just learned that Adeline doesn't need to either. Is that really consistent, normal sucking or is she slower and lazier about it? Have you tried instead picking her up and rocking her and would she go back down? Not that you want to start that habit either but you may be able to gauge if she actually is hungry or if she's looking for comfort.
ETA let me clarify, AV is still eating once MOTN - the 2/3am feeding I believe she needs. It's the 10:00 and 1:00 feedings that I know she doesn't need.
jubilantsquirrel It's a little different here bc I am bottle feeding so I can see what they've drank and what they haven't. But also like I said to Sophiegrace I saw that AV wasn't drinking much, so then a couple nights I tried picking her up and rocking her and she fell asleep that way. But at the 2/3am one rocking her wasn't doing it, she will toss and turn and toss and turn and whine until she gets the bottle.
So I'm not sure if that helps but I'd try other things first and the offer the breast maybe? Or if he's taking a bottle maybe one night offer bottle just to see if you can determine what he's really drinking or not.
Post by jubilantsquirrel on Apr 26, 2017 12:02:58 GMT -5
kleigh, maybe I'll have MH go in there and see if he can get him back to sleep first. He was going in and giving him 2 bottles at night (around 10/10:30 and midnight) last week, but he started refusing bottles again over the weekend. But when he was taking them he would only take about 2oz each time.
jubilantsquirrel Lets see what the other BFing mamas say but yeah, that's what Adeline was doing. She downs her last bottle of the night (5 oz at 6:30p) and she downs the 2am bottle (5pz) but only took 1-2 oz the other times
ETA last night she only looked for that 3am bottle (only time she woke). Also Alec is stuck in sipping hell. He wakes every 2 hours, takes <1oz and goes back to sleep and does this all night.
Post by jubilantsquirrel on Apr 26, 2017 12:20:53 GMT -5
Owen and Alec seem to be sharing MOTN wake up notes with each other. I don't know exactly how much he's getting when he nurses, but I don't think it's much since he doesn't nurse for too long before passing out again. I'll have to try to pay closer attention to see if he nurses longer during other wake ups to see if maybe he's eating more at a certain time.
jubilantsquirrel is it possible he is comfort sucking? I always offer the boob to J but he gives me pretty good stretches between wake ups so I'm assuming he's got to be hungry. And he always falls asleep pretty quickly afterwards.
It's definitely possible. He does a lot of that in the evenings when I get home from work.
Honestly, I'm just doing what I did with DS1, which I realize probably isn't the best approach since they're two completely different babies. DS1 would easily go 6-7 hours at night before waking up, so it was obvious he needed to nurse.
Thanks sophiegrace! I didn't want to tag you bc I know your thumb makes it difficulty to comment. I read somewhere that egg was included, so in happy to hear it's not! I figured the ped would say to test it for longer, but I didn't even think to try this until last night. So we'll see what happens in 9 days and probably continue for a little longer after that. And thank you kleigh, I'll have to save that pizza thing!
I'm really hoping this doesn't last long and that she outgrows her reflux soon.
Thanks sophiegrace! I didn't want to tag you bc I know your thumb makes it difficulty to comment. I read somewhere that egg was included, so in happy to hear it's not! I figured the ped would say to test it for longer, but I didn't even think to try this until last night. So we'll see what happens in 9 days and probably continue for a little longer after that. And thank you kleigh, I'll have to save that pizza thing!
I'm really hoping this doesn't last long and that she outgrows her reflux soon.
A lot of what I've read on dairy intolerance states that intestinal maturity starts around six months and that by 9-12 months it should start to be strong enough to digest it properly. I'm reeeeally hoping we're closer to the 9 month mark, but terrified to get to the point of trying stuff in case it doesn't go over well.
Let me know if you want any food suggestions. I get certain cravings occasionally, but for the most part it's gotten really easy and just a way of life. Would do it a million times over.
aggiebug I know exactly what you mean. CIO over here would be never ending. How did you figure out that you didn't need to nurse MOTN? M still nurses 2-3 times, and even though her eyes are closed within a minute or two she still actively drinks for about 10-15 minutes.
Not aggiebug but I just learned that Adeline doesn't need to either. Is that really consistent, normal sucking or is she slower and lazier about it? Have you tried instead picking her up and rocking her and would she go back down? Not that you want to start that habit either but you may be able to gauge if she actually is hungry or if she's looking for comfort.
ETA let me clarify, AV is still eating once MOTN - the 2/3am feeding I believe she needs. It's the 10:00 and 1:00 feedings that I know she doesn't need.
