Pride & Prejudice Discussion #2: Chapters 15-29

[peanutmuse]

I wanted to post this in case anyone really wanted to jump in. I have not read it all yet, so I will come back later tonight after I am caught up and post some discussion questions/topics, if need be. But if you have something you want to talk about, jump right in!

[elsiemae]

I'm starting to get into the storyline now. Although Mr. Collins is obnoxious, I like the dynamic he brings to the story.

I also enjoy that Mrs. Bennet is flipping her shit because she thought she had two of her daughters married off, but both plans fell through.

I love the plot twist with Charlotte and Mr. Collins too. Charlotte is probably my favorite character at this point. I like how sensible and practical she is.

I'm really looking forward to the rest of this book.

[seamonster]

I adore Charlotte. Mr. Collins is obnoxious, but she's clearly able to deal with it.

[joi922]

I'm still loving Mrs. Bennett. Lizzie is her least favorite because she's too much like her dad and not enough like her mom - and she was thrilled at the idea of getting her out of the house. I wonder if she would have had the same reaction had Mr. Collins asked Lydia to marry him and Lydia said no? I know her goal is to have all her daughters married, preferably the wealthiest person available, but she seems more concerned with her other daughters being happy in their matches than Lizzie.

elsiemae, I agree that Charlotte is my favorite character at the moment. She saw an opportunity to have her own home (as much as a woman could back then) and she took it. Mr. Collins is a pompous blowhard, but she knows what she's getting herself into.

I have to admit, Jane irritates me. She so easily believes a virtual stranger (Miss Bingley) over her own sister. Since she was sick, she didn't see all of Miss Bingley's attempts to flirt with Mr. Darcy, but wasn't she aware of at least some of them? Seems odd that she wouldn't think that her sister's theory (that Miss Bingley thinks she'll have an easier time marrying Mr. Darcy if her brother marries Georgiana) could even possibly be true.

[elsiemae]

Did anyone else think that Mary could have been a good match for Mr. Collins? I think they would have suited each other nicely.

[Unknown]

I have a hard time with this book. It's hard to take my modern mind and put it in 1800's rural England. I'm just annoyed at these characters overall.

I'm at least starting to like Lizzie. I appreciate she didn't accept a marriage proposal just because it was given.

ETA: Mrs. Bennet seriously needs to chill out, it isn't like her daughters are now doomed to eternal spinsterhood.

[peanutmuse]

I bypassed the comments because I am still not caught up. Toddler boy is taking short naps the past couple of days = less reading time for me. I will be caught up by tomorrow, though. I apologize!

[somethingcleverer]

Feb 13, 2015 11:19:38 GMT -5 elsiemae said:

Did anyone else think that Mary could have been a good match for Mr. Collins? I think they would have suited each other nicely.

Yes! I wonder why everyone just accepts that Mary will not find a match while there is such pressure for the rest of the girls to marry.

[setsuna17]

Feb 13, 2015 11:19:38 GMT -5 elsiemae said:

Did anyone else think that Mary could have been a good match for Mr. Collins? I think they would have suited each other nicely.

I've always thought that about Mary too! But she too finds him idiotic haha.

[kateisoptimistic]

Jumping in!

Mr. Collins is driving me crazy at this point, he is so odd and I would be so ready to kick him out if he intended to stay in my home for 2 weeks. I am so happy Lizzie turned him down even though Mrs. Bennett might die thinking her daughter is now going to be an old maid. I think it is so odd that he turns around and proposes to Charlotte instead. But I think it odder that Lizzie is upset over it. She said she didn't want him.

[Unknown]

Feb 18, 2015 10:54:44 GMT -5 kateisoptimistic said:

Jumping in!

Mr. Collins is driving me crazy at this point, he is so odd and I would be so ready to kick him out if he intended to stay in my home for 2 weeks. I am so happy Lizzie turned him down even though Mrs. Bennett might die thinking her daughter is now going to be an old maid. I think it is so odd that he turns around and proposes to Charlotte instead. But I think it odder that Lizzie is upset over it. She said she didn't want him.

Exactly!

I feel like such an odd ball, but I'm not really enjoying this book because the Characters are so annoying and full of themselves that I can't get past it.

