I need this thread too. We are going so backward with progress. I have no clue what our first step will be yet, but "Hi, I'm Kleigh and my children need help sleeping".
I need this thread too. We are going so backward with progress. I have no clue what our first step will be yet, but "Hi, I'm Kleigh and my children need help sleeping".
Check out the website tgrimes posted at the top. I took the plunge. You can request no cry methods and start of cosleeping and convert to getting them in their own space. That sealed the deal for me.
@sarahwithanh I think the suggestions tgrimes1980 were spot on re: consistency with bed and wake times. And I also agree that he is in a unique situation. He may need more than the average 6 mo old because he is growing a lot right now, physically and developmentally. He is probably making up for all his "sick" time. I would just keep trying to stick to a routine or at least try to monitor what his natural routine is right now. As you said, it's going to be really hard with all his appts.
95% of the time he will sleep if we go anywhere. The car and stroller knock him out. I carried him in the ktan facing out yesterday thinking seeing the animals would keep him awake. Nope. He lasted 1 he and this was after a 3 hr nap. He is so tired. He also really isn't awake that long at night. He just wants to be held and goes back to sleep.
Because of his unique situation, I'd recommend a sleep consultant, if you can afford it. I'm not sure what they cost. Maybe sophiegrace can tell you if she saw any packages.
The first thing it asked was if your baby was born within 4 weeks if it's due date without complications. Maybe you can shot them an email asking to clarify the reasoning? Especially since they do offer a no cry, stay in the room approach if desired.
The first thing it asked was if your baby was born within 4 weeks if it's due date without complications. Maybe you can shot them an email asking to clarify the reasoning? Especially since they do offer a no cry, stay in the room approach if desired.
@sarahwithanh
Did you join? How much did it cost?
Edit: NVM. I found out about prices. Our pedatrician said he was going to walk is through it and I need to try a routine first. Then we will go from there.
Thats great that your pediatrician is going to help out with a plan. I'm sure you're at their mercy, but is it at all possible that all of his appointments can be close to the same time throughout the week? I'm trying to think of a way we can help you out with a routine. Not that I'm at all qualified to be giving advice right now.
Post by sophiegrace on May 12, 2017 22:30:01 GMT -5
I'm getting me personalized sleep plan end of next week. I was completely transparent with my nursing to sleep dependency and why I cosleep. They offer the option for minimal cry methods and I requested that, but am willing to be more aggressive with it if need be because of her stubborn personality.
Until then I am going to revert back to what worked before. Eat. Bedtime routine, nurse until she's full, into the dockatot and have my hand on her until she goes to sleep. It was a bit torturous tonight and took 2.5 hours, but she finally did fall asleep.
@sarahwithanh Monty has a busier life than I do! I think others have given really good advice to far and I'm happy your ped is willing to help you make a plan for sleeping! All I ever got from our ped re sleep was judgement! I know you can't do much about moving appts but for errands, can you group those all into 1 day out of the week? I know, easier said than done, but that way it minimizes the amount of time he's sleeping while out and about?
Post by sophiegrace on May 13, 2017 7:54:19 GMT -5
That's intense @sarahwithanh. I assumed that's how it would be, by seeing it all in the calendar is shocking. I figured you wouldn't have much control over when the appointments are, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.
I'm wondering...is there a way to get the bedtime routine down pat without messing with nap schedules? It almost seems to be to your benefit right now that he can sleep to and from appointments. If you were to get a rigid nap schedule down, it would be a disaster every other day when appointments interfered. And I'm going out on a limb and guessing everyone involved wants him to be as content and engaging as possible for his PT and OT visits.
I guess, if that's even possible, the first thing I would do is keep a sleep log for a week or so. See exactly how many hours he's sleeping a day and when. You might be able to use that to steal an hour or two from his daytime sleep to help lengthen his nights.
