billyhorrible Thank you so much for the encouraging words. You have no idea how much I needed to hear that. I have felt pretty defeated the past few days.
@amyg I know that babies take a while at this age (1 week) to empty the breast or at least get what they need but all the advice I'm reading says take cues from your baby as to when they're done. The problem is that he doesn't ever seem to be done, apart from falling asleep. I keep waking him up and he just goes on and on and on. Is this a sign he's not getting what he needs? Output seems to be more than on track (he hasn't had his weigh in yet this week).
He just never seems satisfied - not even after marathon feeding sessions when it seems there's nothing left to get out!
There is a a one week growth spurt where they need to eat all the time. So that's part of it.
But just as importantly they have never felt hunger or thirst. They've never not been attached in itero they were getting instant nutrition. They've never not been held and Comforted before. So they have to learn what tummy grumblings mean and what feeling full means. And they have to learn that it's ok to not be attached.
That all takes time as their brain grows and develops. Right now being close and being held is a need that is never satisfied even if there is enough food and that part is satisfied.
Of course you can't literally be attached 24/7 So it may mean feed one side 20 minutes. Burp change diaper feed other side twenty minutes. Then burp change diaper swaddle tightly and hand off to dad to hold and rock and comfort as well as he can maybe with a finger to suck on or judicious use of a pacifier while you go pee and eat and lay down with your eyes closed tightly for twenty minutes or long as you can before you do it all over again.
Keep in mind that this stage is very very hard but it doesn't last long. It will get better and it will get easier. In this moment being held is as much of a need as getting food.
Food is enough if there is good count of diapers. That's what You are looking for 6-8 minimum diapers a day if things are going well you may see 10-12 a day.
DD is going through insane cluster feeding right now. Today was a bit better but yesterday, for literally 12 hours, if she wasn't on the boob she was hysterical. I was so physically and emotionally drained. I got a little emotional toward 7 or 8 pm but DH was a champ for me. She ate and slept normally throughout the night and this morning. Around 1 she started cluster feeding again. I finally had to let her just drink/suck herself to sleep on my boob to catch a break. So this whole nursing every 2-3 hours during the day and 3-4 at night the pediatrician thinks is gonna happen. ..isn't. It also feels like a thousand needles in my nip when she latches and for the competing 20 or so seconds. Then it's just uncomfortable the rest of the feed. I know it won't last forever but I'm just worn down. I can't even pump so DH can help because I pump and pump and hardly anything comes out. So that's super fun. She's lucky I'm head over heels in love with her
Yeah when it's a nonstop cluster feeding growth spurt that 2-3 hours thing goes totally out the window. You just aim for that and then miss the mark completely sometimes.
If pain goes away for try most part after initial latching pain then latch is probably not bad and you just have to get used to it. That should get better soon.
Post by carolyngrace on Jun 21, 2015 16:11:08 GMT -5
Great article on listening to your body and baby's cues about how frequently to breastfeed, rather than obsessing about some outside perceived timeline..
Great article on listening to your body and baby's cues about how frequently to breastfeed, rather than obsessing about some outside perceived timeline..
You guys. If your back is hurting or you struggle to get comfy to nurse please go buy a My Breast Friend pillow. I've been using a Dr. Brown's Gia nursing pillow with bad posture and constant readjusting. I was crying in back pain today and finally requested my MIL grab me the pillow I thought was dorky and overly complicated. It's saved me already. I have huge floppy boobs so every feed so far has required 2 hands, if not 3 or 4 from my husband. I have a free hand now! Buy. The . Pillow.
I liked that article, carolyngrace. I've been trying to feed 2-3 hours but only because she's not waking up and showing hunger cues usually. When she does show me cues, I get everything ready to try to feed - even just a "snack"!
The pediatrician's office suggested we give her 1 oz of formula to supplement and make her poop and now it's one day later and she won't poop and she now won't nurse off the boob. I'm calling a LC tomorrow but I'm upset. I could get her to latch and feed until 6 hours ago (her last two feeds). Ugh. Tears have been flowing!