Lizzie seems upset that Charlotte is interested in Mr. Collins money yet she doesn't seem to think Jane is interested in Mr. Bingley just for his money(?) Is there a double standard, or is she jealous. Does she not want Mr. Collins or Mr. Darcy yet she doesn't want anybody else to be with them? Lizzie confuses me a bit.

ETA: I must confess I'm struggling with the language and following the storyline, so forgive me if I miss the point .

[kateisoptimistic]

Feb 18, 2015 11:12:28 GMT -5 Unknown said:

Feb 18, 2015 10:54:44 GMT -5 kateisoptimistic said:

Jumping in!

Mr. Collins is driving me crazy at this point, he is so odd and I would be so ready to kick him out if he intended to stay in my home for 2 weeks. I am so happy Lizzie turned him down even though Mrs. Bennett might die thinking her daughter is now going to be an old maid. I think it is so odd that he turns around and proposes to Charlotte instead. But I think it odder that Lizzie is upset over it. She said she didn't want him.

Exactly!

I feel like such an odd ball, but I'm not really enjoying this book because the Characters are so annoying and full of themselves that I can't get past it.

Lizzie seems upset that Charlotte is interested in Mr. Collins money yet she doesn't seem to think Jane is interested in Mr. Bingley just for his money(?) Is there a double standard, or is she jealous. Does she not want Mr. Collins or Mr. Darcy yet she doesn't want anybody else to be with them? Lizzie confuses me a bit.

agreed - all the characters are full of themselves.  I can't help but compare this book to some of the scenes that play out in Downton Abbey for some reason (maybe because i just watched 5 episodes in a row?) and I notice they are all full of themselves.  Is it an English elite thing? 

Also I feel like Lizzie is a bit jealous that the attention is being taken away from her.  She almost wants everyone to pine after her.  I know Lizzie is supposed to be this greatly loved witty female character, but I think she is kind of annoying.

[setsuna17]

Feb 18, 2015 11:12:28 GMT -5 Unknown said:

Feb 18, 2015 10:54:44 GMT -5 kateisoptimistic said:

Jumping in!

Mr. Collins is driving me crazy at this point, he is so odd and I would be so ready to kick him out if he intended to stay in my home for 2 weeks. I am so happy Lizzie turned him down even though Mrs. Bennett might die thinking her daughter is now going to be an old maid. I think it is so odd that he turns around and proposes to Charlotte instead. But I think it odder that Lizzie is upset over it. She said she didn't want him.

Lizzie seems upset that Charlotte is interested in Mr. Collins money yet she doesn't seem to think Jane is interested in Mr. Bingley just for his money(?) Is there a double standard, or is she jealous. Does she not want Mr. Collins or Mr. Darcy yet she doesn't want anybody else to be with them? Lizzie confuses me a bit.

I think it is because of her friend and sister's natures, not desires. Jane has never ever talked about Bingley's money, whereas Charlotte is very open about the fact that she is marrying to be comfortable. Also, I don't think Lizzie is jealous at all about Mr. Collins not loving her. She thinks Mr. Collins is an irritating prick and so she is worried about her friend's happiness. It didn't seem selfish at all to me. As for Mr. Darcy, she even wanted him to be with Miss Bingley or Miss DeBourgh so I don't think she's jealous on his account either. 

[joi922]

Feb 18, 2015 17:14:45 GMT -5 setsuna17 said:

Feb 18, 2015 11:12:28 GMT -5 Unknown said:

Lizzie seems upset that Charlotte is interested in Mr. Collins money yet she doesn't seem to think Jane is interested in Mr. Bingley just for his money(?) Is there a double standard, or is she jealous. Does she not want Mr. Collins or Mr. Darcy yet she doesn't want anybody else to be with them? Lizzie confuses me a bit.

I think it is because of her friend and sister's natures, not desires. Jane has never ever talked about Bingley's money, whereas Charlotte is very open about the fact that she is marrying to be comfortable. Also, I don't think Lizzie is jealous at all about Mr. Collins not loving her. She thinks Mr. Collins is an irritating prick and so she is worried about her friend's happiness. It didn't seem selfish at all to me. As for Mr. Darcy, she even wanted him to be with Miss Bingley or Miss DeBourgh so I don't think she's jealous on his account either. 

