Mainstreaming and Social Opportunities

[mamaturtle]

I am kind of stuck about what DH and I are doing to help DS be his best self despite diagnosis.

DS is in 2nd grade and has opportunities at school to mainstream parts of his day such as art, P.E., etc. but I doubt there is much socializing going on during these activities because there is instruction going on.

So, to supplement DS's socialization, DS goes to daycare after school and some full days when school is out. After school, DS is there at least an 1 1/2 hrs. except Wednesdays he is there 3 hrs. after school. The daycare teacher is there to care for the kids there and most of the kids are left to socialize and play with each other and the kids are all different ages.

We also have DS in Cub Scouts and they just started their first meeting a few weeks ago and each meeting lasts an hour. Since we started scouts last year, I have had to intervene a lot of the time to get DS to participate in the meetings depending on what the activity is. There is some instruction on belt loop requirements and sometimes the boys are allowed to play and socialized.

We are in the process of adding ABA therapy to an already busy schedule. We plan to decline the social group here because we are sure the social group will consist of kids with the same or similar diagnosis getting together. DS would not learn much socialization.

It has been brought to my attention as a suggestion to add catechism classes for DS. There is a mainstream class and a class for those children with special needs for free and class is only an hour. When I asked how trained the teachers were, they said I can sit in the classes with DS and put him in the 1st grade class. DS is in 2nd grade!

I just don't know which program would give DS the best socialization with what we are already doing. Is it enough?

[mirandah]

What is in his IEP regarding socialization? DS is in third grade and we requested that social skills be pushed in the classroom to avoid the stigma of a pullout. Otherwise they suggested taking a typical kid out with DS for social skills. DS knows all the other ASD kids well enough that I don't think he'd learn anything meaningful. With push in social skills his caseworker will hang out on the back and interject as needed.

[mirandah]

DS's school (and it sounds like a common thing) also has a lunch bunch socializing opportunity where once a week the ASD kids eat together in a small group with NT kids. I think he is basically too old for this now.

[Deleted]

I would do art and PE if you want those subjects plus socialization. They will have project time and some socialization but it probably would be on the lesser scale following instruction. Like for example, if he needs to work on motor skills PE could be good.

I don't know if I would put him in 1st grade Catchism because he would probably be wondering why he is in 1st grade class. I had this with DS's gymnastics class. He is the oldest in the class at almost 6, but his motor skills are behind. The class is for 3,4,5 year olds, but I think there might be only 1 other 5 year old who maybe just turned 5. I could explain it that it is for 3,4,5 year olds. But I don't know that you can explain the 1st grade catechism class.

[mrsbuttinski]

Sept 8, 2016 10:46:18 GMT -5 mamaturtle said:

DS is in 2nd grade and has opportunities at school to mainstream parts of his day such as art, P.E., etc. but I doubt there is much socializing going on during these activities because there is instruction going on.

Exactly. Mainstreaming into specials is sometimes more of a feel good strategy than something that  actually benefits the student. It brings down the percentage of time a child spends in a self contained setting to make the numbers around LRE look better. For some bright kids on spectrum, mainstreaming into math, RELA or science where they can work in small groups is better for the social piece. 

So, to supplement DS's socialization, DS goes to daycare after school and some full days when school is out. After school, DS is there at least an 1 1/2 hrs. except Wednesdays he is there 3 hrs. after school. The daycare teacher is there to care for the kids there and most of the kids are left to socialize and play with each other and the kids are all different ages.

How impaired and atypical is your DS around social behavior and understanding. For a lot of kids on spectrum, mere exposure to typically developing peers is kind of pointless without rote social skills instruction and support while they globalize new skills. I mean, if they could learn the social pieces from observing and interacting with typical peers, they wouldn't have an ASD dx.

Has anyone from his team observed him in this setting? Is he interacting appropriately? Or is he unsuccessful in joining boys his age? Or is he happy to be left alone at the end of a long academic day? 

We also have DS in Cub Scouts and they just started their first meeting a few weeks ago and each meeting lasts an hour. Since we started scouts last year, I have had to intervene a lot of the time to get DS to participate in the meetings depending on what the activity is. There is some instruction on belt loop requirements and sometimes the boys are allowed to play and socialized.


Because of the family involvement and semi-structured nature of cub scouts, this can be a great place to practice social skills learned in a more therapeutic setting. It's a place where mom or dad can scaffold and prompt social thinking early on without it being stigmatizing. 

We are in the process of adding ABA therapy to an already busy schedule. We plan to decline the social group here because we are sure the social group will consist of kids with the same or similar diagnosis getting together. DS would not learn much socialization.


It's hard to say because I don't know your kid, but I might re-think this. Given that he's 7, given that he has a dual ASD/ADHD dx. And given that he has been referred for ABA, he might be better served in a setting where he gets rote instruction around the fundamental rules of social behavior and thinking designed for kids with his specific deficits in that area for now.


