I feel like if you're going through IVF for fertility reasons, I don't have an issue with you choosing the sex. I would probably not feel comfortable with someone going through the process just to choose sex. I'm not sure why I make a big distinction there in my mind.
+1 for me on this. And I give zero fucks about Kimye or what they spend their money on.
I feel like if you're going through IVF for fertility reasons, I don't have an issue with you choosing the sex. I would probably not feel comfortable with someone going through the process just to choose sex. I'm not sure why I make a big distinction there in my mind.
+1 for me on this. And I give zero fucks about Kimye or what they spend their money on.
Post by jumpingpuddles on Jun 24, 2015 17:45:02 GMT -5
I feel broken that I don't really care either way. It seems totally weird to me why a couple would choose IVF for the sole purpose of sex selection, but whatever. If it were to impact the wait times or cost for IVF for those who actually need it, then I would care. It seems that Kimye had fertility issues, so if they were given the choice of male vs female embryos, I don't think this is a big deal at all. I do in general give a side-eye to letting the sex of your babies be too big of a thing to you, but I think it's perfectly normal to have a slight preference.
“Kanye and Kim are so excited to complete their family,” says another source of the parents of daughter North, 2. “Kanye loves Nori more than anything, but to make his world complete, he wanted a little boy, an heir,” says a source close to West.
This statement makes me ragey. God forbid they have another girl.
So what's worse? Selecting the children you want through adoption like Angelina Jolie or letting a test tube decide?
How is the fact that Angelina Jolie adopted some of her kids "worse" than anything?
I don't have cable so I don't watch them on tv and I don't care to read articles about them either. So the fact that it is them makes no difference. I think choosing sex to prevent genetic diseases that occur in one or the other (i.e. muscular dystrophy) is a logical reason to do it. Other than that, how is it any different than choosing eye, hair color or height?
If it was available to everyone I think there would be enough people wanting girls, and vice versa, that it wouldn't swing the population one way or the other, with the exception of places that value one sex over the other.
Me: 27 DH: 35 MFI, failed vas-reversal TTC since 2011 Met RE 7/2012 6 failed IUIs 9/2014 IUI BFP, MMC @12 weeks, natural mc @ home 11/18/2014 01/2015 IUI, BFP, CP 2/2015 IUI, BFP, due 11/14/15 delivered 9/8/15 via emergency CS for severe preeclampsia. Currently in the NICU.
Post by anonymouseliza on Jun 25, 2015 7:24:41 GMT -5
I think part of my attitude comes from believing there to be a difference in embryo selection, other aspects being equal, and the steps taken more generally in places like China and India, which is abortion for no medical reason (just sex of fetus), infanticide and child abandonment. It isn't that those things do not happen here, it's that they happen on a far smaller scale because our society has greater gender equality.
But I feel like there are multiple issues being discussed that may be conflated and my feelings change depending on issue.
Kim K and Kanye: do not care.
IVF w/PGS and the option for embryo selection: do not care.
IVF w/PGS without medical necessity for the sole purpose of creating and transferring one sex to produce offspring of only one sex: ethical issue to be explored, but happening on such a small, privileged scale world-wide I think this is largely an academic discussion at this time, but one which should be had.
Sex preference and disappointment: worth discussing. Normal, ok, within limits.
Sex selection in other countries: dangerous and producing imbalance which could cause real societal disruption, but not something I see as the same issue here (perhaps naively, nit sure).
Gattica style choosing of traits in our children: yes, worth ethical discussion, but separate from what is actually happening with PGS at this point. Sex selection in PGS embryos is much more similar to NIPT - you get the result, but it is secondary to what they are testing for. We are not generally at the designer baby point with PGS, so I think it is unfair to conflate them, though the general ethical questions are not unreasonable.
Post by flippinchica on Jun 25, 2015 8:01:04 GMT -5
I do agree that I don't like the "heir" language in the article but we do need to remember (as PP pointed out) that it was said by "a source" so who knows how accurate it is. Personally I am 38 and pregnant with baby #1 which happens to be a boy. We would like a 2nd child and IF we were to need IVF to get there I would want to to PGS if it were financially feasible) to decrease our chances of another loss (since as an AMA woman I know that I have increased risk of chromosomal issues). Now if that were the case and they told me I had X amount of healthy embryos and I had enough that I could choose to transfer male or female embryos I would at least be tempted to transfer all female embryos so that I could have a girl as well. I realize that is a lot of ifs and there is certainly a lot of privilege involved in being able to make those hypothetical decisions, but since I can see myself considering those choices I can't get upset at them making them.
I do realize it is a weird dichotomy but I also would be bothered by someone doing IVF with PGD only for sex selection.
Are we going to discuss what happened to the female embryos?
.....
The bolded is what I have a problem with.
Edited quote to isolate comment. I haven't read further replies below yet.
I would assume they had the same options as anyone with leftover embryos after fertility treatments. Freeze, place for embryo adoption, compassionate transfer during a non-fertile time, donate to science, or destroy.