Interesting. I read as jealousy on Lizzie's part, but not over Mr. Collins. It's pretty clear she can't stand him. But now Charlotte has moved on with her life. She and Lizzie aren't in the same place anymore, and I think Lizzie was annoyed and maybe a little jealous that her friend got there before her, and in effect left her behind. After all, Charlotte was older and I think Lizzie considered her less attractive and less clever than herself - so it seemed to me that Lizzie expected her to always be the single friend she could talk to whenever she wished because she wouldn't have any other demands on her time. Like it was Lizzie's destiny to eventually marry, but not necessarily Charlotte's.

[Deleted]

Feb 13, 2015 10:10:58 GMT -5 @enchanted said:

joi922 Jane has always annoyed me with how naive she is and thinking Lizzie is too cynical. It's such a slap in the face to her when she is in London and finds out that her sister is right and Miss Bingley was never a friend to her.

Mrs. Bennett would have absolutely flipped her lid if Mr. Collins had seriously pursued Jane, Lydia, or possibly even Kitty. There was a line in there about Mr. Collins being good enough for "her" referring to Lizzie. I seem to remember her also thinking he was a good enough match for Mary, too.

Kitty is one of my complaints with this book. She's like the token middle child (though Mary is the true middle child). She doesn't really have any character development compared with the others and is just kind of there. That's why I said "possibly" about her, because I honestly don't know how Mrs. Bennett feels about her since she never really pays any attention to her.

Yes, Mrs. Bennett knew Mary could be convinced to accept Mr. Collins. My confusion is as to why she didn't think of that right off the bat. She knew how stubborn and obstinate Lizzie was, yet figured she would accept the proposal anyway. Considering she knew that Lizzie was almost nearly as pretty as Jane, you'd think she would have held out for someone better and married off a "less appealing" daughter.

I've often wondered about Kitty. She just exists as a catalyst to Lydia and has no personality whatsoever.

[elsiemae]

Feb 19, 2015 12:54:11 GMT -5 @ordinaryamy said:

Feb 13, 2015 10:10:58 GMT -5 @enchanted said:

joi922 Jane has always annoyed me with how naive she is and thinking Lizzie is too cynical. It's such a slap in the face to her when she is in London and finds out that her sister is right and Miss Bingley was never a friend to her.

Mrs. Bennett would have absolutely flipped her lid if Mr. Collins had seriously pursued Jane, Lydia, or possibly even Kitty. There was a line in there about Mr. Collins being good enough for "her" referring to Lizzie. I seem to remember her also thinking he was a good enough match for Mary, too.

Kitty is one of my complaints with this book. She's like the token middle child (though Mary is the true middle child). She doesn't really have any character development compared with the others and is just kind of there. That's why I said "possibly" about her, because I honestly don't know how Mrs. Bennett feels about her since she never really pays any attention to her.

Yes, Mrs. Bennett knew Mary could be convinced to accept Mr. Collins. My confusion is as to why she didn't think of that right off the bat. She knew how stubborn and obstinate Lizzie was, yet figured she would accept the proposal anyway. Considering she knew that Lizzie was almost nearly as pretty as Jane, you'd think she would have held out for someone better and married off a "less appealing" daughter.

I've often wondered about Kitty. She just exists as a catalyst to Lydia and has no personality whatsoever.

I felt like the main push to marry off Lizzie was to get her out of the house. I guess I just assumed that she didn't want to deal with her, since she is obviously her least favorite.

[peanutmuse]

I have a different take on Jane than others do, it seems. I feel like she's not naive as much as she is trying to find the best in people. She does ultimately accept that Elizabeth is right. She gathers all information. She is not stubborn about her opinion of things in the way that Elizabeth can be.

I do not find Elizabeth to be a jealous person. At all. Of anyone. My only curiosity about her is that she seems to really understand everyone -- except for Wickham and (especially) Darcy. She was so quick to accept Wickham's description of Darcy (despite many warnings that it was false), yet berates others for doing the exact same thing when it comes to Darcy.

I am puzzled by those who like Charlotte. I liked Charlotte until she decided to marry Collins. I understand why she did it, but it lowered my opinion of her.

Mr. Bennet is hysterical. I look forward to his comic relief.

On a side note, I have found that listening to a dramatic reading of the book while reading it at the same time is helping with my comprehension. It is flowing much better for me than it was prior to do this.