When is it ok to "lean out" professionally?

[14joa31]

Today I told my boss that I don't want to go to the full World Customs Committee that meets for two weeks twice a year in Brussels. I asked to be put on the smaller subcommittee that only meets for one week twice a year. Being gone two weeks in a row is just too hard on my kids. DS was a royal terror when I returned and it really wore me down.

On one hand, I am relieved. On the other hand, I feel like I'm a disappointment to feminists everywhere - Sheryl Sandberg, The Oprah - the entire pantheon of women. How do you all feel about leaning out because of family concerns?

[Lollipop]

I SAH and have never had an actual career, so take this with a grain of salt. I think that it depends on you personally. What is more important to you? For me, I would 100% cut back on work to be home more. For other people, maybe they want to work more, or maybe it's easier on their kids or their kids are more adaptable.

Basically, I don't think there is any right answer, you just have to do whatever works best for you and your family.

[dizzycooks]

I'll get back to you later tonight. I'm on my way to my very pt job I took up rather than teaching this year....

[scorpioscuba]

Ugh. I've been leaning out for awhile to be honest. I'm a manager and my leadership is frequently trying to get me to put myself in for higher level positions on the road to an executive role. I'm honestly not interested in that long term. I've been using the excuse that I can't relocate until H is out of school which is working so far. Then once he gets a job in his new field we can re evaluate my career. I'd prefer something less stressful and more like part time while my kids are young.

Ultimately I'd like to be able to find work doing something I am more passionate about. But I don't have the time or the luxury to figure that out right now being the single income earner.

All that said to really say it is an individual decision and you have to do what is right for you and your family. If I were more passionate about my career I might feel differently.

[scorpioscuba]

14joa31, is your boss male or female? How did he/she react?

[scorpioscuba]

With all that said I feel it's terrible that you even have to second guess what is best for your family at this point in time. It's terrible that our society tries to make women choose between family and career and make it next to impossible for those of us who want or need to do both.

[kcrkcs]

I am lucky to have L with me at work whether home or traveling. That being said were that not the case I would probably cut back my travel. The time goes so quick. Our jobs are important but this is our family. Obviously it's the balance that works for you that is most important. But choosing to value your time with your family is not a disappointment to feminists etc. it is showing that you can both work at a high level and draw the boundaries that you need to support your lovies and allow you to be in the best space to do good work.

[14joa31]

My boss is a woman and she is very cool. After I asked to move down to the subcommittee, she just said "sure no problem." I then asked if she thought I was disappointing feminists everywhere. She said no and gave me a piece of chocolate

[14joa31]

Nov 28, 2016 18:46:23 GMT -5 scorpioscuba said:

With all that said I feel it's terrible that you even have to second guess what is best for your family at this point in time. It's terrible that our society tries to make women choose between family and career and make it next to impossible for those of us who want or need to do both.

This is exactly how I feel all the time.

[tinydancer]

14joa31, I think now is a great time to lean out. I've had similar thoughts, but I keep reminding myself that the kids are young for such a short amount of time, and you can't get it back. On the other hand, over the course of your career, it's probably just a few years, and those conferences will be there in the future. Many of the women whose careers I admire have had kids and pulled back for a few years when their kids were young, and it was no big deal in the long run.

Personally, I've been on an 80% schedule since going back to work (for me, this means about 45 hours/week, on average), and I don't think I've ever been happier. I really enjoy my work (it's a nice break from baby!) but I also feel like I have the time I want to devote to my family.

It's tough to balance it all though - I hope the new subcommittee is more manageable.

[scorpioscuba]

Nov 28, 2016 22:05:51 GMT -5 tinydancer said:

14joa31 , I think now is a great time to lean out. I've had similar thoughts, but I keep reminding myself that the kids are young for such a short amount of time, and you can't get it back. On the other hand, over the course of your career, it's probably just a few years, and those conferences will be there in the future. Many of the women whose careers I admire have had kids and pulled back for a few years when their kids were young, and it was no big deal in the long run.

Personally, I've been on an 80% schedule since going back to work (for me, this means about 45 hours/week, on average), and I don't think I've ever been happier. I really enjoy my work (it's a nice break from baby!) but I also feel like I have the time I want to devote to my family.

It's tough to balance it all though - I hope the new subcommittee is more manageable.

Totally agree! It's tough though when you have leadership that doesn't see it this way. In my company, our new HR VP (I'm in HR so ultimately she is my highest level "boss") has 2 daughters. Her youngest is 6 and became pregnant with her when she moved into our company. Since that time she has seen a meteoric rise into our company and has relocated umpteen times. I know the demands of that job and the jobs she has held the last 5 years. LONG hours and extensive travel. Like 75%. I don't know how her young children even know who she is. It's tough to have a female leader like this who seems to put career before family and then wonder if her choices impact how she sees young high potential women with young families underneath her. I wish I had leaders like you have tinydancer and 14joa31. SaveSave

[dizzycooks]

When I started my current job 5 years ago I told them I was pregnant after receiving an offer. I gauged his response to the news before accepting the job. It was positive so I took the job and took my maternity leave.
I did that two more times taking progressively longer leaves.
I know I'm hurting my earning potential by taking a year or two off. I can't get that back. I can't get my retirement contributions back. I personally don't care. Dh has had a hard time with it, but he came around obviously because our family is generally comfortable.
I don't regret it at all, but I think it really depends on your family's needs and your own aspirations.

