Can we discuss Light it Up Blue?

[mack]

I love the idea of the campaign, but it seems to be a product of Autism Speaks. That organization makes me uncomfortable because I feel like they are too focused on "a cure." However, I want to participate in getting the word out about autism awareness and acceptance. Do we suck it up and go with Light it Up Blue, or are there other campaigns and ways to celebrate World Autism Awareness Day and Month?

[hopecounts]

Diary covers alternatives fairly well.
adiaryofamom.wordpress.com/tag/autism-acceptance/

[mcribster]

A lot of the biomed sites are calling it Autism Action month. I can't find much on it now that is not on FB: www.tacanow.org/ways-to-help/autism-awareness/

Chez Mcrib will not be lighting it up blue. We are all well aware now that this is an epidemic.

[mack]

Yeah, I want to raise acceptance and awareness that there are all sorts of people on the spectrum.

[mcribster]

I want to know WTF we are going to do about the increase in these disabilities (33 percent in 2 years and that is data on way older kids than ours). In 10 years I think we'll all be aware- no need to help that along. Why is this happening and how are we going to fix it. That's where I'm putting my time and effort.

[mrsbuttinski]

I just can't. I'm over it. I've come to agree with T. S. Elliot- April is the cruelest month.

I really don't think we need an awareness campaign- Autism Speaks has scared the shit out of parents everywhere. Along the way, they have been insulting to those who have ASD.

Autism Speaks does little for people who actually have autism. They pay their executives princely sums, randomly waste electricity with light displays, have raised "awareness" by portraying ASD as a fate worse than death and do next to nothing to actually help people who have autism. Where is their funding for assistive technology for those who are nonverbal? How about social skills camps to teach kids the skills they'll need to navigate the NT world? Where's the funding for vocational programming and workplaces to eradicate the fact that 85% of the less impaired and atypical adults on spectrum have full time employment? And what about housing and life span supports for those who don't have the skills to be fully independent?

[mack]

Mar 31, 2015 8:58:26 GMT -5 mcribster said:

I want to know WTF we are going to do about the increase in these disabilities (33 percent in 2 years and that is data on way older kids than ours). In 10 years I think we'll all be aware- no need to help that along. Why is this happening and how are we going to fix it. That's where I'm putting my time and effort.

But there is a lot of controversy over whether the incidence is truly increasing, or that clinicians are becoming more aware and getting better at diagnosing. 

[mcribster]

Mar 31, 2015 9:00:35 GMT -5 mack said:

Mar 31, 2015 8:58:26 GMT -5 mcribster said:

I want to know WTF we are going to do about the increase in these disabilities (33 percent in 2 years and that is data on way older kids than ours). In 10 years I think we'll all be aware- no need to help that along. Why is this happening and how are we going to fix it. That's where I'm putting my time and effort.

But there is a lot of controversy over whether the incidence is truly increasing, or that clinicians are becoming more aware and getting better at diagnosing. 

um, no. bullshit.

[mamaturtle]

I will not be lighting up blue. Autism Speaks irritates me.

My mom doesn't learn to stop supporting Autism Speaks. We went to see the Caring Bunny out of town for the 3rd consecutive year and they were collecting a dollar donation with the purchase of photos. I said no, thank you. My mom gets a dollar from her purse. I let her have it again when we go to her house that Autism Speaks has done nothing for DS and he is diagnosed.

I believe Autism Awareness should be known but Acceptance should also be celebrated.

I let my brother have it when he decided to do a chess tournament in support of the town's ASD support group and wanted to support Autism Awareness. I told him what about Autism Acceptance. My brother was speechless.

[leroybrown]

Mar 31, 2015 9:00:35 GMT -5 mack said:

Mar 31, 2015 8:58:26 GMT -5 mcribster said:

I want to know WTF we are going to do about the increase in these disabilities (33 percent in 2 years and that is data on way older kids than ours). In 10 years I think we'll all be aware- no need to help that along. Why is this happening and how are we going to fix it. That's where I'm putting my time and effort.

But there is a lot of controversy over whether the incidence is truly increasing, or that clinicians are becoming more aware and getting better at diagnosing. 

This is where I am. Is it more prevalent because it's being diagnosed accurately or is it more prevalent because there are actually more people with autism?