E was a horrible sleeper and still has his moments, with him we, and by we I mean H, sleep trained him at 8mo. We've had to retrain him a few times and each time has been easier than the first. A few things were key for getting sleep to a much better place: Figuring out bedtime and what that looked like. This took a while because I was learning his sleep cues and anytime he was overtired it was almost impossible to get him to sleep. Then it was establishing a bedtime routine. This has changed slightly over time, swapping out nursing with a sippy cup with milk, adding in brushing teeth, etc. but it's always remained essentially the same. Finally, and this took me the longest to figure out was the spacing between him waking from his afternoon nap and going down at bedtime. This was a game changer for us. E would go down for his afternoon nap and I always thought that I shouldn't wake him up because if he was sleeping then he was obviously tired. He'd sleep until 4:30 or even 5. I couldn't figure out why he wasn't tired at 7 for bedtime. It's rare these days, but if he's still asleep at 4pm, I wake him up or he won't be tired at 7. It took a while to figure out that magical equation of how much time needed to be between that last wake up and bedtime. Once we figured that out, bedtime got easier.
You hit the nail on the head tjanca22. That space in between last name and bed is crucial. I don't let B sleep past 3:30 because I want him tired by 7:30 and his bedtime routine started by 8.
My MIL always lets him stay up late and it drives me insane. I always tell her when she comes over to put B to bed at 8. Last Friday when she babysat, she put him down at 9:30!!!!! She said he wasn't tired and they were happily playing. And she said "I bet he'll sleep late for you tomorrow morning!" LOLZ kid was up at 6. Thanks for that!!
Ours sounds like the same routine. Can't sleep past 4 or else he won't be tired for bedtime routine to start at 7 and out by 7:30. I still don't understand why people think kids will just sleep in! HA! If anything it's the opposite!
Post by sophiegrace on May 15, 2017 13:19:11 GMT -5
Any STMs notice sleep improvements in between times of teething? Is that sometimes enough to throw sleep for a loop if it's a baby more sensitive to things like that?
Any STMs notice sleep improvements in between times of teething? Is that sometimes enough to throw sleep for a loop if it's a baby more sensitive to things like that?
Well I kind of did CIO for nap time along with the awake to sleep method and got almost a 2hr nap out of him. I say kind of because I put him down out of frustration and needed to walk away. By the time I collected myself he fell asleep.
I am thinking maybe it would work at night after all, but is it ok to do it for some but not all wake ups? Or would that not be best? I feel like he may really still want to eat in the early morning hours say after 3am and I can be ok with that for now but it's the before 3 that I want to get settled.
O's sleep was always effected by teething. Often for weeks at a time. It sucked. But in between, he was able to return to his sleep trained self. sophiegrace
aggiebug With O, if it was more than 3 hours than I would usually feed him. Anything less led to check ins (what we did for sleep training). He still learned the skill of putting himself to sleep with that inconsistency.
Well I kind of did CIO for nap time along with the awake to sleep method and got almost a 2hr nap out of him. I say kind of because I put him down out of frustration and needed to walk away. By the time I collected myself he fell asleep.
I am thinking maybe it would work at night after all, but is it ok to do it for some but not all wake ups? Or would that not be best? I feel like he may really still want to eat in the early morning hours say after 3am and I can be ok with that for now but it's the before 3 that I want to get settled.
If you still think he needs to eat at night. Feed him. Decide on a time frame you're comfortable with so if you're okay feeding after 3, then let him try to work out the wake ups before 3 on his own. You may find that if you're laying him down awake and he's falling asleep on his own that you have less wake ups.
Hopefully.
If he is awake when I put him down he screams. I was also wondering this. Show we so CIO when I put him to bed?
If he is awake when I put him down he screams. I was also wondering this. Show we so CIO when I put him to bed?
It's all up to you & what you're comfortable with. When I trained M, I laid her down awake for every nap & bedtime. She slept through the night on day 1 and I never had to worry about her waking in the MOTN.
1) I am so glad you were able to decipher that post. Yikes autocorrect and not paying attention.
2) Thanks for the input it makes sense. He is so good at falling asleep while nursing it makes it difficult, I have to work on his schedule to also help curb that.
Post by cookswithwine9 on May 16, 2017 7:57:24 GMT -5
Last week I think I accidentally sleep trained O. I thought he slept amazing all last week! I didn't hear even a peep all night! I felt amazing too! On Friday morning, after my H waking up telling me that O was screaming, I realized the monitor was muted! And probably had been all week! I felt terrible! He does sttn half the time so I'm not sure if that was the first time he really got upset or not.
