New Ped thinks dairy intolerance is not real

[4PrivetDrive]

We just moved and met with our new pediatrician for DS1's 3yr well check. At the end he was asking me how BFing DS2 is going. I said it was going well, other than that he had a dairy intolerance. He asked what symptoms DS2 had that made me think he was intolerant, so I told him the slime green poops, the extreme diaper rash that bled, increased fussiness, and skin rash. He told me that it was all a bunch of coincidence and people these days try to interfere too much. He explained the green poops were from bile, the diaper rash was because if you put a diaper on a kid eventually they will get a rash, and the skin rash was normal unless it was hives. 

Our old pediatrician agreed wholeheartedly that DS2 has a dairy intolerance and not to reintroduce until 8 months. We've been dairy free since 6wks and he is almost 6 months. All his symptoms are gone since I cut out dairy. 

So I'm just checking to make sure that he is being ridiculous, because he said/did some other things I wasn't impressed with, before I request a new pediatrician. 

I miss my old pediatrician. 

[mama2a]

I don't have experience with this with my own kid, but I had a mama friend who was given similar advice about eliminating dairy. Her Pedi's advice was not to stress herself out so much with finding a source of her baby's fussiness because she might never really know, and cutting dairy out of the diet is hard to do. I think your Pedi makes a good point in that we try to intervene far too much for what is actually just normal infant behavior. Generally speaking, I have seen many questions about LO's poops posted on here and sometimes their worries are things that I thought were just normal for my own kid. One time a fellow mama friend said that she was giving her newborn GripeWater because LO was really gassy and pooping around the clock. I thought that was interesting because I never thought that my newborn's pooping around the clock and loud stomach rumblings were something to be concerned about. I remember my MIL made comments about it once and said that DD must be having digestion issues, and I thought that was not helpful advice for me as a new mama.

That's just my 2 cents--you know your kid and what you're comfortable with so do what feels right for you

[stormygrace]

I would assume that if you cut out all dairy and LO's symptoms went away, that you're probably correct in thinking that it's a dairy intolerance. As far as the new Pedi goes, I would trust your instincts. If more than one thing he said seemed off then it's probably not too far off to move on. Obviously you don't trust him. That's just my opinion. If I didn't trust my pedi I would move on.

[Deleted]

I think the bulk of the dairy intolerance diagnoses stems from a couple things going on-- most moms have oversupply whe their milk comes in and for the first 6 weeks and dairy (and soy) is in more processed foods than every before.

When you have dairy intolerance symptoms, it's often lactose overload stemming from oversupply. baby's digestive system is moving super fast from soooooo much milk and sooooo much of it being foremilk, that you get a temporary dairy intolerance--similar to when you have diarhea from a stomach bug, and if you drink milk you may get really fast moving even worse diarhea. This is because the brush barrier of the digestive tract gets damaged from --excuse my french -the shit moving thru your system at breakneck speed. Once the cause of the issue if corrected (tummy bug or oversupply) the digestive tract heals and regular processing of normal amounts of dairy are no longer an issue. This would mean that most moms once their supply regulates baby's system will heal and they can resume dairy consumption.

But since dairy and soy are in everything, it can also "just" be that there is too much of a hard to digest protein entering baby's system. The immature digestive system can't break it down well and you get gassy, fussy, funky colored stools. Many of the snacks we grab and go contain dairy or soy--a bowl of cereal, yogurts and cheese sticks of course but even lunch meats, seasonings breads, spices and on and on contain dairy or soy. In that instance it might not be an intolerance of dairy, but simply an intolerance of too much dairy. Dairy piggybacks onto the breastmilk protein and is very hard for an immature digestive system to break it down.

As oversupply regulates, baby gets more hindmilk. Hindmilk slows down digestion so the digestive tract heals. A slower digestive tract gives an immature digestive tract more time to break down the proteins. It's one of the reasons why formula can "cure" a dairy intolerance at least for a while--because formula is harder to digest, and contains a "better" balance of fats per oz, so digestive system slows way down--baby might start pooping less than once a day.

So in some ways I agree with your doctor. Used to be nobody ever came around to the breastfeeding boards saying "my doctor diagnosed my baby with mspi". We might hear my baby is gassy and fussy so my dr told me to eat a bit less dairy. Often that kind of moderation is all that is necessary to see improvement. Of course, sometimes you have to go dairy free--for a while, usually a few months is sufficient. And sometimes moms quit breastfeeding because they find the mspi diet to be too difficult.