[mrsbuttinski]

Mar 31, 2015 9:00:35 GMT -5 mack said:

Mar 31, 2015 8:58:26 GMT -5 mcribster said:

I want to know WTF we are going to do about the increase in these disabilities (33 percent in 2 years and that is data on way older kids than ours). In 10 years I think we'll all be aware- no need to help that along. Why is this happening and how are we going to fix it. That's where I'm putting my time and effort.

But there is a lot of controversy over whether the incidence is truly increasing, or that clinicians are becoming more aware and getting better at diagnosing. 

While it is true that more people are being identified because of better understanding of subtle presentations, as well as a trend toward fully dxing those who have comorbid ID- every big gun expert I know believes there is an increase in ASD at all level of atypicality and impairment. 

Thinking back to my own school experience, I can think of a couple kids in school who seems "Aspergerish" in retrospect. Two of them were identical twins who came to my elementary in the mid 1960s after a few years in a residential school; as a kid they were compelling to watch they were so different. I've done a little FB stalking- at least one of them has since been dxd with Aspergers; he owns a comic book store. The other died recently; turns out he was an expert on film from the silent era. Both were members of very obscure early cinema societies and clubs. 

When DS was dxd in 2000 it was thought that AS was seen in 1 out of 1000-5000 children his age. His elementary school, 900 kids, had 3 boys with the dx in the building- all mainstreamed. By the time he was in high school, the brass section of the marching band had more than that. There 3 (with a 4th potentially) in low brass, 2 clarinets, one in the pit and a silk.

When DS was initially dxd, the only place I found moms who got it was online. Starting about five years ago I couldn't swing a cat without hitting another parent. I had a week once where the RN at my mom's neurologist had to take a call from school during an appointment. When she apologized coming back she explained that her son's school was having trouble with his behavior related to ASD. Later that evening mom and I met my niece at her former workplace, Maggiano's, where our server was a mom of trips with one on spectrum. Later that week the lady who waxed my brows at the trendy spa had a puzzle pin on. Turns out her kid was struggling and she wanted to rail against DS's psych who had a wait-list. I rounded out the week at the vet whose tech struck up a conversation about AS/NVLD and the math issues her son was having. My BFF has turfed me her husband's niece who has a son on spectrum, he nephew's wife who has a son on spectrum and a coworker who has a college-aged  niece with AS living with her family.

[cam]

Mar 31, 2015 9:30:13 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

Mar 31, 2015 9:00:35 GMT -5 mack said:

But there is a lot of controversy over whether the incidence is truly increasing, or that clinicians are becoming more aware and getting better at diagnosing. 

While it is true that more people are being identified because of better understanding of subtle presentations, as well as a trend toward fully dxing those who have comorbid ID- every big gun expert I know believes there is an increase in ASD at all level of atypicality and impairment. 

Thinking back to my own school experience, I can think of a couple kids in school who seems "Aspergerish" in retrospect. Two of them were identical twins who came to my elementary in the mid 1960s after a few years in a residential school; as a kid they were compelling to watch they were so different. I've done a little FB stalking- at least one of them has since been dxd with Aspergers; he owns a comic book store. The other died recently; turns out he was an expert on film from the silent era. Both were members of very obscure early cinema societies and clubs. 

When DS was dxd in 2000 it was thought that AS was seen in 1 out of 1000-5000 children his age. His elementary school, 900 kids, had 3 boys with the dx in the building- all mainstreamed. By the time he was in high school, the brass section of the marching band had more than that. There 3 (with a 4th potentially) in low brass, 2 clarinets, one in the pit and a silk.

When DS was initially dxd, the only place I found moms who got it was online. Starting about five years ago I couldn't swing a cat without hitting another parent. I had a week once where the RN at my mom's neurologist had to take a call from school during an appointment. When she apologized coming back she explained that her son's school was having trouble with his behavior related to ASD. Later that evening mom and I met my niece at her former workplace, Maggiano's, where our server was a mom of trips with one on spectrum. Later that week the lady who waxed my brows at the trendy spa had a puzzle pin on. Turns out her kid was struggling and she wanted to rail against DS's psych who had a wait-list. I rounded out the week at the vet whose tech struck up a conversation about AS/NVLD and the math issues her son was having. My BFF has turfed me her husband's niece who has a son on spectrum, he nephew's wife who has a son on spectrum and a coworker who has a college-aged  niece with AS living with her family.

