Talk to me about luteal phases

[Deleted]

Apr 15, 2015 11:53:07 GMT -5 joy said:

GM's answer is what I was trying to say.

So basically our bodies are confusing assholes? lol

[pismoduo]

Apr 15, 2015 11:07:46 GMT -5 mugster said:

My post O temps never hit 98 (but I do temp orally).

This is me. I sometimes hit 98.0 exactly, but never above it. And I also temp orally.

[mugster]

Apr 15, 2015 11:51:49 GMT -5 joy said:

Apr 15, 2015 11:46:31 GMT -5 @erin2021 said:

So if your temps are high post O, then your progesterone can't be low? I have sky rocket temps after I ovulate, like 98.8. Would that mean I have high progesterone? Sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm just trying to understand it all.

Personally, I do not think it works like that.

I did think that luteal phase length was tied to height of progesterone but I don't think it's that cut and dry either.

One of the studies that I read had a venn diagram to show that studies indicate there might be at least two distinct kinds of luteal phase defect. Some women have <10 luteal phases and some have low progesterone and those two populations overlap, but not perfectly. They also found that different populations were more likely to have one problem vs. the other. Lower body mass was more likely to have a shorter luteal phase, for example. So yeah, it isn't cut and dry.

[joy]

Apr 15, 2015 11:55:01 GMT -5 @erin2021 said:

Apr 15, 2015 11:53:07 GMT -5 joy said:

GM's answer is what I was trying to say.

So basically our bodies are confusing assholes? lol

Mine certainly is.

[SheilaTheTank]

Apr 15, 2015 11:57:14 GMT -5 mugster said:

Apr 15, 2015 11:51:49 GMT -5 joy said:

Personally, I do not think it works like that.

I did think that luteal phase length was tied to height of progesterone but I don't think it's that cut and dry either.

One of the studies that I read had a venn diagram to show that studies indicate there might be at least two distinct kinds of luteal phase defect. Some women have <10 luteal phases and some have low progesterone and those two populations overlap, but not perfectly. They also found that different populations were more likely to have one problem vs. the other. Lower body mass was more likely to have a shorter luteal phase, for example. So yeah, it isn't cut and dry.

Do you have a link to this study? It would be interesting to read up on. 

[mugster]

Apr 15, 2015 12:02:00 GMT -5 SheilaTheTank said:

Apr 15, 2015 11:57:14 GMT -5 mugster said:

One of the studies that I read had a venn diagram to show that studies indicate there might be at least two distinct kinds of luteal phase defect. Some women have <10 luteal phases and some have low progesterone and those two populations overlap, but not perfectly. They also found that different populations were more likely to have one problem vs. the other. Lower body mass was more likely to have a shorter luteal phase, for example. So yeah, it isn't cut and dry.

Do you have a link to this study? It would be interesting to read up on. 

I think it was this one: link

[adorebel]

FWIW, I got pregnant the very first time I had unprotected sex in my whole life, which was last September, and my LP is only ever between 9 and 11 days.

Of course we lost the baby at 15 weeks and we are on our third round of trying post-loss with no repeat luck. But still.

[pismoduo]

Apr 15, 2015 11:57:14 GMT -5 mugster said:

Apr 15, 2015 11:51:49 GMT -5 joy said:

Personally, I do not think it works like that.

I did think that luteal phase length was tied to height of progesterone but I don't think it's that cut and dry either.

One of the studies that I read had a venn diagram to show that studies indicate there might be at least two distinct kinds of luteal phase defect. Some women have <10 luteal phases and some have low progesterone and those two populations overlap, but not perfectly. They also found that different populations were more likely to have one problem vs. the other. Lower body mass was more likely to have a shorter luteal phase, for example. So yeah, it isn't cut and dry.

I've read quite a few things that seem to indicate a lack of B vitamin can contribute as well. Or at least, that increasing B vitamin (particularly B6) can sometimes help lengthen it.

[mugster]

Apr 15, 2015 13:01:31 GMT -5 pismoduo said:

Apr 15, 2015 11:57:14 GMT -5 mugster said:

One of the studies that I read had a venn diagram to show that studies indicate there might be at least two distinct kinds of luteal phase defect. Some women have <10 luteal phases and some have low progesterone and those two populations overlap, but not perfectly. They also found that different populations were more likely to have one problem vs. the other. Lower body mass was more likely to have a shorter luteal phase, for example. So yeah, it isn't cut and dry.

I've read quite a few things that seem to indicate a lack of B vitamin can contribute as well. Or at least, that increasing B vitamin (particularly B6) can sometimes help lengthen it.

I tried this, and actually did have one luteal phase that was 12. The next month it fell back to 10 and has stayed there (still taking the B vitamins).

[Deleted]

I heard omega-3's can help with ovulation. Has anyone heard of this?

[pismoduo]

Apr 15, 2015 13:05:33 GMT -5 mugster said:

Apr 15, 2015 13:01:31 GMT -5 pismoduo said:

I've read quite a few things that seem to indicate a lack of B vitamin can contribute as well. Or at least, that increasing B vitamin (particularly B6) can sometimes help lengthen it.

I tried this, and actually did have one luteal phase that was 12. The next month it fell back to 10 and has stayed there (still taking the B vitamins).

Interesting. I was wondering if this month's random 11 day LP was because I was much better about taking my PNVs this cycle than previous cycles.

[mugster]

Here is another interesting read (and the authors treat for LPD if less than 12 days...)

link

For @erin2021, according to this article: "A rise of approximately 2.5 ng/mL of progesterone will result in a
temperature elevation of nearly 1ºF. Interpretation of the BBT is based on this thermogenic shift Unfortunately, although BBT may be a sensitive indicator of ovulation, it is a poor indicator of the quality of the luteal phase. Neither the rate nor the magnitude of rise of the postovulatory temperature curve correlates with endometrial histology."