I dipped my toe in the sleep training last night. AV has two things that are really affecting her sleep (1) she wants to gab/pull/hold my hair (have no idea where this came from) and (2) she is really going nuts with the rolling and switching positions etc and it disturbs her.
I've been trying to replace my hair with a lovey but she's really not taking it. At night in particular she gets upset if I don't let her grab/hold my hair. We are talking the wisps of hair at the nape of my neck or near my ears (my hair is in pony tail).
So last night I was really putting my foot down with the hair holding, I tried to let her still touch my face as she drifts off or hold my finger or her lovey but she was at an 11.
On top of it if she did start to drift, she'd go to roll and wake herself up. Previously I was helping to reposition her all night long. ALL NIGHT LONG.
So I did what I had to. I laid on the bed next to her and kept redirecting her hands to her own head or the lovey, and just patted her chest and kept repeating "I love you, good night, it's ok". Would not pick her up and would not let her hold my hair. She was rolling around like a gymnast screaming. I didn't leave her side and I just kept reassuring her I was there but would not give in and pick her up or help her resettle positions or let her hold my hair.
After about 15 mins she drifted off. Five mins later she woke up screaming. Another 15 mins before she drifted off.
That was it!!! Her only wake up was at 1am for food !!!
Post by sophiegrace on May 16, 2017 23:21:41 GMT -5
Got my sleep plan today. It was a rough night, but she finally fell asleep after an hour and 45 minutes. It's a gentle no cry plan, but LBH if it were that easy I probably wouldn't have had to pay someone to tell me how to get my baby to sleep. She cried, a lot. And I felt like my heart was falling to pieces. But I'm doing this for her. Sleep is vital and she needs to know that it's ok to fall asleep.
@tgrimes1989 a million thanks for directing me to the website. The plan is exactly what I needed to read. I feel like she was in my head when she put it together.
Post by sophiegrace on May 17, 2017 14:35:35 GMT -5
I'm at wits end. I feel like I can't even be here for support because my tank is absolutely empty at this point.
Secondary to consistency to get the plan to work was to get M enough nap sleep during the day, by whatever means possible, so that she was as happy as could be going into bedtime.
SHE. WON'T. NAP.
Nothing. Nothing will get her to nap. We've gotten an average of 20-45 minutes over an entire daytime for many days in a row now. Email the sleep consultant. No advice, call the pediatrician, that's not normal. Call the pediatrician. He says she's thriving and perfectly normal and just doesn't know how to shut her brain off. Get her to nap by whatever means necessary.
WTF?!!!! There are NO means getting this child to sleep right now. Screaming, choking, gagging if I leave her alone. It goes on for hours. Laughing and smiling if I hold her. No interest in nursing. I have gone through and even written down everything mentioned by everyone here. No luck. Multiple sleep books. No luck. Now even a sleep consultant is throwing me a shrug.
Like I see these "my baby CIO for 15, 30, 45 minutes and then was good to go" posts and instead of feeling happy about it like I used to I'm feeling extremely jealous. My baby cries for hours during a no cry sleep method. Last night was the first day of the official plan, but it was the same thing I'd been doing for a long ass time.
If I'm not around, it's not because I don't mean to be. I want to be able to be here and talk and joke and support...and I can't. My life has revolved around nothing but sleep for more months than not. Our entire lives are on hold, vacations have been cancelled, I don't leave the house for fear of missing the possibility of sleep. I'm just sick of having nothing to contribute.
sophiegrace I am so sorry. Lots and lots of hugs to you. Lots. It's ok to not contribute and to only "take' around here. You have given so much to many of us and we are here to offer a shoulder, and ear, a virtual hug whatever you need.
I am sorry sleep is running and ruining your life at the moment. I cannot imagine your level of frustration.
I really don't have advice for you, but I will say if you are feeling trapped in your house with the lack of sleep then get out of the house. Getting out will be good for your sanity and help you get through this really rough phase.
I am so so sorry sophiegrace 😩 I can't begin to imagine the struggle to even get her to nap. I will say though that one night I had where she "CIO" for two fifteen minute sessions was followed up with last night which was absolute bloody hell and the reason I didn't post today that we had success again. We didn't.