I think in part the double-dx'ing (a parent getting a dx along with the child) that occurs in some cases is adding to the numbers, allowing some high functioning individuals to be dx'd as adults who otherwise may not have ever been. I think another part is that it makes sense numbers would go up with each generation if you consider that ASD tends to be amplified in each generation it gets passed down to and ASD shows up in children with a family hx of other issues, so as an example if a great grandparent was a touch quirky, a grandparent had ADHD, and a parent had HFA that went undx'd, now kid gets dx'd with an ASD or people who are just barely on the NT side of the cut-off are having kids that have higher odds of being on the ASD side of the cut-off, so each generation would have greater odds really when more and more sets of genes would potentially have a predisposition. This is only accounting for cases that have a genetic component, as plenty of cases have other factors at play. I hope that is remotely coming out how I am seeing it. I think unless we break ASD into the however many disorders it likely truly is, we will never have a good understanding. As it is, it is like trying to examine my fruit bowl to figure out where all the fruit comes from, for which there is no one answer as the apples come from an apple tree, and so on for the bananas, strawberries, oranges, cantaloupe, etc - they don't even all come from trees in general.

[mrsbuttinski]

Mar 31, 2015 10:04:03 GMT -5 cam said:

Mar 31, 2015 9:30:13 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

While it is true that more people are being identified because of better understanding of subtle presentations, as well as a trend toward fully dxing those who have comorbid ID- every big gun expert I know believes there is an increase in ASD at all level of atypicality and impairment. 

Thinking back to my own school experience, I can think of a couple kids in school who seems "Aspergerish" in retrospect. Two of them were identical twins who came to my elementary in the mid 1960s after a few years in a residential school; as a kid they were compelling to watch they were so different. I've done a little FB stalking- at least one of them has since been dxd with Aspergers; he owns a comic book store. The other died recently; turns out he was an expert on film from the silent era. Both were members of very obscure early cinema societies and clubs. 

When DS was dxd in 2000 it was thought that AS was seen in 1 out of 1000-5000 children his age. His elementary school, 900 kids, had 3 boys with the dx in the building- all mainstreamed. By the time he was in high school, the brass section of the marching band had more than that. There 3 (with a 4th potentially) in low brass, 2 clarinets, one in the pit and a silk.

When DS was initially dxd, the only place I found moms who got it was online. Starting about five years ago I couldn't swing a cat without hitting another parent. I had a week once where the RN at my mom's neurologist had to take a call from school during an appointment. When she apologized coming back she explained that her son's school was having trouble with his behavior related to ASD. Later that evening mom and I met my niece at her former workplace, Maggiano's, where our server was a mom of trips with one on spectrum. Later that week the lady who waxed my brows at the trendy spa had a puzzle pin on. Turns out her kid was struggling and she wanted to rail against DS's psych who had a wait-list. I rounded out the week at the vet whose tech struck up a conversation about AS/NVLD and the math issues her son was having. My BFF has turfed me her husband's niece who has a son on spectrum, he nephew's wife who has a son on spectrum and a coworker who has a college-aged  niece with AS living with her family.

I think in part the double-dx'ing (a parent getting a dx along with the child) that occurs in some cases is adding to the numbers, allowing some high functioning individuals to be dx'd as adults who otherwise may not have ever been.


IME, I know more adults without children who were dxd as adults than those who were dxd as a function of their child being identified. Both happen, but it seems the parents are more likely to self-dx which doesn't count. Double dxing also happens when parents are having a younger, more impaired child evaluated and realized during the various interviews and scales that one of their older children meets the criteria.


I think another part is that it makes sense numbers would go up with each generation if you consider that ASD tends to be amplified in each generation it gets passed down to and ASD shows up in children with a family hx of other issues, so as an example if a great grandparent was a touch quirky, a grandparent had ADHD, and a parent had HFA that went undx'd, now kid gets dx'd with an ASD or people who are just barely on the NT side of the cut-off are having kids that have higher odds of being on the ASD side of the cut-off, so each generation would have greater odds really when more and more sets of genes would potentially have a predisposition.


This does happen. Age plays into this as subsequent generations have children at older ages.


This is only accounting for cases that have a genetic component, as plenty of cases have other factors at play. I hope that is remotely coming out how I am seeing it. I think unless we break ASD into the however many disorders it likely truly is, we will never have a good understanding. As it is, it is like trying to examine my fruit bowl to figure out where all the fruit comes from, for which there is no one answer as the apples come from an apple tree, and so on for the bananas, strawberries, oranges, cantaloupe, etc - they don't even all come from trees in general.