Thank you! I haven't tried just trying to soothe her because I'm lazy and it's just so easy to pop her on and back off again once she's completely out. I think I'll try your suggestions this Saturday when I don't worry as much about keeping her quiet and not waking H just in case it fires her up.
sophiegrace it's a lot of things that have lead to me figuring it out. In reality I will say he is down to one must feed a night but it's really more early morning than motn. The big indicator is there have been times we know he is waking but not hungry (based on timing generally), H takes him downstairs to sleep on the couch and let me get some sleep. C will still wake around 12 and 3 but H can just pop his pacifier in quick and he is out before he fully wakes up. Those nights I don't nurse until 4ish instead of 12 & 3.
jubilantsquirrel H still nurses every 2 hours or so overnight. I'm pretty confident that he still needa those feeds because he has a full feed each time (not just a few minutes of comfort sucking) and he is on the lower end of the "normal" weight gain. Sometimes he'll wake early and if I'm questioning whether or not he is actually hungry I'll give him a cuddle and pat his butt. He'll either let out a fart and settle again or start full crying (I'll let him nurse).
IIRC, he was in the 20th percentile for weight at his 4 month check up. I'm going to pay close attention tonight to see how long he nurses for. I'm usually just focusing on not falling asleep myself so I'm honestly not sure if 5 minutes or 15. If he needs to nurse that often then that's fine, I'll deal, but if not then I want to send MH in to see if he can't sooth him back to sleep.
jubilantsquirrel To danib 's point, I really think you'll know... If he doesn't take to other comfort measures easily then I'd stick with the feedings too. Obviously that's what we're doing with Alec even though he doesn't even drink much - he just doesn't settle down with anything else (back patting, rocking, switching positions, paci) - he cries, LOUD if he doesn't get it. Alhough she's so little, Adeline is very predictable on all accounts and it is very clear when she's hungry (bc she spits a paci out and starts to scream) and when she is just looking for a bottle to fall back asleep on (she will take the paci and she will not really cry, more fuss, until you change her position or rock her).
How do you know when they don't need to feed MOTN anymore? DS2 is still waking up every 2 hours, pretty much on the dot, and he nurses every time.
Ds would nurse every time if I let him it's definitely a comfort and tbh it's easiest, but I do feel like it's not always best long term. I explained above how I know he doesn't need to eat. If I pick him up he almost always starts rooting but if I put a pacifier it generally relaxes immediately so I know he is mostly soothing. If I let him he will still do a full nurse session. Oh and if he skips a feed at night he doesn't make it up during the day.
I also pay attention to the clock. If it's been less than 3 hrs I know it's just a wake up and not hunger so I won't feed him.
I say all this but it's not a hard no. I work hard to make something else work, but if he escalates I will nurse.
sophiegrace what's the best alternative milk for cereal. I normally use skim so it's very cold and thin. Anything like that?
Unsweetened almond, the one that is 30-35 calories per serving. It cooks well too. I've never tried the flavored ones, but I'm going to check the chocolate one's label! (Thanks waitwhat for the suggestion!)
Post by jubilantsquirrel on Apr 27, 2017 10:54:36 GMT -5
starbuck27, MH definitely wants to help. I had him try to go in a couple of times last night and he was able to get him settled, but then he was up again about 30 minutes later. I've also never been able to get him to take a paci, which is also frustrating.
starbuck27, MH definitely wants to help. I had him try to go in a couple of times last night and he was able to get him settled, but then he was up again about 30 minutes later. I've also never been able to get him to take a paci, which is also frustrating.
Pacis man I love'em and I hate them. C screams when it falls out and he isn't quite asleep, and when he wakes up and he doesn't have it. But it does work to get him back asleep. Sorry he is being a stinker for you. Do you have white noise? I know sometimes if you use that in your bedtime routine and they wake up to it it helps them fall back asleep without you.
starbuck27 , MH definitely wants to help. I had him try to go in a couple of times last night and he was able to get him settled, but then he was up again about 30 minutes later. I've also never been able to get him to take a paci, which is also frustrating.
Pacis man I love'em and I hate them. C screams when it falls out and he isn't quite asleep, and when he wakes up and he doesn't have it. But it does work to get him back asleep. Sorry he is being a stinker for you. Do you have white noise? I know sometimes if you use that in your bedtime routine and they wake up to it it helps them fall back asleep without you.
We use a fan as white noise, but I've been wondering if it's enough. It's a noisy fan, not one of those fancy quiet ones.
I was able to put him down awake buy drowsy last night at bedtime and he put himself to sleep no problem.
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