Please take take take all you need right now, you always give us all so much support.
To tgrimes thoughts I'll add any and everything I can think for you to try:
- car seat: in moving car, being rocked by you back anf forth, next to washing machine on spin cycle, in a dark room with black out curtains and "air" black noise (just like static tv noise from back in the day), in a click n go stroller - vibrating chair (bouncer, like the moveable fisher price ones) - cloth carrier facing inward - face down with butt being pat - firm surface or bouncy (soft) mattress - colic hold walked and rocked/swung around the house - bent over your knee (as if she was gonna be spanked but OBV NOT, patting her bottom) - carried/rocked by someone else? sometimes mom is stimulating - on a full stomach of solids PLUS nursing then being shushed and gently swing side to side in colic hold - in her car seat in a park with birds chirping (this one once worked for Adeline but took a solid two hours to get her down) - while watching Dave and Ava YouTube videos (not sure why but AV once got very sleepy at our friends house when they had this on for their daughter)
I'm really at a loss, I think if the sleep consultant is throwing her hands up its obvious M is one stubborn sleeper. I don't necessarily like that she said "that's not normal"... Ok, it's not common, but not normal? Who's to say that.
M must be going through about ten different things right now - growth spurt, teething, sitting/crawling gains, awareness, separation anxiety, etc - I mean any or all of this could be messing with her.
You got this, I KNOW YOU GOT THIS... They don't make 'em stronger than you.
When you think you've tried every option, start again and cycle through. She is going to get this sophiegrace, keep believing in her as I know you do!!!!!!!!!
I just want to add to waitwhat 's point she's exactly right. I have two little babies right here in front of me - TOTALLY DIFFERENT.
One loves sleep and naps every chance he's given, up to 5 naps a day still. He falls asleep LITERALLY the second you pick him up, literally out cold.
The other is so alert and aware and struggles with shutting off and if I'm lucky I get 3 naps out of her in a day - two 20 min naps and one 30-40 min nap. I spend an hour getting her to take a 20 min nap and you know the gdamn insanity she puts me through to get a nap. When she doesn't want to nap I literally say "f*ck it, let me know when you're tired" and I put her down or carry on with my day even if she whines.
They both go to bed by 6pm and won't let us keep them up any later than that ad they wake at 4am most days. It's absolute hell but it's not forever.
And two babies growing at the same time and they are SOOOOOO completely different with their sleep.
sophiegrace can I give you a big virtual hug? You have shown so much love and strength for not only M, but for all of us too. I know this must be beyond devastating for you to make a post like that. But we still love you and M still adores you too.
I think you've received lots of advice or ideas, the only question I have to add is regarding her reflux meds. IIRC, you've been weaning, or recently stopped them? But does she have some reflux returning that makes laying down intolerable?
I hope she gives you some loving cuddles tonight. You deserve that melt into you feeling.
Post by goldenlove3 on May 18, 2017 6:40:56 GMT -5
sophiegrace I'm so sorry that you're struggling with sleep issues. I feel like others said things much better than I could, but you are an amazing mom to M and an amazing friend to all of us. We love you. Don't ever feel like you're not giving enough because you've given SO much already.
Post by sophiegrace on May 18, 2017 18:57:50 GMT -5
Ok. I really love you guys. I wish I hadn't just thrown my hands in the air yesterday and gave up, because all of that would have definitely revived me. I definitely need to get into the 'carry on' mindset. Some days are complete washouts and I become a woman obsessed. When really, you are all right, I need to just KOKO with my day. I'm just so damn tired and my reasoning gets wonky.
This girl is pure fire and I hope she puts it to good use as she moves through life.
I'm not sure if this is worth looking into. On my old BMB, back in my lurking days, there was a girl who had a "high needs" baby. Just doing some light research and maybe this would be of interest to you? I don't know. But I feel like you are open to any and all suggestions at this point.
Post by sophiegrace on May 18, 2017 19:03:05 GMT -5
hangry That cycles through my mind. I know I mentioned my suspicions the other week, but we can't remember why. I've also been tossing the idea around of the possibility of more allergies, but idk. I keep thinking there's SOMETHING that can be changed, but then I also think that there are just bad sleepers and that's the card I drew.
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