DS did MGW in a small group with a couple of other boys who have Aspergers/ADHD. They learned Social Thinking together and practiced in a small group setting 1-2 times a week- this was a pretty high functioning and less atypical group- all of these boys are in college or have graduated now. All but DS were fully mainstreamed even in 2nd grade except DS who did resource for LD issues, not ASD. A couple of these kids remained friends with DS through high school when they were in band together. 


I think it can be hard to appreciate the enormity of the emotional delay and the social cluelessness some kids have because their academic piece tends to mask it. This is where a curriculum like "Social Thinking" can really drill down the gaps and fill them with the sort of thinking skills typical kids pick up through osmosis. I get that you probably think he'd be better served by exposure to typical kids, but until he learns how they think as a group and individually, he won't be able to make use of them. Mere exposure to typical kids is throwing him in the deep end without swimming lessons. 

But it depends. Sometimes ABA social skills groups are more training than teaching. Sometimes that's an appropriate first step and the thinking piece can be added once the behaviors are under control. I'd want to know who is in the group, what curriculum is taught and by whom. 


It has been brought to my attention as a suggestion to add catechism classes for DS. There is a mainstream class and a class for those children with special needs for free and class is only an hour. When I asked how trained the teachers were, they said I can sit in the classes with DS and put him in the 1st grade class. DS is in 2nd grade!


Not sure I would do this unless I wanted my son to prepare for the sacrament of communion or confirmation. IME, these tend to be real no-nonsense classes with very little socializing. It's very unlikely the teachers would have much experience even as teachers. They tend to draft whatever mom they can rope into the classroom. You might luck out and get a retired teacher who is a SAHM. 

I wouldn't necessarily get indignant about the suggestion of the 1st grade class unless he completed it previously. This isn't public school where he's entitled to LRE- it's religious education where you start at the beginning. I wonder if you could find an older scout- boy or girl- who could work on their Disability Awareness Badge in the CCD class.


I just don't know which program would give DS the best socialization with what we are already doing. Is it enough?


My advice? Front load the social piece. Throw as much at him as you can and then take him out into the real world to practice and globalize them. 

[anintrovert]

Specials (PE, art, music) is one of the hardest parts of the day for my DS. They do different things every day with mildly different expectations. They're less structured. The teachers are mostly great but they have 400 students. It's hard for them to remember every kids Behavior Plan, IEP accommodations, and quirks. I'd still try it but at least for my kid it's not the most beneficial.

I agree with Mrs.B. The structure in the classroom during academics is more beneficial. When he has a good teacher it's structured and predictable, teaches cooperation in small groups, and teaches real life skills like listening and paying attention to the teacher. The last two are hugely valuable social skills.

I also want to agree on social skills groups. I'm really fortunate that my DS's school runs the Social Thinking Curriculum at all levels. Sometimes he's pulled for lunch bunch. Sometime the psych pushes in at recess.

Clinic based social skills groups have been hit or miss. Not because of the other students but because of the quality of the programming and instructors.

I have the very socially motivated kid who is not always successful with boys his age. He needs to cognitively learn the skills. (Like the other day I had to explain to him that when he rolls his eyes it means he thinks what the other person is saying/doing is dumb or not important. Plus it's rude. He thought it was just being funny)

My kid is in Martial Arts. Not all of the instructors are well versed in SN (the most common teacher is 20) but the structured and physical nature of the classes allow my kid to be successful.

[Life is interesting]

That sounds heavy on scheduling. Does He have time for free play?

Personally, at his age. I would focus more on social skills rather than daycare. Front load aba and social skills class but schedule some down time too.

[mamaturtle]

I am sorry I took so long to respond.

Thank you all for input and suggestions!

mrsbuttinski ,Has anyone from his team observed him in this setting? Is he interacting appropriately? Or is he unsuccessful in joining boys his age? Or is he happy to be left alone at the end of a long academic day?

I am not sure if any of DS's IEP team has observed him at school with his interactions with peers. I have asked a few times if he played with anybody at lunch or if he walked with any other kids in "Walking Wednesday." He says he has no friends in those situations.

I do know he is unsuccessful with boys his age. An example, was this past Sunday when we were selling Cub Scout popcorn. The other two boys we sold with were excluding DS because DS didn't want to sell popcorn. Here I should have scaffold the part where one of the boys mentioned he liked legos because DS also likes legos. The parent(cub master) of one of the boys took him aside and talked to him after the kid exclaimed that DS was not selling. DS seemed to not notice that the other two boys did not associate with him. I did and felt bad about the boys excluding DS. I am almost cried.

DS does get to play with the other kids at daycare only because they have known each for a few years already. He has successful friendships there even though the kids are from 6-12 years old.

DS does get to play alone at home after dinner and on weekends.

I would like to bring up social skills at lunch like the lunch bunch that was mentioned to help DS.