Most experts believe genetics load the gun, but that environment pulls the trigger. Many feel ASD is an umbrella term for a set of conditions that have similar features but likely have different causes. This could explain clusters as well as situations where a small group of people with ASD respond to non-conventional approaches.

[cam]

Mar 31, 2015 10:38:13 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

Mar 31, 2015 10:04:03 GMT -5 cam said:

Most experts believe genetics load the gun, but that environment pulls the trigger. Many feel ASD is an umbrella term for a set of conditions that have similar features but likely have different causes. This could explain clusters as well as situations where a small group of people with ASD respond to non-conventional approaches.

Exactly. There are so many different genes affected when it is examined. It isn't just one particular gene that is a common factor. As more generations go by, in theory, more and more people could end up with one or more "loaded gun" gene, which would result in potentially more firing as triggers are pulled. Potentially someone in the past was playing Russian Roulette with on average 1 bullet in the revolver, but now perhaps the average is 2 or 3 bullets in the revolver in someone predisposed to ASD, as well as more people being predisposed than in the past (the more cases of ASD or related conditions there are, the more people have a family hx that can lead them down that path). Or perhaps the increased intermixing of the various conditions of similar presentation has lead to the amplification with generations from a little quirk here and there to extremely impacted as those similar conditions get stacked on each other. Likely it is a combination of all of those factors and numerous others that all just compound into higher and higher rates of dx'd cases. Either way, it exists and is everywhere, so it is long overdue that understanding and support be present so that everyone can coexist happily. We don't need more people aware of its existence because pretty much everyone seems to be aware, just too many of them have a completely inaccurate picture, which is zero help to anyone. "1 in __ have ASD" seems to be the only message pushed, which is no actual useful information anyway.

[mcribster]

Mar 31, 2015 11:45:50 GMT -5 cam said:

Mar 31, 2015 10:38:13 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

Exactly. There are so many different genes affected when it is examined. It isn't just one particular gene that is a common factor. As more generations go by, in theory, more and more people could end up with one or more "loaded gun" gene, which would result in potentially more firing as triggers are pulled. Potentially someone in the past was playing Russian Roulette with on average 1 bullet in the revolver, but now perhaps the average is 2 or 3 bullets in the revolver in someone predisposed to ASD, as well as more people being predisposed than in the past (the more cases of ASD or related conditions there are, the more people have a family hx that can lead them down that path). Or perhaps the increased intermixing of the various conditions of similar presentation has lead to the amplification with generations from a little quirk here and there to extremely impacted as those similar conditions get stacked on each other. Likely it is a combination of all of those factors and numerous others that all just compound into higher and higher rates of dx'd cases. Either way, it exists and is everywhere, so it is long overdue that understanding and support be present so that everyone can coexist happily. We don't need more people aware of its existence because pretty much everyone seems to be aware, just too many of them have a completely inaccurate picture, which is zero help to anyone. "1 in __ have ASD" seems to be the only message pushed, which is no actual useful information anyway.

I think at this rate we all have the "loaded gun" gene and looking at genes (which Autis $peaks is fond of doing) isn't getting anyone anywhere. When you look at the rise in childhood developmental disabilities including ASD, ADD, ADHD, ODD, PANDAS, food allergies, asthma it points towards the trigger pulling and not the gun. GMOS, increased vaccine schedule (I've had 10 in my life, my 2 year old has had 36), huge rise in EMFs, glycophospate and other pesticides, toxins in air, etc. I think we all have a toxic tipping point. My dad got alzhimers at 75 while my son got ASD at 2. Same genes and IMO basically same illness. Just a different tipping point---- totally my UO for the day

[BostonKisses]

I'm not planning to light it up blue because I can't stand Autism Sp.eaks. The most I may do is a blog post, if that. I save all of my efforts for May when I do my big blog series, and getting all of that set up is taxing enough that I don't think I have the time or energy for 2 month's worth of awareness stuff, especially 2 consecutive months.

[akafred]

Mar 31, 2015 9:30:13 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

Mar 31, 2015 9:00:35 GMT -5 mack said:

But there is a lot of controversy over whether the incidence is truly increasing, or that clinicians are becoming more aware and getting better at diagnosing. 

While it is true that more people are being identified because of better understanding of subtle presentations, as well as a trend toward fully dxing those who have comorbid ID- every big gun expert I know believes there is an increase in ASD at all level of atypicality and impairment. 