[crimsonandclover]

I really wanted an academic career. Really. But I had to choose between having a settled family or living with insecurity for 10+ more years while relocating all over the Western world, and while I alone might have enjoyed moving to Berlin for a year and then England for a year and then settling down somewhere in the US, I decided that would put too much strain on my marriage and kids. So I didn't just lean out, I stepped out (almost) completely.
I work as a freelance academic translator and part-time as a university translator, and I am happy. I still feel a lot of regret that I am not pursuing my academic career, and sometimes I feel resentful about it because I feel like the German system still strongly relies on one parent (i.e. mom) being home at all times. I feel like the system made me choose to get out of my career of choice. It's not entirely true, though, most of it was me not being willing to drag my family all over the place for many more years before *hopefully* getting a professorship somewhere.

Anyway, I get it. I feel like I'm a disappointment to the professors at my institute who supported me and to women everywhere who want to have kids and have an academic career.

But in the end, I'm happy. I like where we live, I love being settled, I love having a permanent position (in Germany it's basically like having tenure - I would have to do something pretty drastic to get fired), I love the interesting work I get with my freelance stuff, and I definitely love the income I make with the freelance work. Per hour it's actually probably even compatible with what I would have made as a professor but without the required long hours. And I think that is all more important that being able to be held up as a feminist role model. I don't want my kids to resent me and think I placed my career over them, and I don't want them to do that to their kids.

[silverspoon]

I'm the only person that does what I do at our organization so there is a direct impact when I'm not around. I'm still somewhat dealing with the effects of that from my maternity leave. I'll never be able to cut back as far as time day to day in the office.

Some days I think I want more career wise. I think I would like to work towards a promotion or more (more isn't really possible, but different) responsibility as our business grows, but then I remember that I want to clock out at 5 and solely be focused on home.

[NellieOleson]

Nov 28, 2016 18:46:23 GMT -5 scorpioscuba said:

With all that said I feel it's terrible that you even have to second guess what is best for your family at this point in time. It's terrible that our society tries to make women choose between family and career and make it next to impossible for those of us who want or need to do both.

This.

I was going to write a lot more, but this sums it up.

[NellieOleson]

crimsonandclover - That is really interesting to me about German SAHMs. I guess I assumed it was like many other European countries where there are relatively few SAHMs because of their generous maternity leave and child care.

[14joa31]

Thanks to everyone so much for your thoughtful and well-considered responses! tinydancer - I am relieved to hear that you know women who leaned out for a few years and it didn't impact their careers long-term. I'm hoping that's my situation as well.
crimsonandclover - it sounds like you made the right choice, although it was a tough one. Could you ever go back and finish your studies after your LOs are a bit older? Or would it still require moving around?
scorpioscuba - there is NO WAY I could work long days and be away from my kids as much as your boss. That really breaks my heart!

[crimsonandclover]

Nov 30, 2016 8:39:01 GMT -5 14joa31 said:

crimsonandclover - it sounds like you made the right choice, although it was a tough one. Could you ever go back and finish your studies after your LOs are a bit older? Or would it still require moving

It would still require moving. In Germany to become a professor a PhD isn't enough. You have to do another big work called a "habilitation" which is basically just a second book or several articles published in high-ranking journals. Then, to ensure a mixture of different schools of thought and discourage nepotism (whatever, that happens all the time anyway), you are not allowed to take a professorship at the university where you did your habilitation. That means that either I would have to move for the habilitation part (takes around 6ish years) or I would have to move to get a professorship. Plus in my field if you don't have international research experience you don't have a chance at a professorship, so there would have to be several periods of research abroad during those 6 years. Nope.

NellieOleson, the problem is childcare. Up until very recently, in our town of about 6000 people there were 20 (count them, 20) full-time daycare/preschool spots for children aged 3-6. And full-time means 40 hours. So if you work a 40-hour work week, then you would basically have to work IN the daycare and not take any lunch breaks. But if you have any sort of commute or if you like to eat lunch, then you absolutely have to have someone else either take your child or pick them up. Plus schools are only half-day with 1-3 afternoons / week, and in a lot of schools if a teacher is sick then that period just gets cancelled and the kids go home for it. If it's the first period of the day and they know in advance then they go in late, if it's the last period of the day they go home early. There are lots of other structural issues, but that's just a few of them.