I see both points of view on it. Does black violence need to be fixed? YES! Does he seem like the most appropriate advocate for them (being a fairly privileged individual in a category of celebrity that has been criticized for getting special favors from law enforcement and the judicial system)? NOT EXACTLY
But to this point, history tells me that very little changes for oppressed people unless people of greater means sit, listen to the oppressed, and then go back to their lofty positions and champion the causes that can make a difference.
and history has shown us they don't listen until they get uncomfortable
I know Larry happened. Please do not try to convince me otherwise. Please don't talk to me about coffee. I don't drink it. I don't caffeine. When I state my opinion, that is me chiming in on a topic. This is not me saying you suck at life if you do or feel differently. If I want to say that, I will. If I want to speak on you, I will.
My fb feed is filled with that stupid meme comparing Kap with military. Literally nothing to do with each other.
Also sick of the arguments that he was raised by white people, and that he is now wealthy. As if either of those have anything to do with the color of his skin.
Omg. @jboogie, you need to be resting. Not arguing with racist, stupid people.
But, yeah, some of the arguments against him are horrible.
it was a safe way for me to test my vocabulary coming back! I had aphasia. The ppl were from San Francisco and one even had the nerve to suggest that because he was raised by white ppl, he didn't even understand the issues. My doc also told me that my medicine may make me aggressive so I kept asking my husband if I was being too aggressive. He told me to keep battling.
A good debate can be good exercise for your brain and stuff.
I know Larry happened. Please do not try to convince me otherwise. Please don't talk to me about coffee. I don't drink it. I don't caffeine. When I state my opinion, that is me chiming in on a topic. This is not me saying you suck at life if you do or feel differently. If I want to say that, I will. If I want to speak on you, I will.
I also wonder how this would have played out if a different black athlete protested in this manner, because I feel like Colin eats crackers for a lot of people.
I also wonder how this would have played out if a different black athlete protested in this manner, because I feel like Colin eats crackers for a lot of people.
Yes. Like James Harrison, the guy who conservatives LOVE because he took away his kids' participation trophies.
If only skimmed this thread but just cause he was raised with money does not mean he had the benefit of white privilege!!!!
Do we have to go throw go this again?
This is like when white people scream out, "but j grew up poor!" It's not about socioeconomic background boo. It's your white skin affords you to be handled and approached differently and given the benefit of the doubt.
I know Larry happened. Please do not try to convince me otherwise. Please don't talk to me about coffee. I don't drink it. I don't caffeine. When I state my opinion, that is me chiming in on a topic. This is not me saying you suck at life if you do or feel differently. If I want to say that, I will. If I want to speak on you, I will.
Post by cougarette on Aug 29, 2016 21:03:31 GMT -5
It seems most of the things I'm seeing on fb are people thinking CK is saying HE'S oppressed. They don't get it and makes me wonder how any change can happen if people won't listen to the actual message.
It seems most of the things I'm seeing on fb are people thinking CK is saying HE'S oppressed. They don't get it and makes me wonder how any change can happen if people won't listen to the actual message.
I know Larry happened. Please do not try to convince me otherwise. Please don't talk to me about coffee. I don't drink it. I don't caffeine. When I state my opinion, that is me chiming in on a topic. This is not me saying you suck at life if you do or feel differently. If I want to say that, I will. If I want to speak on you, I will.
So suddenly people think NFL players can only raise awareness of they are personally victimized by the cause (which, I'm sure CK is, but for argument's sake I'll say he's not).
How many NFL players have had breast cancer? Doesn't stop the NFL from turning every thing pink in October.
How many NFL players are battered in relationships? Probably few to none. Yet we are ok with them raising awareness for domestic violence victims.
The difference here is that CK is raising awareness for something that makes people uncomfortable and/or angry. It's not about his statement. It's about the cause.
I kind of basically just hate Kaep. I mean, he's an island and all. And a cocky, arrogant asshat. And the 49er are MY team. Most fans hate him in general, so yeah, anything he does is going to be viewed negatively.
That said, he's served his purpose beautifully two fold - love him or hate him, people are talking about his cause. And they're not talking as much about how shitty his last two years were.