[casey]

Feb 11, 2015 14:37:09 GMT -5 @amyg said:

So in some ways I agree with your doctor. Used to be nobody ever came around to the breastfeeding boards saying "my doctor diagnosed my baby with mspi". We might hear my baby is gassy and fussy so my dr told me to eat a bit less dairy. Often that kind of moderation is all that is necessary to see improvement. Of course, sometimes you have to go dairy free--for a while, usually a few months is sufficient. And sometimes moms quit breastfeeding because they find the mspi diet to be too difficult.

Yeah, there's so much variation.  Sure, we might  look for trouble or go to extremes sometimes.  But, this is so so real for so many.  If you are feeling brave, test it out. 

My pedi and I minimized stinky/slimy diapers and eczema b/c my LO gained well and was happy.   It wasn't until she started throwing hives and systemic reactions at 8m that we discovered her milk allergy (and egg and others).

If you don't trust your pedi, it's time to look elsewhere.

[Deleted]

Feb 11, 2015 18:50:18 GMT -5 casey said:

Feb 11, 2015 14:37:09 GMT -5 @amyg said:

So in some ways I agree with your doctor. Used to be nobody ever came around to the breastfeeding boards saying "my doctor diagnosed my baby with mspi". We might hear my baby is gassy and fussy so my dr told me to eat a bit less dairy. Often that kind of moderation is all that is necessary to see improvement. Of course, sometimes you have to go dairy free--for a while, usually a few months is sufficient. And sometimes moms quit breastfeeding because they find the mspi diet to be too difficult.

Yeah, there's so much variation.  Sure, we might  look for trouble or go to extremes sometimes.  But, this is so so real for so many.  If you are feeling brave, test it out. 

My pedi and I minimized stinky/slimy diapers and eczema b/c my LO gained well and was happy.   It wasn't until she started throwing hives and systemic reactions at 8m that we discovered her milk allergy (and egg and others).

If you don't trust your pedi, it's time to look elsewhere.

I will add that a few symptoms usually are linked to milk(or other) allergies. Eczema is one of them. Blood in stool usually is a sign of allergy as well as a red ring at the anus. 
So many of the other things, reflux/spit up, green frothy mucousy poops etc. are variable as to what they mean. 
The digestive issues tend to fall on a continuum, with some signs common among all of the possibitlities, and some signs just getting worse depending on the reason and length of time it goes on so much overlap from  oversupply, foremilk/hindmilk imbalance, lactose overload, intolerance, allergy. 
Often you aren't really sure what it is until baby is eating solids on their own or they are older and you can do full allergy testing. sometimes  babies that resist solids and just don't want them have intolerances or allergies--they know the food hurts.  others it doesn't seem to matter, maybe they are just used to food making them feel "off" or bad.  There are sooooo many things that baby could be allergic or intolerant of, so it isn't always even milk or soy's fault either.

Follow your mom's instincts. But don't let fear be your only guide here.  For anyone who is contemplating going dairy free-think about pumping and saving some frozen milk from when you were eating dairy, then later on when you think baby may have outgrown their intolerance, you can introduce a small amount of "contaminated" milk and watch for reaction rather than giving the offending food to baby or eating it yourself and having it remain in your system long term. 

[mapetitefamille]

I think I understand where your new pedi is coming from. My DD1 was gassy and spit up >20 times daily, but didn't have the symptoms of a true allergy as others have noted above. My pediatrician at the time recommended that I go on a dairy and soy free diet, which is very difficult, as you know. Neither five months of that nor reflux medications led to much improvement, but everything did resolve by the time she was around nine months old. In retrospect, and in light of the issues I've been having with DD2, it seems clear to me now that it was actually an issue of oversupply and not a dietary intolerance at all. It's frustrating to me, because it's something that I could have worked on and spared both myself and my older daughter a lot of suffering. But I didn't know any better at the time. I think that pediatricians are too quick to recommend drastic dietary changes to moms without investigating other potential causes, particularly oversupply issues. That having been said, if you see a lot of improvement on a dairy free diet, by all means I would continue it regardless of what the pedi thinks. And it should go without saying: if you don't trust them, get a different provider.

