We have a new hire in our department. Entry level position, recent college grad. She reports to someone who reports to me. She accepted our offer a month ago & started 2 days ago.
She has a long commute on a train line with limited options. The earliest she can arrive is right on time and the latest train she can leave on is at 8pm which would get her home after 9:30pm (our day technically ends at 5pm, although we stay as long as we need to). The second latest train out would require her to leave at least 20 minutes early each day.
We are client facing, our work is time sensitive, and we have daily deliverables in addition to fire drills that come up regularly. We cover for each other, so if the responsible person isn't around, the rest of the team jumps in to help. She is in training in an area she knows nothing about and is shadowing a team member who is leaving in 2 months.
She's ostensibly looking for a place near work, but no eta and really, no apparent urgency on her part. Of course, on her first day, she asked her manager for permission to leave early every day.
I already told her manager what to tell her, but I wonder what you think b/c I never know whether I'm a pushover or if my expectations are too high. What would be your response?
This is hard. I would think that it would be better to take care of employees rather than punching a clock if and only if the job can allow it. However, leaving early everyday is not going to work. I would suggest something along the lines Leaving early on M W F and late T TH, or coming in late and leaving late. This is especially true since she is in training. If I was in her position I would only ask to leave early on Fridays after busting my butt all week.
I think getting home at 930 more than once a week would motivate the employee to find a place.
Personal beliefs and work ethic:
Asking to leave early during the training period equals red flag. During a training period you are going to have to suck it up sometimes. 930 is not 2 am.
Even if she was a parent I would think that during the training period she should not be asking for special treatment.
Post by justcheckingin73 on May 18, 2017 8:24:58 GMT -5
I find it strange that there are limited options for trains but I live in the Chicago area and the trains run every hour (or more?) during the weekday. Not the issue though. This is a tough one. Assuming she knew what the train schedule was and the work hours before she started, I'm not sure why she's all of a sudden saying she needs to leave early. This should have been something she figured out before starting. I feel like a compromise is in order, similar to what xctsclrx suggested. If she is able to leave early every day, not only will work not get done, team members might get annoyed that they are covering for her. And being just out of school, I feel like she would want to put in some extra hours. Plus, she doesn't have to work until the last train departs, she could go out for dinner, runs some errands, etc.
That is hard. But honestly, it's kind of her problem how she gets to work on time. I'm assuming she was aware of what her hours would be before she started? I like the suggestion of alternating leaving early and working late. I also agree that its kind of a red flag that she's already asking for special treatment. How does her manager feel about her working late/leaving early? Do they feel any sympathy to let her leave early to accommodate her commute? Also, could she work through lunch to make up for leaving early?
justcheckingin73--I've spent a fair amount of time in & around Chicago, and this isn't like the Metra or el. Think more like Amtrak. She lives in a neighboring city to where the office is located, not a suburb.
Post by somebabiesmom on May 18, 2017 8:34:27 GMT -5
I, the person with no managing experience at all, would evaluate all the other employees' situations looking for similar circumstances now or ever. If any one of them had the same types of difficulties, I'd offer the new employee whatever accommodation the other employee was given. If any of them currently have similar circumstances and I didn't want to start granting flex work schedules to everyone, I'd say, "hell, no." But the fact is that every employee you have would love to flex their schedule, so if you don't want to open that door - don't open it. Leave it to new employee to solve on her own for the reasons you indicated above (i.e., not just b/c you don't want everyone asking for flex schedules). If she doesn't like it, she can move or find a new job.
Uh, no. Sorry. I guess I am an asshole but it is TOTALLY inappropriate to start a brand new job and ask for a change in work hours that will affect other employees and/or clients. She needs a car, a new apartment, a car pool buddy, or a new job. Meanwhile she needs to suck it up and work appropriate hours.
Have you made concessions for other employees? If so, then I would let her leave early with the understanding that this is a temporary arrangement. If you haven’t allowed other employees to do the same then I wouldn’t feel badly about telling her no. +1 to someone else who thinks that it is totally inappropriate to ask to leave early on your first day at a new job. Holy red flag.