Post by carolyngrace on Jun 21, 2015 20:23:13 GMT -5
Ok question... I've had a few "shooting pains" in one of my breasts today. I thought it was from engorgement, but I just pumped a little to see if it would relieve the pressure and it didn't help. Is that a sign of mastitis or some other possible issue? Not sure how better to describe the pain...
Ok question... I've had a few "shooting pains" in one of my breasts today. I thought it was from engorgement, but I just pumped a little to see if it would relieve the pressure and it didn't help. Is that a sign of mastitis or some other possible issue? Not sure how better to describe the pain...
I thought shooting pains were associated more with thrush, but I could be wrong.
Does anyone else feel like they are constantly covered in breast milk? Every time I nurse, there seems to be milk leaking during the latch on/reposition process, pulling off, and putting him on my shoulder to burp when finished. It makes me feel very overwhelmed about eventually nursing in public.
I was just thinking about this today! I feel like my kid constantly needs a bath from being covered in milk. All of the above, plus my letdown in the breast I'm not nursing on is crazy so I have to stuff a burp cloth in my bra or the breast pads leak. He always latches for about a minute and then un-latches to catch his breath for a second, which ends up making me spray anything within two feet. Ugh! I'm enjoying breastfeeding overall and it's going well, but this whole covered in milk thing is really frustrating!
The pediatrician's office suggested we give her 1 oz of formula to supplement and make her poop and now it's one day later and she won't poop and she now won't nurse off the boob. I'm calling a LC tomorrow but I'm upset. I could get her to latch and feed until 6 hours ago (her last two feeds). Ugh. Tears have been flowing!
This is weird advice only in that breastmilk is a natural laxative and formula can be constipating (which is why breastfed babies usually poop more than their formula fed counterparts).
I can understand you being upset, but try not to be - if she latched fine until 6 hours ago, she will again. It's not like she completely forgot. Just keep offering. In all honesty, in the thirty-something years I have been alive I have never heard of a baby starving themselves to death. They have a biological instinct to survive, and she will eat. I promise you didn't break your baby with formula.
On a lighter note - budders, if it makes you feel better, everything in our house was covered with breastmilk when I was nursing LBB, and we're working up to it now. Whenever I feed off one breast, the other just starts fauceting. We just got back from dinner where I nursed at the table from my left breast, and my right leaked so much it filled my pad and went through to my shirt. Two giant spots, because of course it doesn't just leak from the tip. Just throw a loose cardi or tunic in your diaper bag to throw on after in case. But things do regulate once your supply is established and it will be less of a concern.
Does anyone else feel like they are constantly covered in breast milk? Every time I nurse, there seems to be milk leaking during the latch on/reposition process, pulling off, and putting him on my shoulder to burp when finished. It makes me feel very overwhelmed about eventually nursing in public.
It will get better. DS1 had a terrible latch (was on and off constantly) and every time he would unlatch, my milk would spray upwards of 3 feet across the room. I'm not even kidding. I sprayed all over a family friend's fancy couch and oriental rug, it was so embarrassing. All I can tell you is just keep practicing, your milk will calm down and you will get more control as you get more used to it.
Hi guys. Hoping for some tips (and maybe @amyg can help.) We were put on formula supplement at the hospital. Now giving like 1.5 oz per feed. She is sleeping so much it's hard to wake her to feed. She cries the entire time she is at the breast and is always pulling off, so I feel she isn't getting anything from me. I'm not getting anything from the pump either. Today (Monday) was the far estimate they gave me for my milk coming in. Did I totally screw this up by agreeing to supplement? She has a great suck and latch seems/feels good. I feel like I am in limbo and going to end up having to feed formula. I just want her to be ok.
Hi guys. Hoping for some tips (and maybe @amyg can help.) We were put on formula supplement at the hospital. Now giving like 1.5 oz per feed. She is sleeping so much it's hard to wake her to feed. She cries the entire time she is at the breast and is always pulling off, so I feel she isn't getting anything from me. I'm not getting anything from the pump either. Today (Monday) was the far estimate they gave me for my milk coming in. Did I totally screw this up by agreeing to supplement? She has a great suck and latch seems/feels good. I feel like I am in limbo and going to end up having to feed formula. I just want her to be ok.