[somerandomchick]

I have heard that parents tend to over-diagnose dairy intolerance etc... in my newborn care class they were telling us about peak crying and said that, since babies naturally have a peak of crying and then get less fussy (around 6-8 weeks), parents who are desperately doing trial & error to make their fussy baby less fussy will tend to think whatever they tried around the 6-8 week mark worked, when it's just that developmentally baby is crying less. So, that's one thing to consider

But that's just an 'in general, this happens'--I don't know about your situation obviously. My understanding is that intolerances to food passed through BM do exist but are more rare than we think.

[noname]

I would go with your gut. As PPs said, it's not hurting you or your LO to cut out dairy, but it may be helping.

FWIW my pedi was pretty uninformed as well and just told me to try cutting out obvious dairy because DD could have a problem with the lactose. My allergist also acted like I was crazy. But I know that when I eliminated certain foods (mostly dairy and soy), DD's poops no longer had blood or mucus in them nor were they "explosive", and her eczema went away completely. When I accidentally ate something with dairy in it, there was an undeniable reaction. She spit up 10 times in 2 hours once (she has never been a spitter) and had one bright red, rashy cheek after I ate something with soy flour. So for me, I couldn't not avoid foods that obviously bothered DD. Whether it was MSPI or not, she was happier and healthier when I didn't eat certain things.

[jennlin]

dairy intolerance is absolutely real--whether or not you have it in your baby, you'll have to use your own gut to decide. my daughter, at almost 3yrs...i test every few months, and she still gets eczema and wakes up crying MOTN.

if you don't trust your ped, i'd get a new one.

[spacedew]

Feb 11, 2015 23:49:22 GMT -5 @amyg said:

Feb 11, 2015 18:50:18 GMT -5 casey said:

Follow your mom's instincts. But don't let fear be your only guide here.  For anyone who is contemplating going dairy free-think about pumping and saving some frozen milk from when you were eating dairy, then later on when you think baby may have outgrown their intolerance, you can introduce a small amount of "contaminated" milk and watch for reaction rather than giving the offending food to baby or eating it yourself and having it remain in your system long term. 

This is what I did. DD had blood in her stool as well as other symptoms. We still are not back on dairy yet but we are seeing an allergist and GI.  

[elbug]

Our previous ped was like that. Our new ped and our allergist strongly support my son's issues being cause by milk protein. If your baby is better off dairy then that is all that matters. Trial via baked goods first at 8 months is a good time to test.

[elbug]

One more thing, green slimy poop alone is not a tell tale sign. There are many things that can cause that. Blood plus mucous is pretty classic milk protein intolerance. Green poop also is very commonly due to oversupply.

Your baby has multiple symptoms (rash, diaper area irritation and mucousy poops) PLUS they're better off dairy so that tells me you're doing the right thing by staying off it for now.

[4PrivetDrive]

Thank you all so much! I am looking into getting a new pediatrician. I will continue to cut out dairy and the reintroduce at 8mo. He definitely is better when I am off dairy and if I accidentally eat something with dairy he definitely has a noticeable reaction. I really appreciate all the feedback!!

[Deleted]

Like others have said, I DO think it's overdiagnosed- and that's coming from a mama who cut soy for 10+ mos and dairy for 17+ mos!
AmyG made some very good points. I battled oversupply in the beginning as well, and I was willing to do anything to put an end to the green, bloody stools- and didn't want to wait. I waited on soy and they still didn't stop after my oversupply was under control, so I cut that too.
When I added dairy back when DS was four months, his stools got all yucky again and I stopped because I was afraid they'd become bloody.
DS is 3.5 now and tolerates soy just fine. Dairy is another story: things with a bit of butter or milk cooked in seem to be fine. He even tolerates small pieces of cheese. Dairy ice cream or cream cheese (cooked or otherwise) and he gets an upset tummy and is in the bathroom.
Could he have tolerated smaller amounts than I was eating when he was first born? Hard to say. I just know I'm cutting dairy a few weeks before my due date this time in case I have an oversupply again. Then I can get that under control before trying to see DD's tolerance to small amounts.
As far as your ped goes, go with your gut. If you don't like how the doc makes you feel/treats your concerns, shop around. If you like the doc overall and can agree to disagree on this one, stick with him.