Thinking back to my own school experience, I can think of a couple kids in school who seems "Aspergerish" in retrospect. Two of them were identical twins who came to my elementary in the mid 1960s after a few years in a residential school; as a kid they were compelling to watch they were so different. I've done a little FB stalking- at least one of them has since been dxd with Aspergers; he owns a comic book store. The other died recently; turns out he was an expert on film from the silent era. Both were members of very obscure early cinema societies and clubs. 

When DS was dxd in 2000 it was thought that AS was seen in 1 out of 1000-5000 children his age. His elementary school, 900 kids, had 3 boys with the dx in the building- all mainstreamed. By the time he was in high school, the brass section of the marching band had more than that. There 3 (with a 4th potentially) in low brass, 2 clarinets, one in the pit and a silk.

When DS was initially dxd, the only place I found moms who got it was online. Starting about five years ago I couldn't swing a cat without hitting another parent. I had a week once where the RN at my mom's neurologist had to take a call from school during an appointment. When she apologized coming back she explained that her son's school was having trouble with his behavior related to ASD. Later that evening mom and I met my niece at her former workplace, Maggiano's, where our server was a mom of trips with one on spectrum. Later that week the lady who waxed my brows at the trendy spa had a puzzle pin on. Turns out her kid was struggling and she wanted to rail against DS's psych who had a wait-list. I rounded out the week at the vet whose tech struck up a conversation about AS/NVLD and the math issues her son was having. My BFF has turfed me her husband's niece who has a son on spectrum, he nephew's wife who has a son on spectrum and a coworker who has a college-aged  niece with AS living with her family.

To be fair, a high school marching band is not exactly a cross-section of neurodiversity. I can name maybe 3 kids on my HS band who weren't social outsiders, and probably only because they were drop dead gorgeous.

But I get your point .

I also submit that people are no longer confined to their general geographical zones anymore, which widens marriage chances for the quirky. Especially in the age of Internet dating, but even just as people became less agrarian and began owning cars.

[typeset]

Mar 31, 2015 11:54:20 GMT -5 mcribster said:

Edited because I broke the quote.

"My dad got alzhimers at 75 while my son got ASD at 2. Same genes and IMO basically same illness. Just a different tipping point ..."

Will you please elaborate?

[Life is interesting]

Mar 31, 2015 9:23:06 GMT -5 leroybrown said:

Mar 31, 2015 9:00:35 GMT -5 mack said:

But there is a lot of controversy over whether the incidence is truly increasing, or that clinicians are becoming more aware and getting better at diagnosing. 

This is where I am. Is it more prevalent because it's being diagnosed accurately or is it more prevalent because there are actually more people with autism?

Better diagnostic tools and more awareness. (My 2 cents) I have wondered how much parental age at conception plays. People are having children later than decades ago and there are a few studies I've read that both parental and maternal age increases risk. I'm sure it is only one piece of the puzzle.

[mrsbuttinski]

Mar 31, 2015 16:11:01 GMT -5 akafred said:

Mar 31, 2015 9:30:13 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

While it is true that more people are being identified because of better understanding of subtle presentations, as well as a trend toward fully dxing those who have comorbid ID- every big gun expert I know believes there is an increase in ASD at all level of atypicality and impairment. 

Thinking back to my own school experience, I can think of a couple kids in school who seems "Aspergerish" in retrospect. Two of them were identical twins who came to my elementary in the mid 1960s after a few years in a residential school; as a kid they were compelling to watch they were so different. I've done a little FB stalking- at least one of them has since been dxd with Aspergers; he owns a comic book store. The other died recently; turns out he was an expert on film from the silent era. Both were members of very obscure early cinema societies and clubs. 

When DS was dxd in 2000 it was thought that AS was seen in 1 out of 1000-5000 children his age. His elementary school, 900 kids, had 3 boys with the dx in the building- all mainstreamed. By the time he was in high school, the brass section of the marching band had more than that. There 3 (with a 4th potentially) in low brass, 2 clarinets, one in the pit and a silk.