Jim Wright is an Iraqi war veteran. He has a blog called StoneKettle Station. He had this to say:
"To you the National Anthem means one thing, to Kaepernick it means something else. We are all shaped and defined by our experiences and we see the world through our own eyes. That's freedom. That's liberty. The right to believe differently. The right to protest as you will. The right to demand better. The right to believe your country can BE better, that it can live up to its sacred ideals, and the right to loudly note that it has NOT. The right to use your voice, your actions, to bring attention to the things you believe in. The right to want more for others, freedom, liberty, justice, equality, and RESPECT.
A true veteran might not agree with Colin Kaepernick, but a true veteran would fight to the death to protect his right to say what he believes.
You don't like what Kaepernick has to say? Then prove him wrong, BE the nation he can respect.
@bruxannie Jim Wright's facebook post in its entirety is worth a read if you haven't seen it:
"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."
I've been away from the internet all day.
I came home from a family picnic on the Blackwater River to find my inbox, as usual, overflowing like a ripe Port-O-Pottie. One of the first messages I read was about 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick, quoted above, who last Friday night at the beginning of a preseason game suddenly decided to become the most hated man in America du jour by deliberately not standing for the National Anthem.
Yes, that's right, a football player didn't stand for the National Anthem.
As you know, this means Kaepernick is scum, a horrible human being, a likely member of ISIS, a Muslim terrorist, a black thug, a communist, a socialist (and not the cool share your weed Bernie Sanders kind of socialist but the Red Brigade kind of Socialist who sleeps under a poster of Chairman Mao), a radical, a Black Panther, and he probably has Fidel Castro's phone number in his contact favorites.
Yeah. Okay.
I answered the message and went on to the next one.
The next message was about Kaepernick. As was the next one. And the next one. And...
They all begin pretty much the same way: Jim, AS A VETERAN, what do you think about this? Well?
Let me answer all the messages at once __________ AS A VETERAN, what do I think about Colin Kaepernick's decision to sit during the National Anthem?
As a veteran?
Very well, as a veteran then, this is what I believe:
The very first thing I learned in the military is this: Respect is a two-way street. If you want respect, true respect, sincere respect, then you have to GIVE IT.
If you want respect, you have to do the things necessary to earn it each and every single day. There are no short cuts and no exceptions.
Respect cannot be compelled.
Respect cannot be bought.
Respect cannot be inherited.
Respect cannot be demanded at the muzzle of a gun or by beating it into somebody or by shaming them into it. Can not. You might get what you think is respect, but it's not. It's only the appearance of respect. It's fear, it's groveling, it's not respect. Far, far too many people both in and out of the military, people who should emphatically know better, do not understand this simple fact: there is an enormous difference between fear and respect.
Respect has to be earned.
Respect. Has. To. Be. Earned.
Respect has to be earned every day, by every word, by every action.
It takes a lifetime of words and deeds to earn respect.
It takes only one careless word, one thoughtless action, to lose it.
You have to be worthy of respect. You have to live up to, or at least do your best to live up to, those high ideals -- the ones America supposedly embodies, that shining city on the hill, that exceptional nation we talk about, yes, that one. To earn respect you have to be fair. You have to have courage. You must embrace reason. You have to know when to hold the line and when to compromise. You have to take responsibility and hold yourself accountable. You have to keep your word. You have to give respect, true respect, to get it back. There are no short cuts. None.
Now, any veteran worth the label should know that. If they don't, then likely they weren't much of a soldier to begin with and you can tell them I said so.
IF Kaepernick doesn't feel his country respects him enough for him to respect it in return, well, then you can't MAKE him respect it. You can not make him respect it.
If you try to force a man to respect you, you'll only make him respect you less.
With threats, by violence, by shame, you can maybe compel Kaepernick to stand up and put his hand over his heart and force him to be quiet. You might.
But that's not respect.
It's only the illusion of respect.
You might force this man into the illusion of respect. You might. Would you be satisfied then? Would that make you happy? Would that make you respect your nation, the one which forced a man into the illusion of respect, a nation of little clockwork patriots all pretending satisfaction and respect? Is that what you want? If THAT's what matters to you, the illusion of respect, then you're not talking about freedom or liberty. You're not talking about the United States of America. Instead you're talking about every dictatorship from the Nazis to North Korea where people are lined up and MADE to salute with the muzzle of a gun pressed to the back of their necks.
That, that illusion of respect, is not why I wore a uniform.
That's not why I held up my right hand and swore the oath and put my life on the line for my country.
That, that illusion of respect, is not why I am a veteran.
Not so a man should be forced to show respect he doesn't feel.
That's called slavery and I have no respect for that at all.