I am going though the exact same thing, although technically I guess I am only on day 4. Pediatrician at the hospital put us on supplements, cause she was losing too much weight.. and then as we left (yesterday) said that we should continue to do so at every other feed. Well, I can't seem to get her to even latch right now (she can do it, she did at the hospital, but she just turns away and cries now) and pumping is not getting anywhere near enough to satisfy her. So I am giving her what I can pump and supplementing every feed for lack of anything else to do. I can't stand to think she's hungry.
I'm so stressed out about it and afraid we won't be able to breastfeed long term. I feel like there must be something I should be doing (or should have done) differently. Already had to cry about it this morning, and am tearing up as I type. I keep telling myself that it is early still and thing will work out.
Post by mrsmonogrammed on Jun 22, 2015 11:11:50 GMT -5
bookninja reading your post made ME want to tear up! Breastfeeding is such a total mindf*ck...I can go from content with how things are going to "omg she's starving and I'll never be able to keep this up for a year!" In a matter of hours. Just know that's you're doing all you can and that giving her even a tiny bit of breast milk is great! You can do it:)
For those whose doctors told to you supplement for too much weight loss get yourself to an ibclc lactation consultant ASAP. They can help you with ways to supplement that don't encourage baby to refuse the breast including using a supple tak Kursk fbsystem to give the supplement while they latch on and nurse.
You also should rent a hospital grade pump if possible and pump to try to collect any amount of supplement you can and use your own milk first.
What happens sometimes is that the amount of supplement is so large that baby has no interest j. Nursing cause they are full. And the bottle is easier to eat from so they prefer the bottle quickly.
A newborns stomach is very small about an oz by a week about 2 oz by about two weeks and about 2.5-3 oz by about 3 weeks give or take a bit.
If you aren't pumping every time nay gets supplent to signal your body that you need more milk your supply will suffer. It's fixable so get on that pumping schedule soon. But since baby is more effective at getting milk than a pump get help in person with getting baby to the breast as often as you possibly can. Every two hours for one day then staying at 2-3 hours during the day and 3-4 during night.
Also keep in mind that losing too much weight send to be a catch all phrase and you need to know what is normal so you can kind of evaluate that for yourself. Some docs are used to formula fed babies that don't lose any weight rather than bfed babies that lose up to 10% of weight normally. A complicated birth with a lot of it fluids will contribute to excess weight loss in baby as well as if you were severely swollen at birth. This excess weight is just water that baby is peeling out which gives an appearance of excess weight loss. Of course there are other factors as jaundice can keep them from waking and eating well and premies may expend too many calories with a weak suck.
Once you know where you stand for amt of weight loss then you focus on what is normal weight gain and how to get to that number. Again some docs seem to think baby should regain birthweight at an alarming speed. But if all they lost was excess water weight stuffing them full to her high weight gain isn't the answer. You want them to gain 1/2-1 oz a day. That's normal healthy weight gain. 4-7 oz a week. So to put it in perspective that means if they lost 5 oz it may take 5-10 days to regain birthweight.
Let me get on my computer in a bit and I can type out suggestions for supplementing in a breastfeeding friendly way.
It's normal for it to take 3-5 days for your milk to come in. As it starts to come in you need the frequent emptying to signal a good supply. So of baby is not nursing effectively you want or be protective of that supply with frequent pumping with a hospital rental pump of possible. Get help with your pumping style size of horns etc to maximize milk removal too. But don't set suction too high or it may temporarily collapse milk ducts so no milk can come out.
Post by turtletyme on Jun 22, 2015 12:06:08 GMT -5
Thanks @amyg. I have an appointment for Thursday with the LC. I just got new horns for my pump and will use til then and see if a pump rental is appropriate. I had a TON of fluid and swelling at birth, as you mentioned, and wonder if my baby's large abdominal measurement (in the 90s%) is part of why they were freaking out about her not eating enough. Will continue with offering at every feed, pumping and see what ped says today.