[Deleted]

Apr 15, 2015 13:10:52 GMT -5 pismoduo said:

Apr 15, 2015 13:05:33 GMT -5 mugster said:

I tried this, and actually did have one luteal phase that was 12. The next month it fell back to 10 and has stayed there (still taking the B vitamins).

Interesting. I was wondering if this month's random 11 day LP was because I was much better about taking my PNVs this cycle than previous cycles.

It could be, but i've been much more diligent about taking mine the past two months and mine have shortened.

[longhornwino0907]

Apr 15, 2015 11:03:58 GMT -5 joy said:

Apr 15, 2015 10:56:27 GMT -5 SheilaTheTank said:

I have a follow up question to this. For the the people who have shorter LP, do you normally have lower Post O BBT, like in the 97 to low 98 degree range?

I have nice, good length LPs.  My post-ovulation temps are in the mid to high 97s.  My pre-ovulation temps are in the high 96s to low 97s.

Same here. LP is 13-16 days, and my pre-O temps hover in the low 97s, post-O high 97s to low 98s.

[Deleted]

The discussion about B vitamins just reminded me I still need to get my vitamin b and d levels checked again. (My levels are chronically low even with taking supplements). I'm way overdue for my bloodwork.

[anonymouseliza]

Apr 15, 2015 11:52:18 GMT -5 ghostmonkey said:

Apr 15, 2015 11:46:31 GMT -5 @erin2021 said:

So if your temps are high post O, then your progesterone can't be low? I have sky rocket temps after I ovulate, like 98.8. Would that mean I have high progesterone? Sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm just trying to understand it all.

They can, it's just a matter of how your body reacts to the hormone change.

Just because something is an indicator of an issue doesn't guarantee you have it. Low pre-O temps can be an indicator of thyroid misfunction, but it might just be the way a person is. A small shift or low-ish post-O temps can be an indicator of low progesterone or low quality ovulation, or it might just be how that person reacts to the hormone shift.

On that note, while ttc 2008-2011, while I was at a higher weight and having long cycles and anovulatory cycles, my temps ere 95- 96 pre-O and low to high 97's post-O.  But my lp was consistently 11-12 dpo. 

That said, there is indication now that low progesterone was at play (probably due to 'weak ovulation' and delayed cycles).

This last go round - post-weight loss - my temps were higher over all, no change in lp length (11/12 days) and theoretically no progesterone issue (but that hasn't actually been tested due to a doc mix-up).

[anonymouseliza]

Apr 15, 2015 13:01:31 GMT -5 pismoduo said:

Apr 15, 2015 11:57:14 GMT -5 mugster said:

One of the studies that I read had a venn diagram to show that studies indicate there might be at least two distinct kinds of luteal phase defect. Some women have <10 luteal phases and some have low progesterone and those two populations overlap, but not perfectly. They also found that different populations were more likely to have one problem vs. the other. Lower body mass was more likely to have a shorter luteal phase, for example. So yeah, it isn't cut and dry.

I've read quite a few things that seem to indicate a lack of B vitamin can contribute as well. Or at least, that increasing B vitamin (particularly B6) can sometimes help lengthen it.

B vitamin complex is something I take for MTHFR and did nothing for me personally (but again . . . average lp length, so.)

[deelopi9]

Apr 15, 2015 11:52:18 GMT -5 ghostmonkey said:

Apr 15, 2015 11:46:31 GMT -5 @erin2021 said:

So if your temps are high post O, then your progesterone can't be low? I have sky rocket temps after I ovulate, like 98.8. Would that mean I have high progesterone? Sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm just trying to understand it all.

They can, it's just a matter of how your body reacts to the hormone change.

Just because something is an indicator of an issue doesn't guarantee you have it. Low pre-O temps can be an indicator of thyroid misfunction, but it might just be the way a person is. A small shift or low-ish post-O temps can be an indicator of low progesterone or low quality ovulation, or it might just be how that person reacts to the hormone shift.

This ^^^^^ When we first started testing through RE I was originally DX Weak Ovulation/Low progesterone/LPD. BEFORE RE FERTILITY FRIEND CHARTS: I do have hypothyroidism and RE indicated my BBT would be lower than "normal", pre O I would range from 95.3-95.9 and post O highest I would get would be 97.3. LP between 8-11 days.  Progesterone would not get over 3 7DPO.

WITH 1st RE and on Clomid/Femara: Although I did not get a BFP the drugs (given only w/monitoring) did help my LP, weak ovulation and w/progesterone suppositories.  Pre-O BBT: 96.8/Post-O BBT: 98.1.

Like the ladies said - every case is different since we are all different. For you ladies looking to help ovulation I recommend reading It Starts with the Egg. Adding CoQ10, Vitamin D. It's a good thing to have your PCP run labwork on T3, T4 & Thyroid antibodies. 

Edited: Added Monitored RE BBT's

[shadesofgold]

Yes @katerli! You're a wizard. Thank you!

[joy]

Apr 15, 2015 10:23:20 GMT -5 anonymouseliza said:

10+ is in the normal range. Hard not to worry, but normal. If you are nearing a year, post-O progesterone is one of the things they'll test.

My RE tested my post ovulation progesterone and said the number wouldn't tell him if I had low progesterone or not. It merely confirmed or denied ovulation.

My number was 4.5. I freaked that it was low. He was unconcerned. He said it changes hour to hour.

My luteal phases are 13 days.

It's a mess of conflicting info.

[joy]

Wait - zombie thread?? Fuck!

[Rama]

May 2, 2015 9:39:03 GMT -5 joy said:

Wait - zombie thread?? Fuck!

Happens to the best of us. We still love you, joy. ;)