If Americans want this man to respect America, then first they must respect him.
If America wants the world's respect, it must be worthy of respect.
America must be worthy of respect. Torture, rendition, indefinite detention, unarmed black men shot down in the street every day, poverty, inequality, voter suppression, racism, bigotry in every form, obstructionism, blind patriotism, NONE of those things are worthy of respect from anybody -- least of all an American.
But doesn't it also mean that if Kaepernick wants respect, he must give it first? Give it to America? Be worthy of respect himself? Stand up, shut up, and put his hand over his heart before Old Glory?
No. It doesn't.
Respect doesn't work that way.
Power flows from positive to negative. Electricity flows from greater potential to lesser.
The United States isn't a person, it's a vast construct, a framework of law and order and civilization designed to protect the weak from the ruthless and after more than two centuries of revision and refinement it exists to provide in equal measure for all of us the opportunity for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The United States is POWER.
All the power rests with America. Just as it does in the military chain of command. And like that chain of command, like the electrical circuit described above, respect must flow from greater to lesser FIRST before it can return.
To you the National Anthem means one thing, to Kaepernick it means something else. We are all shaped and defined by our experiences and we see the world through our own eyes. That's freedom. That's liberty. The right to believe differently. The right to protest as you will. The right to demand better. The right to believe your country can BE better, that it can live up to its sacred ideals, and the right to loudly note that it has NOT. The right to use your voice, your actions, to bring attention to the things you believe in. The right to want more for others, freedom, liberty, justice, equality, and RESPECT. A true veteran might not agree with Colin Kaepernick, but a true veteran would fight to the death to protect his right to say what he believes.
You don't like what Kaepernick has to say? Then prove him wrong, BE the nation he can respect.
---- 39 years old, MH is 43 TTC since 2010; Dx Unexplained Infertility; possible male factor 6 IUIs, 1 IVF, 2 FETs, 1 mmc, 1 CP Started Adoption process Feb 2015, officially waiting July 2015
I know Larry happened. Please do not try to convince me otherwise. Please don't talk to me about coffee. I don't drink it. I don't caffeine. When I state my opinion, that is me chiming in on a topic. This is not me saying you suck at life if you do or feel differently. If I want to say that, I will. If I want to speak on you, I will.
I have zero feels about this, TBH. I am not a football fan.
But what does cross my mind when I hear about this is how unbalanced it is between the athletes and the cheerleaders. I mean, I know it isn't the same thing, but the cheerleaders have rules about how much makeup to wear and what to use to apply it with and what kind of underwear to use. If one of them pulled that they would be fired so fast. Never mind if they committed crimes and domestic assault etc.
Which isn't really germain to any of this, but it is where my thoughts go when I hear about it.
I know Larry happened. Please do not try to convince me otherwise. Please don't talk to me about coffee. I don't drink it. I don't caffeine. When I state my opinion, that is me chiming in on a topic. This is not me saying you suck at life if you do or feel differently. If I want to say that, I will. If I want to speak on you, I will.
I know Larry happened. Please do not try to convince me otherwise. Please don't talk to me about coffee. I don't drink it. I don't caffeine. When I state my opinion, that is me chiming in on a topic. This is not me saying you suck at life if you do or feel differently. If I want to say that, I will. If I want to speak on you, I will.
Omg. @jboogie , you need to be resting. Not arguing with racist, stupid people.
But, yeah, some of the arguments against him are horrible.
it was a safe way for me to test my vocabulary coming back! I had aphasia. The ppl were from San Francisco and one even had the nerve to suggest that because he was raised by white ppl, he didn't even understand the issues. My doc also told me that my medicine may make me aggressive so I kept asking my husband if I was being too aggressive. He told me to keep battling.
omg ILY. Conducting your own ST and OT by putting racist neanderthals in their place. #multitasking
Plus do you actually need to watch the bills. We know the general outcome
I've been holding onto hope since I was old enough to watch football. I actually got DS a bills shirt to wear this year but h is less than pleased with it.
What does everyone think will happen now that the 49ers have been rumored to have cut him? I feel like all its going to do is make the ignorant feel like they won.
My brother got into an argument on Facebook about this today. This guy was basically saying that since he makes millions of dollars and the fact that we have a black president oppression doesn't exist anymore. When my brother pushed back the guy said he was part of the problem and called my brother an idiot. It shocks me that people refuse to see that there is an issue and instead attack others.
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