We're also in the supplement camp now, officially. I have a call in to the LC for an appointment and I'm offering at every feed - she's been refusing to latch and suck though, so we've been feeding formula mostly. I did get over 2 ounces pumped yesterday so she had that the last two feeds. I got a half ounce out of my left side this morning (my right side is so scant still) so I'm hopeful she'll get some more. The pedi thinks when she bulks up a bit she'll be more interested in feeding again.
She did mention that device @amyg mentioned so I plan on bringing it up to the LC.
To encourage baby to latch on and suck, spend a Lot of time skin to skin.. This increases your prolactin hormone level to help your supply and increases babys instinct to scootch over and try to latch on.
Give SMALL amt of supplement very often, esp at 1 week old I would be hesitant to give more than about 1-1.5 oz every 2 hours, or less every hour even. At a week old they would probably be eating almost hourly to boost your supply. There is a one week growths spurt too.
Try pumping before trying to latch, get the milk flowing and right there so baby latches on and gets milk. put a drop of milk on the tip of the mipple so they smell and taste it right away to encourage latching. You can also use an eyedropper or syringe in corner of their mouth so they latch on even if poorly they get some milk which encourages them to try harder. Make sure you are squishing the boob a bit flat like a sandwich and when you stuff it in their mouth when they open up that the nipple sort of touches roof of mouth and then aims toward back of throat. this encourages them to latch on and suck rather than to just hang out there with a nipple in their mouth.
When giving bottle use the slowest flow bottle nipple, premie size even. Make them work to get their milk with the bottle like they would have to at the breast. No milk should come out if you hold bottle upside down and if you squeeze it shouldn't be a really hard fast flow with barely touching. Pause every 1/2 oz to burp for several minutes and switch sides you hold them on to mimic breastfeeding. sit them more upright and tilt the bottle downward so gravity doesn't speed the flow.
Alternatively you can use a cup, medicine spoon, eyedropper, syringe, or finger feeder to give supplement, esp if you are doing small amounts frequently. Then let them hang out at the breast. Babies have an instinct to suck for survival so allow the breast as the only way to suck even if they suck poorly, rather than giving a bottle nipple to suck on or a pacifier. This takes away the possibility of bottle nipple preference (called nipple confusion by many)
A supplemental nursing system is basically a bottle that hangs around your neck with small tubing that comes out and tapes along the edge of your breast, areola and nipple. This allows baby to get any supplement they need at the breast, while stimulating your body to make more milk at the same time. We used to make sns homemade, but you can buy several types. They are hard to work with if baby is flailing about and pulls the tubing off, or baby tries to latch onto just the tubing. However they can work very very well to get baby at the breast nursing and up your supply.
As I said be careful with supplementing amounts. A newborn would regularly be nursing at least 12 times a day esp during growth spurt at a week old. This would be true even if they are getting plenty of milk. It's like they are insatiable but they are actually working to keep your breasts as empty as possible, which signals your body to make more milk.
It's easy to give too much supplement and then they sleep a bit longer. sounds good til you do the math and realize they only ate 8-10 times today. You want them to nurse all.the.time. They need that to also build up their muscles. When born they have fairly weak muscles of jaw, mouth and tongue, the constant work outs build those musles which makes future nursing easier. Slacking off on workouts means the muscles take longer to grow, and with weak muscles they may quickly prefer the bottle.
A weighted feeding at the LC office or pediatrician's office can tell you exactly how much milk baby takes in at the breast. This means you can adjust supplement amount to be just enough, but not too much at a time. There is an infographic that shows the size of baby's tummy, if someone finds it and posts it that might be reassuring. When born it's the size of a marble--or a cherry. Then it stretches up to the size of a shooter marble, then a golf ball. It should really stay about the size of their fist after that.
um
ok so you do a weighted feeding, find out how much baby is getting at the breast. top them off with supplemental amt, using a breastfeeding friendly bottle with slow flow or other method, with a small amt of supplement. At first that may be formula, but you need to pump to start collecting breastmilk to get to supplementing with your own milk. Then you work to back off on supplement once you are pumping enough and getting baby to just stay at the breast themselves to get the milk so you don't have to pump and bottle feed.
