Apparently I'm the exception here, but I feel like getting in on time and leaving 20 minutes early is pretty reasonable, unless there is something that absolutely needs to go out that day, and also if she can, say, cut her lunch or other breaks short to make up the 20 minutes.
I don't think I would have asked for that accommodation right away at a new job, but that's a huge quality of life issue if she's not getting home until 9:30 pm everyday.
I work in San Diego, though, which is known for being a little more laid back in terms of work hours, and my industry is one where I can sort of come and go a bit as long as I'm getting my work done and checking my phone regularly.
Part of the job is to be available for clients and to handle issues that come in during the business day. Among other things, we're in financial services and the fed wire system is still open until our end of day, so money can still move. (Just one example).
frozenpeas, I'm in financial services and need to be available for clients, too. But I think part of it might be that I'm on the West coast, so things like wiring and moving money end earlier in the day here, given the time difference.
frozenpeas, I'm in financial services and need to be available for clients, too. But I think part of it might be that I'm on the West coast, so things like wiring and moving money end earlier in the day here, given the time difference.
frozenpeas, I'm in financial services and need to be available for clients, too. But I think part of it might be that I'm on the West coast, so things like wiring and moving money end earlier in the day here, given the time difference.
I thought SD was for "South Dakota." Ha!!!
I typed San Diego. Jeez!
Ha! Big difference between South Dakota and San Diego
Post by frozenpeas on May 18, 2017 16:08:11 GMT -5
And so as not to leave any of you hanging--she quit. Never intended to move, so an early dismissal would have been put in place indefinitely. I offered to give her time to think it over/consider other options before making a rash decision, but no dice.
In case this place goes dark tomorrow, I didn't want you all to go to your grave wondering. 😀
And so as not to leave any of you hanging--she quit. Never intended to move, so an early dismissal would have been put in place indefinitely. I offered to give her time to think it over/consider other options before making a rash decision, but no dice.
In case this place goes dark tomorrow, I didn't want you all to go to your grave wondering. 😀
Wowzers. That's ridiculous that she didn't bring this up BEFORE she accepted the job. She definitely sounds like an entitled brat.
frozenpeas I feel you - I am down a consultant. Dreading not only the whole hiring thing but the investment of time that retraining is. Ugh. The worst.
I'm late to the party and see that she already quit. Sheesh.
I agree that it is unreasonable of her to automatically expect that she could leave early every day at a brand new, entry level, client facing job. I can understanding hoping that she'll be able to slip out early on slow days, but would not expect that to be the norm if everyone else is there until at least 5:00 every day.
It does depend a lot on the company and the culture. My first job out of college was at a defense contractor, and I had to meticulously track my time. But as long as I got my hours in, I had a ton of flexibility with timing. I worked a 9/80 schedule and core hours were 9:00-3:00 with everyone working different variations of start/end time, and I could use bank modified time to flex my hours further. The exact opposite was DH's first job (Wall St. bank) where his boss expected him to be the first to arrive and last to leave, even if he had nothing to do, and I don't think he took his first vacation day until nearly a year on the job.
Post by librarychica on May 18, 2017 21:30:05 GMT -5
Well this thread was a roller coaster! At least she didn't drag it out.
I do have some sympathy for her. I took a job right out of college that I should have known would logistically not work well. I was young, broke and desperate. I quit 6 months in and my manager screamed at me and then legal made me pay them $1,000 (I had signed a two year contact and 5 year noncompete that was "just a formality.") It sucked for me, sucked for them, just sucked. I would guess he talked herself into accepting the job and then went "now what do I do?!"
I'd bet you dollars to donuts that she was getting advice from family/friends - she probably complained about the hours and her commute and someone was telling her "Oh- wait until you start, but when you do, just ask if you can leave a little early each day. I'm SURE they'll let you!!!!".
Then you didn't and.... so she quit.
I hope she learns from this. The fact that she quit tells me that she won't. But... one can hope.
Wow. Well, she is bold, that's all I can say. I can't believe this didn't come up before she accepted the position, but hopefully this was a learning experience for her to think about these things *before* accepting and starting a new job.
Post by mustardseed2007 on May 19, 2017 9:11:11 GMT -5
The result was inevitable. Someone with her lack of foresight and attitude was not ever going to work out. Lucky this ended now and not 4 weeks from now, but it sucks she didn't bring this up sooner. Like before she accepted the job.
Post by traveltheworld on May 19, 2017 10:50:40 GMT -5
I went out to dinner last night with our external law firm and we all got into a venting fest about how "young people" these days all seem to have this sense of entitlement - they expect the world to make accommodations for them. Then I realized that I was going to ask DS's teachers at preschool to make special accommodations for the fact that he doesn't like to write with pencils, so they should give him these special triangular pencils that I bought for him. So the problems start young, and with the parents. The triangular pencils will not be used.
I told her manager yesterday to tell her this isn't possible at this time. It's important for her to be in the office during work hours both for the good of the team and for her own benefit. A big part of the job is figuring out how to handle issues she can't plan for & it wouldn't be unusual for those to come up at the end of the day. She has a unique opportunity to work alongside the current employee for the next few months before he leaves and she should take advantage of that while she can, before she's left to handle it all on her own. I suggested he tell her we can revisit this in 30 days (or 4 weeks, or whatever he thinks appropriate) if it's still an issue for her at that time.
As for what he actually told her, who knows. I suspect it wasn't exactly the above and he more or less said "Management said no, not until you've been here longer". She wasn't satisfied and escalated to me, so I'm scheduled for a call with her today.
As an aside, I left it to her manager's discretion to let her go early on a case by case basis if a day was particularly slow. But I wanted that to be the exception and not something she came to expect.
Now that she's quit, the other angle to this saga is the guy who was her manager. Why was he so uncomfortable telling her "no" and why did he make you be the bad guy? Did he disagree with you and think she should be able to leave early everyday or is he someone who hates to be the bad guy and wants to the good cop? It sounds like there may be some development opportunity here in regards to his handling of the people reporting to him.
I mention this because I once reported to a (pretty senior) manager who couldn't tell anyone "no" outright or giving bad news. He would just ignore emails that contained tough questions. He'd tap dance and give wishy-washy answers, promising to follow up with a resolution that never came. And any negative news was blamed on corporate or HR or policy, even when he was senior enough that he totally did have to power to work around those issues. He probably thought he was being a good guy, but it was infuriating. I much prefer bosses who will talk to me straight, even if they are turning me down on something.
Post by frozenpeas on May 19, 2017 14:41:17 GMT -5
Yes, saraml13--agreed, and it's a known issue. We've been working on it and this was a learning experience for him, too. I knew going into it I was giving him a free pass by saying he could punt to me if she objected, but he has been stretched very thin lately and I weighed just doing this for him against giving him one more stressful task to tackle. Actually, the fact that he's slammed is a big part of why I didn't want someone on his team, in particular, regularly leaving early, He needs help, not someone else to cover for. Anyway, just telling her no (for any reason) was a step in the right direction for him, but we both know more coaching is needed.
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