When DS was initially dxd, the only place I found moms who got it was online. Starting about five years ago I couldn't swing a cat without hitting another parent. I had a week once where the RN at my mom's neurologist had to take a call from school during an appointment. When she apologized coming back she explained that her son's school was having trouble with his behavior related to ASD. Later that evening mom and I met my niece at her former workplace, Maggiano's, where our server was a mom of trips with one on spectrum. Later that week the lady who waxed my brows at the trendy spa had a puzzle pin on. Turns out her kid was struggling and she wanted to rail against DS's psych who had a wait-list. I rounded out the week at the vet whose tech struck up a conversation about AS/NVLD and the math issues her son was having. My BFF has turfed me her husband's niece who has a son on spectrum, he nephew's wife who has a son on spectrum and a coworker who has a college-aged  niece with AS living with her family.

To be fair, a high school marching band is not exactly a cross-section of neurodiversity. I can name maybe 3 kids on my HS band who weren't social outsiders, and probably only because they were drop dead gorgeous.

But I get your point .


True. But you can appreciate that 3/900 is fewer than 7/150. Especially given that there one cluster. There were a few on spectrum in choir, orchestra and drama club- as well as the OM team and the science honor societies. 

I also submit that people are no longer confined to their general geographical zones anymore, which widens marriage chances for the quirky. Especially in the age of Internet dating, but even just as people became less agrarian and began owning cars.

I'd say that the tech industry has rocked the Asperger dating world. DS's psych is certain that high income IT men are able to attract mates because their skill set provides a good and appealing wage which has created a critical mass for breeding kids on spectrum. Didn't Temple Grandin say NASA was a sheltered workshop? 

As for car ownership and driving? Dream on. About 25% of the more higher functioning people on spectrum drive. 


well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/27/the-challenge-of-driving-with-aspergers/

Among my old friends from OASIS who all have kids with an Asperger dx- 3 have licenses, one of those refuses to drive after 3 accidents. The other four who are old enough to drive do not.

Only about 15% of the highest function adults with ASD works full time. If an adult with ASD relies on SSI for support, they can't have assets worth over $2000 total- so a car is probably out of the question. On $733 they probably couldn't afford to maintain or insure it anyway.

[akafred]

Yeah but people with quirks breed people on spectrum. 200 years ago, quirky people didn't marry (and people who didn't marry didn't reproduce). They were weird as kids, and didn't get arranged into marriages and didn't find love either. But once they could travel more readily by train and eventually by car, that changed. Maybe they wouldn'f be dx today, but maybe they produced kids on spectrum or grandkids. It's not really about autistic people having drivers licenses so much as people who have spectrumy genes and previously wouldn't have passed their genes on *in part* because they were confined to their geographical area of origin no longer now being able to marry and pass on their genes because travel and moving to new geographical areas and starting over is easier than it once was. Probably not a HUGE contributor alone, but combined into a category of more opportunity for spreading the genes, it's pretty significant.

[mack]

Mar 31, 2015 18:43:37 GMT -5 akafred said:

Yeah but people with quirks breed people on spectrum. 200 years ago, quirky people didn't marry (and people who didn't marry didn't reproduce). They were weird as kids, and didn't get arranged into marriages and didn't find love either. But once they could travel more readily by train and eventually by car, that changed. Maybe they wouldn'f be dx today, but maybe they produced kids on spectrum or grandkids. It's not really about autistic people having drivers licenses so much as people who have spectrumy genes and previously wouldn't have passed their genes on *in part* because they were confined to their geographical area of origin no longer now being able to marry and pass on their genes because travel and moving to new geographical areas and starting over is easier than it once was. Probably not a HUGE contributor alone, but combined into a category of more opportunity for spreading the genes, it's pretty significant.

Like take two computer programmers. They likely have autism genes between them. So now they end up working for a computer company together, meet, connect and then have kids. That wouldn't have happened years ago. Like 50 years ago, the woman wouldn't have been going to work at Microsoft to meet her equally spectrumy match.

[akafred]

Mar 31, 2015 19:24:54 GMT -5 mack said:

Mar 31, 2015 18:43:37 GMT -5 akafred said:

Yeah but people with quirks breed people on spectrum. 200 years ago, quirky people didn't marry (and people who didn't marry didn't reproduce). They were weird as kids, and didn't get arranged into marriages and didn't find love either. But once they could travel more readily by train and eventually by car, that changed. Maybe they wouldn'f be dx today, but maybe they produced kids on spectrum or grandkids. It's not really about autistic people having drivers licenses so much as people who have spectrumy genes and previously wouldn't have passed their genes on *in part* because they were confined to their geographical area of origin no longer now being able to marry and pass on their genes because travel and moving to new geographical areas and starting over is easier than it once was. Probably not a HUGE contributor alone, but combined into a category of more opportunity for spreading the genes, it's pretty significant.