So for a while it's nurse or try to, supplement, pump. This is where a sns would be great so they get the nurse and supplement done at same time, and/or a hands free pumping bra so you can give supplement while pumping.
I can give pumping hints if you want those too? Basics are pump for 15-20 minutes on a reasonable uncomfortable setting but not too high, and ideally pump for 5-10 or so minutes longer to try to signal another let down and tell your body you need more milk. Make sure horns are right size, play with settings of pump to find the sweet spot suction level for you to let down and then lower it once milk starts flowing.
This is fixable and it is doable and it should only last a short time. You should not be having to do the three part feeding merry go round for very long or you need evaluation or second opinion to get things fixed.
Thanks @amyg. I have an appointment for Thursday with the LC. I just got new horns for my pump and will use til then and see if a pump rental is appropriate. I had a TON of fluid and swelling at birth, as you mentioned, and wonder if my baby's large abdominal measurement (in the 90s%) is part of why they were freaking out about her not eating enough. Will continue with offering at every feed, pumping and see what ped says today.
Eh babies have distended stomachs cause they don't have much abdominal muscles. Of course they could be full of amniotic fluid still, be high weight or need to poop. lol. or they ate more than you think they did. When they eat you can see their tummy go up in size and then they poop and it goes back down again.
Thursday is a LONG TIME away, can you get in to see them any sooner?
How much weight did baby lose? Did you do the math yourself to see what % it is?
Hi guys. Hoping for some tips (and maybe @amyg can help.) We were put on formula supplement at the hospital. Now giving like 1.5 oz per feed. She is sleeping so much it's hard to wake her to feed. She cries the entire time she is at the breast and is always pulling off, so I feel she isn't getting anything from me. I'm not getting anything from the pump either. Today (Monday) was the far estimate they gave me for my milk coming in. Did I totally screw this up by agreeing to supplement? She has a great suck and latch seems/feels good. I feel like I am in limbo and going to end up having to feed formula. I just want her to be ok.
I am going though the exact same thing, although technically I guess I am only on day 4. Pediatrician at the hospital put us on supplements, cause she was losing too much weight.. and then as we left (yesterday) said that we should continue to do so at every other feed. Well, I can't seem to get her to even latch right now (she can do it, she did at the hospital, but she just turns away and cries now) and pumping is not getting anywhere near enough to satisfy her. So I am giving her what I can pump and supplementing every feed for lack of anything else to do. I can't stand to think she's hungry.
I'm so stressed out about it and afraid we won't be able to breastfeed long term. I feel like there must be something I should be doing (or should have done) differently. Already had to cry about it this morning, and am tearing up as I type. I keep telling myself that it is early still and thing will work out.
You say you can't pump enough to satisfy her?
How much are you able to pump?
At 4 days old her tummy should still be very very small. like an oz or less.
Hi guys. Hoping for some tips (and maybe @amyg can help.) We were put on formula supplement at the hospital. Now giving like 1.5 oz per feed. She is sleeping so much it's hard to wake her to feed. She cries the entire time she is at the breast and is always pulling off, so I feel she isn't getting anything from me. I'm not getting anything from the pump either. Today (Monday) was the far estimate they gave me for my milk coming in. Did I totally screw this up by agreeing to supplement? She has a great suck and latch seems/feels good. I feel like I am in limbo and going to end up having to feed formula. I just want her to be ok.
Don't make any long term decisions or worry about those kinds of things yet. You are still in the game, you just were thrown a curveball.
She is crying at the breast cause she has to work to get milk and that's hard work. Back off on amt in bottle just a teeny bit and count diapers as you do so. Use breast compressions and massage while she does nurse so milk will flow faster and she'll get more and stay at the breast longer.
Weighted feeding with LC should be so reassuring to you if she has good latch that's a good sign.
I could never ever ever pump, more than enough to cover the bottom of the bottle. I didn't ever figure out how to let down for the pump. But I could nurse just fine.
If you are giving any amt of supplement, try pumping, but also Try hand expressing there are videos and see if you have any different results. It is hard as heck to pump colostrum or even early milk, or you could have wrong size flanges, or wrong setting speed on the pump (too high will collapse milk ducts and no milk will come out). Demand help in person and get this figured out. You are worth it!
