Kids going to kill each other

[brachysira]

Please advise.

My kids are 19 months apart.  They cannot keep their hands off each other.  Their play is always like, one hides in the closet and they try to slam/pry open the door.  They both try to sit on the same spot on the couch and wrestle for it.  They simultaneously try to climb on a high bed/keep the other one off.  They do this even if we've spent all morning at the park running around, even if they've just woken up for a good night's sleep, just out of the tub, almost any time.  I am not a big physical person, so it's possible they just need more "touch."  Otherwise, I am just bewildered.  

They cannot really be together at all without this sort of thing developing unless we are a) watching TV; or b) out of the house at somewhere interesting.  So this summer I have just  been scheduling us like mad so that we're always doing something.  But I can't really think this is a good long-term plan as we really don't read much, they don't really get much quiet/pretend/independent play, and there isn't much time for talking/learning/introspection/etc.  My friends who have slightly older children say things like, "sorry my kids aren't playing with yours--they really only play with each other."  And, "if my kids aren't getting along, I have them play independently for an hour, and then they are so happy to see each other that they play nicely for another hour."  Not my kids, who would just scream for an hour if I told them they had to stay and play by themselves, and who very rarely play together if we are out.  

Although I do not think he's ready, I've enrolled my son in T/R preschool in the fall, and my daughter will go M/W/F.  I am hoping that by giving each mom-time in the mornings that I can give each the attention they need and that they will have more of a chance to play quietly, read, etc. and then that they will be mature enough by the year end that they can enjoy each other's company more.  But I'm sort of worried that I need to instead "parent" my way though this and help my children learn to play nicely and appreciate each other...but I'm just at a loss about how to do this.  I end up yelling, lecturing, time outs, etc. but it doesn't stop the violence for more than a minute.  Even when my parents were here and there were a lot of adults to help and attention to go around, my kids were just drawn to each other and all the fighting just sort of shocked my parents and quite limited the fun of the visit.  

General suggestions?  Do you think just limiting their time together and trying to keep them active/distracted is an adequate strategy, or should I be trying specific things to help them get along and develop prosocial behaviors?

[brachysira]

Let me add that this always leads to some kind of injury or crying. I totally encourage them to take turns somersaulting off the couch or jump from pillow to pillow. But anything where they are touching immediately escalates to kicking, hitting, hair pulling, biting. I say, "is someone crying? Look at his face--is he happy or sad? If he's sad, stop." And, "there is no hitting, kicking, or biting in this house." It just doesn't seem to matter. DD especially knows that I don't approve, but she just tries to do those things covertly or tells me she's just hugging, etc.

[lbonga1]

I don't have much as far as suggestions, but I offer my support because my kids act similarly. Mine are 17, almost 18 months apart. They don't get violent often , but they are very physical with each other. Usually it leads to the little one getting knocked over or hit with something. My Feb 13 baby (the older one) is very in-your-face all the time, so sometimes DD2 will get fed up and push her. DD1 has a lot of "I just" excuses too. When she gives me an excuse, I usually tell her something like "I understand what you're telling me, but this is what I need you to do." She recently started preschool twice a week for 3 hours, and I think it helps that she's getting more time with kids her age.

Have you tried board games? DD1 has started really liking them. DD2 will stay interested if there's something she can do, like try to spin a spinner or pop the bubble thing in Trouble. I've also set up "obstacle courses" inside, and they like to do that. I've taken diving rings and told them to only walk in the rings, or tell DD1 to stand on one foot inside the ring, jump on pillows, crawl through a big cardboard box, run in a circle around a cone, stuff like that.

I do think it's nice for them to have some time apart, although it can be hard when we're all at home. I think with having them in preschool, as you mentioned, would help.

[brachysira]

Thanks. My DD likes board games, but little DS just wants to grab parts and run away, use his arms to spread out all the pieces wildly, etc. We have this toddler game where you have to just sort cards by color and then roll a big die, but even that means cards everywhere. DD becomes immediately enraged if he even wants to pick up a single card to study it, which then encourages DS to amp it up to further her attention, and so it unravels. Even in the best of times, DD is too physical...like if a board game is put away and I ask DS to not get it out and spread the pieces around, DD will grab his shirt and pull him down if he's even headed towards it.

We do enjoy obstacle courses but it's a pretty short activity and involves DD saying "I need help" 100x as well as opportunities for fighting to arise when DS decides to skip a step and is now in DD's way...

DS is barely verbal...he says a lot of words and puts words together, but it's more like, "more cheese" rather than "I mad because I don't have any blue paint." So I'm really worried about him going to school in a 2 year-old class where he'll be 23 months and other kids may be almost 3. But it's all I can think of to help quell DD's rage towards him and give them both an opportunity for stories, pretend play, and alone time.

[pinkie]

Our kids are the same gap as yours so I understand the struggle. The kids are in daycare so we don't have so much opportunity for the every day trying to kill each other. Weekends can get rough and we also try to get out for one activity each day because it does help tame the fighting. I wouldn't say ours is so bad - We do intervene. We try to distract but will make Z go to his room for a 5 min break if he's not being reasonable with his little brother. Now T does instigate a lot and we also try to not let him get away with everything just because he's younger. If they hit each other that is not allowed and has a consequence.

I understand not wanting to be a full time ref. I don't know what to say to help but I think having them going to daycare or preschool part time can help a lot.

[crimsonandclover]

DDs 1+2 are 22 months apart. They go through phases. There are phases where they play beautifully together most of the time (of course there are still occasional fights), and then there are phases where they can't sit next to each other for 2 seconds without hitting/kicking/pushing, etc.
We've had "quiet time" in the afternoon ever since they stopped taking naps, but for the last 6 months or so they've started playing together during quiet time. I tell them that it's ok unless they fight. If they fight, they go to their own rooms for the rest of quiet time. It works fairly well, although I pretend I can't hear the little fights. I enforce the rule if it gets so bad that I have to go up or if one of them calls me up.

Maybe you could start off with a very short time - 10 min? - where they have to play alone in their rooms, and then very gradually up it? I think it's a good thing for kids to have some time on their own. Hopefully having some alone time with you in the mornings this fall will help, too.

[dc2london]

My kids wrestle and generally torture each other. It drives me crazy, but I read a few articles saying that it helps them learn. So I try not to intervene every 10 seconds.
It's hard though

[brachysira]

dc2london, I read those too, but I feel like what my kids are doing isn't teaching them the skills. Like, DD does not hesitate to kick DS in the face when she's wearing shoes. I am just going to have to try to intervene a lot with "say stop if you don't like that." "If you hear 'stop,' you have to stop." And, "we never kick." And then enforcing with mini-time-outs if they don't comply. Otherwise, I feel like they are not learning self control and all the other skills they're supposed to get. Plus, I guess DH is going to have to wrestle with them more to model how to wrestle without hurting someone...