Uh, no. Sorry. I guess I am an asshole but it is TOTALLY inappropriate to start a brand new job and ask for a change in work hours that will affect other employees and/or clients. She needs a car, a new apartment, a car pool buddy, or a new job. Meanwhile she needs to suck it up and work appropriate hours.
This is where I am. You start a new job, it's your responsibility to get yourself there for the hours needed, not asking your employer to adjust to your schedule.
We have crazy flex here if we work from home. But people who start or consult in one of the offices cannot flex. Chalk it up to "life isn't fair, if you don't like it don't take the job".
I am just beginning to recover from a consultant who requested lots of special treatment and against my better judgment I indulged. REGRET. Be the hard a$$ you are. From the start.
And anecdote to make you feel better - I worked in an ops center because they had space for me. Many women there walked a mile to a bus, took it to another bus with a walk, to another bus...no matter the weather. No one suggested nor did they seek special schedules. Their commutes were at least 2 hours each way. Some of them also worked another job. I think about them when my privileged directs ask for things that strike me as excessive.
Post by traveltheworld on May 18, 2017 9:19:37 GMT -5
It's her problem to solve, not yours. She cannot expect you to make accommodations for a new employee. I understand she may not be urgently looking for a place yet as she may not know if this job will work out or not, but again, that's her problem.
Not entirely similar, but I just started a new job where, if I don't want to spend an hour in traffic, would require me to leave at either before 4 or after 6. I've chosen to leave after 6, even though I'm quite senior and could easily do what I do at home. I may start leaving early once I've established myself and my team is more comfortable with the idea that they can reach me even if I'm not physically in the office, but I definitely wouldn't do that in the first few months.
It's her problem to solve, not yours. She cannot expect you to make accommodations for a new employee. I understand she may not be urgently looking for a place yet as she may not know if this job will work out or not, but again, that's her problem.
Not entirely similar, but I just started a new job where, if I don't want to spend an hour in traffic, would require me to leave at either before 4 or after 6. I've chosen to leave after 6, even though I'm quite senior and could easily do what I do at home. I may start leaving early once I've established myself and my team is more comfortable with the idea that they can reach me even if I'm not physically in the office, but I definitely wouldn't do that in the first few months.
EXACTLY! She may prove herself to be a very valuable employee who can handle the workload with adjusted hours, but that does NOT happen on the first day and I consider that an enormous red flag. She should have discussed it in the interview/offer/negotiation process, or she should spend at least the next 2-3 months (at LEAST) proving herself before she asks for such favors.
justcheckingin73 --I've spent a fair amount of time in & around Chicago, and this isn't like the Metra or el. Think more like Amtrak. She lives in a neighboring city to where the office is located, not a suburb.
It's her problem to solve, not yours. She cannot expect you to make accommodations for a new employee. I understand she may not be urgently looking for a place yet as she may not know if this job will work out or not, but again, that's her problem.
Not entirely similar, but I just started a new job where, if I don't want to spend an hour in traffic, would require me to leave at either before 4 or after 6. I've chosen to leave after 6, even though I'm quite senior and could easily do what I do at home. I may start leaving early once I've established myself and my team is more comfortable with the idea that they can reach me even if I'm not physically in the office, but I definitely wouldn't do that in the first few months.
EXACTLY! She may prove herself to be a very valuable employee who can handle the workload with adjusted hours, but that does NOT happen on the first day and I consider that an enormous red flag. She should have discussed it in the interview/offer/negotiation process, or she should spend at least the next 2-3 months (at LEAST) proving herself before she asks for such favors.
Thanks for this--this is where my mind is. I'm interested in the responses that have asked whether I extend this option to other employees. Is that relevant here? Serious question--do you put any weight on how long employees have been there and whether they've "proven" themselves when deciding whether to grant these requests? Like, whether they've shown they can be relied upon to complete their work doing the day & whether they take ownership of their responsibilities? That's even putting aside that we are basically on-call for our clients so even if she leaves thinking everything is in order, something can come up 2 minutes later that derails the rest of the day for her teammates.