I am going though the exact same thing, although technically I guess I am only on day 4. Pediatrician at the hospital put us on supplements, cause she was losing too much weight.. and then as we left (yesterday) said that we should continue to do so at every other feed. Well, I can't seem to get her to even latch right now (she can do it, she did at the hospital, but she just turns away and cries now) and pumping is not getting anywhere near enough to satisfy her. So I am giving her what I can pump and supplementing every feed for lack of anything else to do. I can't stand to think she's hungry.
I'm so stressed out about it and afraid we won't be able to breastfeed long term. I feel like there must be something I should be doing (or should have done) differently. Already had to cry about it this morning, and am tearing up as I type. I keep telling myself that it is early still and thing will work out.
You say you can't pump enough to satisfy her?
How much are you able to pump?
At 4 days old her tummy should still be very very small. like an oz or less.
Last pump, I maybe got 5-10 mls? I don't even think it was a quarter oz. and yesterday, even with the hospital pump, it was drops only. Every day is better, though, so I'm hopeful that once my milk is more easily available, we can get off of the supplements altogether.
Post by mrsmonogrammed on Jun 22, 2015 14:29:46 GMT -5
@amyg what if I can not get my baby to want to nurse that often?! She's a week old today and nursed only about 4 times today...3 shorter 20 minute sessions, and one 45 minute one. I try all the tricks to keep her awake but she just keeps falling asleep:(
@amyg what if I can not get my baby to want to nurse that often?! She's a week old today and nursed only about 4 times today...3 shorter 20 minute sessions, and one 45 minute one. I try all the tricks to keep her awake but she just keeps falling asleep:(
4 is no where near often enough. Length of feeds is not bad, but need to nag her to eat more often, every 2 hours maybe 3 with a 3-4 hour break once a day, hopefully at night.
Strip her down, tickle toes, cold washcloth on toes and back of neck, rub the bridge of her nose, sit her up at the waist, change diaper, switch sides. use breast compressions and massage. keep her at the breast to increase her instinct to nurse. unswaddle her and put her down in the crib on her back or on the changing table or hand her to dad. If they rouse from deep sleep and you don't catch early hunger cues of smacking lips, grunting, licking lips etc, they may go back into a deep sleep and not eat often enough. Are you dealing with any jaundice issues? That will make them super extra sleepy.
Hand express or pump just a bit, like half oz and give in a syringe or eyedropper to help wake her up, they get in a cycle of sleeping that they kind of lose the hunger feeling, like if you go too long without eating you quit feeling hunger. some newborns also seem to think they are still hooked to the umbilical cord and can sleep and get food thru their belly button still.
You want to aim for 8-10 a day as your minimum number of feeds. Now you may find that when nighttime hits, baby wakes up and acts starved to death and does the bulk of their feedings then. That's normal that they have days and nights mixed up.
count diapers, you need to see at 1 week old a minimum of 6-8 diaper changes a day, but you may see 10-12 or more if nursing is going well and they are just getting a lot of milk in a short amt of time.
At 4 days old her tummy should still be very very small. like an oz or less.
Last pump, I maybe got 5-10 mls? I don't even think it was a quarter oz. and yesterday, even with the hospital pump, it was drops only. Every day is better, though, so I'm hopeful that once my milk is more easily available, we can get off of the supplements altogether.
Yeah pumping that early milk or colostrum is very very difficult. Many moms can't pump it at all. So try video of hand expressing and give any amt you get in a spoon or eyedropper. Keep trying to get her to nurse often and use breast compressions and massage if she does latch and nurse so she gets more milk. Be sure the amt of supplement you give is small, cause the amt of milk you would normally make should also be small. If you give large supplement it stretches out their tummy so they are even less satisfied at the breast, so better to give lots of little supplements of 1 oz than more at a time.
So it just occurred to me that my deodorant contains peppermint essential oil. It's the last ingredient and my supply has been fine so far, but is there a risk of it decreasing if I continue to use it?
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