Like take two computer programmers. They likely have autism genes between them. So now they end up working for a computer company together, meet, connect and then have kids. That wouldn't have happened years ago. Like 50 years ago, the woman wouldn't have been going to work at Microsoft to meet her equally spectrumy match.

Sure. And 100 years ago she would have been an old maid, and 200 years ago she may have been more or less locked in her family's home and kept secret. But even 50 years ago she may have been able to leave home and move to a new city to be a teacher or librarian, gotten married to some other quirky person and made autistic babies.

[theycallmemommy]

Mar 31, 2015 19:40:04 GMT -5 akafred said:

Mar 31, 2015 19:24:54 GMT -5 mack said:

Like take two computer programmers. They likely have autism genes between them. So now they end up working for a computer company together, meet, connect and then have kids. That wouldn't have happened years ago. Like 50 years ago, the woman wouldn't have been going to work at Microsoft to meet her equally spectrumy match.

Sure. And 100 years ago she would have been an old maid, and 200 years ago she may have been more or less locked in her family's home and kept secret. But even 50 years ago she may have been able to leave home and move to a new city to be a teacher or librarian, gotten married to some other quirky person and made autistic babies.

This theory obviously doesn't explain everything. It doesn't apply to my situation. I'm trying not to take offense to the ideas you are throwing out there but your wording is a bit offensive.

I will still put my two cents in. My husband has bipolar/anxiety, his half sister has schizophrenia, his full sister has krohns, his mom has MS, and his grandfather had bipolar. From my perspective, my son probably didn't have a genetic chance. Until I did some research about the link to asd I didn't realize that all of these conditions are linked. We also have an increased a chance of a comorbid since bipolar presents later in life. Dh was diagnosed as a teen after many misdiagnoses. We are not a couple of tech people having "asd babies"

[Life is interesting]

Mar 31, 2015 22:50:51 GMT -5 theycallmemommy said:

Mar 31, 2015 19:40:04 GMT -5 akafred said:

Sure. And 100 years ago she would have been an old maid, and 200 years ago she may have been more or less locked in her family's home and kept secret. But even 50 years ago she may have been able to leave home and move to a new city to be a teacher or librarian, gotten married to some other quirky person and made autistic babies.

This theory obviously doesn't explain everything. It doesn't apply to my situation. I'm trying not to take offense to the ideas you are throwing out there but your wording is a bit offensive.

I will still put my two cents in. My husband has bipolar/anxiety, his half sister has schizophrenia, his full sister has krohns, his mom has MS, and his grandfather had bipolar. From my perspective, my son probably didn't have a genetic chance. Until I did some research about the link to asd I didn't realize that all of these conditions are linked. We also have an increased a chance of a comorbid since bipolar presents later in life. Dh was diagnosed as a teen after many misdiagnoses. We are not a couple of tech people having "asd babies"

The above did read as a bit offensive and certainly conjecture. I suppose that's what most of this thread is, conjecture ( my thoughts included). Even the scientists can't nail down a specific cause because ASD is such a wide spectrum. Of course there are similarities and correlation to be made but still much to learn.


genetic counseling should be available to all people wanting to have a child. Yes it's expensive but sometimes helpful. I'm not aware of there being any ASD specific marker though so there's not anything to test for in that regard but relative risk can be known. We didn't know ours until LO #2 and we had generic counseling so sometimes even that fails when you don't have all the information in the family gene pool.

[mcribster]

Mar 31, 2015 16:45:07 GMT -5 typeset said:

Mar 31, 2015 11:54:20 GMT -5 mcribster said:

Edited because I broke the quote.

"My dad got alzhimers at 75 while my son got ASD at 2. Same genes and IMO basically same illness. Just a different tipping point ..."

Will you please elaborate?

typeset I believe that the toxic load and Gut flora imbalance factors into ASD and related conditions. My dad's dementia showed up after a MRSA bug, 4 courses of broad spectrum antibitocis w/o probiotics to replace them. I'm sure he had a bad bug overgrowth and a major yeast issue when he started to lose it mentally. Same with my son: 4 courses of ear infections and antibotics, no probiotics or antifungals all at a major time of development (15-18 months as happens to so many ASD kids). When we gave my son nystatin at the beginning of biomed it was like a cloud just lifted and he was with us again. You know I've analyzed this to death and have a million doctors so other factors that are similar include MTHFR methylation issues (body can't detoxify metals- very common with ASD), aluminum toxicity, KPU (pyrolle disorder which is an imbalance of copper/b-6 zinc ratio common in ASD, bipolar families, etc). I did not know about all this and my Dad has since passed away but my son is super high in quinilonic acid made from clostridia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinolinic_acid
it is a potent neurotoxin. i can only speculate that this also affected my Dad. I think my dad wasn't exposed to nearly as many toxins (plastics, GMOs, EMF, metals, etc) as DS so it hit him later in life.