I would guess that they froze them for now. They may want them later if they're going to do more treatments. Plus it's not like they don't have the money to keep them on ice forever.
We also don't know that there were any female embryos. There's a lot of assumption and guesswork in the whole conversation.
Edited quote to isolate comment. I haven't read further replies below yet.
I would assume they had the same options as anyone with leftover embryos after fertility treatments. Freeze, place for embryo adoption, compassionate transfer during a non-fertile time, donate to science, or destroy.
I would guess that they froze them for now. They may want them later if they're going to do more treatments. Plus it's not like they don't have the money to keep them on ice forever.
We also don't know that there were any female embryos. There's a lot of assumption and guesswork in the whole conversation.
Thank you for this. I was not familiar with the typical process during IVF. Given other posters noting she was doing IVF for IF reasons... I'm not feeling a problem with their choice.
If all this was done SOLELY to choose the sex... that would be different story.
Guys. Kim said like literally with her own mouth and vocal chords that they didn't use gender selection. Just watched her say it on the TV machine.
Just goes to show you can't believe everything the internet tells you.
Of course you can't just believe the internet (or a tabloid) but I'm not sure I'd just believe KK either, lol.
Why wouldn't you believe what a person says directly about a subject? I get that people don't like them but she's a person too. I wouldn't just call someone a liar because I don't like them. Plus what reason does she have to lie?
Maybe they only had male embryos and they're just excited/happy about it because they wanted a boy. That would be telling the truth on her part that they didn't select the sex, perhaps they didn't have the choice.
Why wouldn't you believe what a person says directly about a subject? I get that people don't like them but she's a person too. I wouldn't just call someone a liar because I don't like them. Plus what reason does she have to lie?
This is where I am with it. All kidding aside (and ignore my SN and avatar for a minute), I'm not the biggest fan of the Kardasians or Kanye but I fail to see what they would benefit from outwardly lying about this. They have been fairly transparent about the things in their lives good or bad. I would take Her word over US Weekly's "source".
And also, like, we don't actually know them. We *think* we do because we see what they want their public persona to be on the TV...but they are also humans just like us.
This is where I am with it. All kidding aside (and ignore my SN and avatar for a minute), I'm not the biggest fan of the Kardasians or Kanye but I fail to see what they would benefit from outwardly lying about this. They have been fairly transparent about the things in their lives good or bad. I would take Her word over US Weekly's "source".
And also, like, we don't actually know them. We *think* we do because we see what they want their public persona to be on the TV...but they are also humans just like us.
A whole thread about Kanye and his family, I don't know if I can contain my excitement!
I agree with what frankenboom said. I believe they were having legit IF problems and if they chose to go this route, then it's their choice, just as it is anyone's. I found the part about Kanye wanting an heir hilarious. He is notoriously egotistic and believes that he is the second coming. If he thinks his son will be an heir (to what I don't know...) then let him think that.
Whether or not I would personally do it is another discussion. I don't prefer (is that the right word??) one sex to another in terms of my children and would be happy or blessed with whatever sex I had. If I had 3 boys and wanted a 4th child I may be more inclined to wanting a girl, but I think that is natural.
ETA - I would NOT (ahhh I left that out. Edited to fix it!!) do sex selection if I had 3 boys and wanted a girl, I'm just saying I would probably be leaning towards wanting a girl more than a boy at that point. Wanted to clarify that.
Let me just say again how happy I am we are discussing Kimye. And LOL at him wanting an heir. They'll probably name him Yeezus...
Or name him Heir, and he'll even match his cousin Reign.
I'm very "meh" about this. I mean, it's their time and money. I can understand wanting to have a baby the opposite sex of your first. I mean, I'm sure the extra expense is a drop in the bucket for them. It's hard for me to judge because I'm sure is do some weird shit if I was that filthy rich. I mean, I would ever go through the IVF process just to choose the sex but if I had to do it anyway and I was filthy rich then....meh? Maybe?
Post by ProfessorChaos on Jul 5, 2015 16:16:05 GMT -5
I just wanted to chime in as someone who kinda did this for #1 and will probably for #2, if that happens. After years of fertility treatments, our third round of IVF included genetic testing. With the fresh transfer, they told me that I could choose whether to transfer a male or a female embryo. My older brother terrorized me as a child, so I always thought having a girl be eldest would be best. I said, what the hell, transfer a female. As it happened, that one didn't take. For the FET, they transferred one of each (we didn't discuss sexes in advance), and the female stuck. If we go back for a second, we'll almost certainly request a male, just for the sake of fun variety.
This seems to me the rare upside of having to go through sheer hell to get pregnant. You'll notice that they didn't do this for number one, so they're not totally crazy for boys. Kanye's "heir" comment is stupid, but, hey, what do you expect from him?
Going through infertility changes you in a lot of ways you don't expect.
Also, the "implanted" word bothers me more than anything else in this article. Nobody can "implant" embryos. They just transfer them into your uterus and cross their fingers.
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