I don't think the "as long as they get their work done who cares when they do it" mindset works for all positions, particularly when your business deals with client relationship management.
Uh, no. Sorry. I guess I am an asshole but it is TOTALLY inappropriate to start a brand new job and ask for a change in work hours that will affect other employees and/or clients. She needs a car, a new apartment, a car pool buddy, or a new job. Meanwhile she needs to suck it up and work appropriate hours.
If teleworking could be an option I would offer that, but only max one day a week, and only after she has proven herself for at least a few months. But it doesn't sound like teleworking is an option in your environment.
If she doesn't like getting home late, then move. She needs motivation, well she got it.
Post by frozenpeas on May 18, 2017 11:24:50 GMT -5
I appreciate all the feedback.
I told her manager yesterday to tell her this isn't possible at this time. It's important for her to be in the office during work hours both for the good of the team and for her own benefit. A big part of the job is figuring out how to handle issues she can't plan for & it wouldn't be unusual for those to come up at the end of the day. She has a unique opportunity to work alongside the current employee for the next few months before he leaves and she should take advantage of that while she can, before she's left to handle it all on her own. I suggested he tell her we can revisit this in 30 days (or 4 weeks, or whatever he thinks appropriate) if it's still an issue for her at that time.
As for what he actually told her, who knows. I suspect it wasn't exactly the above and he more or less said "Management said no, not until you've been here longer". She wasn't satisfied and escalated to me, so I'm scheduled for a call with her today.
As an aside, I left it to her manager's discretion to let her go early on a case by case basis if a day was particularly slow. But I wanted that to be the exception and not something she came to expect.
I, the person with no managing experience at all, would evaluate all the other employees' situations looking for similar circumstances now or ever. If any one of them had the same types of difficulties, I'd offer the new employee whatever accommodation the other employee was given. If any of them currently have similar circumstances and I didn't want to start granting flex work schedules to everyone, I'd say, "hell, no." But the fact is that every employee you have would love to flex their schedule, so if you don't want to open that door - don't open it. Leave it to new employee to solve on her own for the reasons you indicated above (i.e., not just b/c you don't want everyone asking for flex schedules). If she doesn't like it, she can move or find a new job.
I agree with what somebabiesmom, and that is with my HR hat on.
She escalated it to you? As if you are going to give her another answer? Wow, Another red flag to me. She has been there for less than a week correct? Wow Just Wow.
It's her responsibility to figure out her transportation. If her only option is taking an 8pm train, I guess she's going to have to figure out something to do for 3 hours after she gets off work.
She escalated it to you? As if you are going to give her another answer? Wow, Another red flag to me. She has been there for less than a week correct? Wow Just Wow.
Does your company do a probationary period?
This. Huge red flag. Apparently there's also a good chance she's riding on the crazy train in addition to the real train.
Post by saltypearl on May 18, 2017 12:03:35 GMT -5
If I were her I would have made the accommodations part of my conditions of taking the position. That said I am likely in a better economic climate. I don't know the "no urgency on her part" statement. This feels like a stretch. Appropriate housing can be very difficult.
That said I would stay firm in the "You have to be here during business hours".
frozenpeas - yeah...but....would you really go to your bosses boss for a personal accommodation the first week? Seems...kind of entitled to me. But we are a tightly run org that involves phrases like "skip level" and "outside protocol" for conversations.
Apparently I'm the exception here, but I feel like getting in on time and leaving 20 minutes early is pretty reasonable, unless there is something that absolutely needs to go out that day, and also if she can, say, cut her lunch or other breaks short to make up the 20 minutes.
I don't think I would have asked for that accommodation right away at a new job, but that's a huge quality of life issue if she's not getting home until 9:30 pm everyday.
I work in San Diego, though, which is known for being a little more laid back in terms of work hours, and my industry is one where I can sort of come and go a bit as long as I'm getting my work done and checking my phone regularly.
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