[akafred]

Certainly nothing I said is intended to offend, so I apologize if it did. I was probably too slangy. Obviously it is just conjecture, but here's the root of what I'm saying: It is pretty well accepted that there's a strong genetic component to autism (and I'm speaking of autism specifically). It is also believed that successive generations tend to be more and more profoundly affected, meaning someone who is more "broader autistic phenotype" but wouldn't get a dx (aka "quirky") may produce someone high functioning Aspergers type, who may produce a more profoundly affected autistic child, and so on (it may take more than 3 generations but you get the idea). One of the reasons autism rates are increasing is that people with these genes, for various reasons, are more likely to reproduce than they once were. My point is just that people who were once "quirky" (BAP) would not have reproduced because of the way society was. Now that people don't die within 10 miles of where they are born anymore, "quirky" people as well as high functioning people who would qualify for a dx are now able to find people who once would have been old maids and old bachelors.

[mrsbuttinski]

Mar 31, 2015 19:24:54 GMT -5 mack said:

Mar 31, 2015 18:43:37 GMT -5 akafred said:

Like take two computer programmers. They likely have autism genes between them. So now they end up working for a computer company together, meet, connect and then have kids. That wouldn't have happened years ago. Like 50 years ago, the woman wouldn't have been going to work at Microsoft to meet her equally spectrumy match.

TBH, I have never met the result of 2 programmers walk into a bar.

I have heard this anecdote, but it doesn't exist in my world. I think it would make a fascinating study to dig through birth records in Scandinavia. There does seem to be a relationship with engineering, especially engineers across generations. But that could play into the grandfather's age factor or even the father's age factor.

Of my friends, 3 parents are professional classical musicians (2 strings and one a conductor), 3 of the parents are attorneys (2 moms, 1 dad), two are PhD scientists, one is a physician, one was an architect, one is a college administrator, one is a plumber, one is a writer, one is a 40 year old single mom undergrad whose ex is a sociopath/limo driver and one is a IT professional. Just one.

mack said:

Sure. And 100 years ago she would have been an old maid, and 200 years ago she may have been more or less locked in her family's home and kept secret. But even 50 years ago she may have been able to leave home and move to a new city to be a teacher or librarian, gotten married to some other quirky person and made autistic babies.

Maybe not. My midwife friend and I have discussed this. She works among the Amish who pretty much live as they did 200 years ago. She thinks she's seen kids and adults on spectrum. In farming homes, they are tasked with jobs they can handle. They aren't locked up anywhere. Those who are very impaired are generally cared for as children and the infirm would be.

Those with more subtle presentations probably marry, much as the men and women in the orthodox communities do. Often these alliances are arranged for social and financial considerations, so it's possible someone on spectrum could end up married to someone who might not be at all like them.

[mrsbuttinski]

Two other factors that play into the numbers.

The increased rate of multiple births which are more likely to produce a child on spectrum. This could have a tie-in to advanced parental age since older mothers tend to have more multiples whether spontaneously or via ART. I know of 4 sets of trip- each has a child on spectrum.

And then there are the tremendous strides made in helping premature babies survive. Preemie do seem to have higher rates of ASD.

[NiteStar73]

Mar 31, 2015 9:23:06 GMT -5 leroybrown said:

Mar 31, 2015 9:00:35 GMT -5 mack said:

But there is a lot of controversy over whether the incidence is truly increasing, or that clinicians are becoming more aware and getting better at diagnosing. 

This is where I am. Is it more prevalent because it's being diagnosed accurately or is it more prevalent because there are actually more people with autism?

FWIW, I think it's a little of both.  I think yes it's just happening more but I think the fact that awareness campaigns have worked - parents/teachers/caregivers who may have some concerns about a child are more open to saying something and/or doing something to look into it further and not just dismiss it as 'oh that's just how kids are' 'oh they'll grow out of it' 'oh he just marches to the beat of his own drum'.