Inclusion vs contained classroom for preschool

[djtippietoes]

DS will be 3 at the end of January and we have begun to transition from our state's Early Intervention program into the county school system. From what I'm told, they will make a recommendation for him at 3 that is one of the following: 1. he doesn't qualify for services. 2. he qualifies for someone to come into the home or daycare to assist for a period similar to what his EI therapist does now. 3. They'll recommend an inclusion classroom or 4. They'll recommend a self-contained, all special needs classroom.

From what I've gathered talking to other people, option 4, the self-contained classroom, is offered most often because there are a lot more spaces available since more schools have this than those that have inclusion.  So I'm probably getting ahead of myself, but I think this is what they'll probably recommend.

My question is: how much would a child benefit from being in a classroom with typical peers? I feel like that would be beneficial for him so he'd learn to model from his typical peers, but then I wonder if that has more to do with me not coming to terms with his abilities than him.

I guess I just don't want to put him in an all SN program if he would be able to thrive in an inclusion one. However, I think I'll have to push hard for inclusion and is it worth it or do some kids need to be in an all special needs program and how do I know? I don't feel like I can trust with that school system says. They are not exactly known for being a great school system.

DS has an ASD diagnosis. His weaknesses are attending to tasks and focus. He doesn't have meltdowns, but he does whine significantly (though this might just be his age). He is verbal but he does do some scripting and echolalic speech.

[KC thepouchh8r]

I think it really depends on your child, their strengths and needs. During preschool, my child had a mix of both environments; she started at 100% self contained and gradually worked into a mainstream class until the end where she was 50/50 in both. I felt she got more out of the self contained class personally. I think that environment with the intensive classroom support with staff highly educated in asd made her more classroom ready where she could follow the rules of the classroom, attend during circle, answer questions, etc. Of her peers who did more inclusive environments, their social skills might have grown more but they are still having a tough time attending to classwork/routines of the classroom. That being said my kid has never had a huge interest in same age peers; she likes to join in with preferred activities but is completely content to play alone. She has always been very socially interested/motivated by adults. If your child is highly motivated by peers, inclusion might bring more growth.

[mrsbuttinski]

Dec 8, 2016 20:24:28 GMT -5 djtippietoes said:

From what I've gathered talking to other people, option 4, the self-contained classroom, is offered most often because there are a lot more spaces available since more schools have this than those that have inclusion.  So I'm probably getting ahead of myself, but I think this is what they'll probably recommend.


I don't think it's a bad idea to keep your mind focused on where he'll be best served in the next five years. DS's psych always said to look at where you want him to be in 5 years and focus on the skills he'll need to thrive there. 

It might be useful to observe if you can. 

My question is: how much would a child benefit from being in a classroom with typical peers? I feel like that would be beneficial for him so he'd learn to model from his typical peers, but then I wonder if that has more to do with me not coming to terms with his abilities than him.


It depends on the kid and the program. I get the appeal of typical peers, but TBH, if he was learning social, speech and emotional skills from mere exposure to well developing kids who wouldn't have an ASD label. It takes a certain baseline level of social skills and curiosity to benefit from NTs in the classroom. The other thing I see in inclusion model classrooms in the early grades is that the NT kids often gravitate to each other for play unless there's an overlap of interests. Kids on spectrum can be challenging for other little kids who are just learning the social piece.

I guess I just don't want to put him in an all SN program if he would be able to thrive in an inclusion one.


Nobody dreams of walking their kid to a self-contained classroom for their first day of school when they get their BFP. I would err on the side of getting the most services at this age so that he'll have the best shot at being prepared for a less restricted setting as he transitions to kindie. If you want to make NT peers available to him, consider a half day traditional preschool on top of the one he gets through the district. 


However, I think I'll have to push hard for inclusion and is it worth it or do some kids need to be in an all special needs program and how do I know? I don't feel like I can trust with that school system says. They are not exactly known for being a great school system.


Do whatever gets him the best services. I would rather frontload interventions early. DS went to high school with a couple kids who have ASD and who attended self contained classrooms for preschool and even as late as the intermediate grades. Most kids with ASD in my district are mainstreamed by middle school and by that time, you can't tell who started where except for a few kids who were identified later and missed out.

DS has an ASD diagnosis. His weaknesses are attending to tasks and focus. He doesn't have meltdowns, but he does whine significantly (though this might just be his age). He is verbal but he does do some scripting and echolalic speech.

Hard to say. He's not even 3. Given the developmental delay piece, he may grow into more challenging behaviors as he gets closer to 4 and 5 before calming down a bit around puberty. With a social/emotional developmental age that's about half that of typical kids, he may not yet be "old enough" to tantrum- He may not be at the Terrible Twos yet. 

[djtippietoes]

These comments make a lot of sense. I think I'm have some trouble separating what his needs actually are vs. what I want them to be. I just talked some with his EI therapist about it and she said that he could probably benefit from a self-contained classroom at first with the expectation that we'd move to inclusion eventually. His biggest issue is lack of focus and attention (which she feels stem from sensory issues). His communication, skills while not as strong as a typical almost-3, aren't bad.

[numbbears]

DS's pre-k is a special needs classroom. There's a NT classroom next door and they eat lunch together then play together during recess.

I do think he gets a lot of modeling from the NT kids. He plays games with them and looks like a typical kid when he's on the playground.

That said, he needs the attention he gets in the small special needs classroom to work on his IEP.

And hugs. It's tough going from the idea of it just being therapy to special education. I think that's when a lot of denial that I'd been dealing with hit me hard. I really thought by the end of EI, he wouldn't need services anymore.

[djtippietoes]

Dec 11, 2016 0:17:42 GMT -5 numbbears said:

And hugs. It's tough going from the idea of it just being therapy to special education. I think that's when a lot of denial that I'd been dealing with hit me hard. I really thought by the end of EI, he wouldn't need services anymore.

Yes, this.

I've been talking to various people who know him (therapists, daycare director, etc) and they all say he needs the self contained classroom bc he has so many focus issues.

Those same people have said, though, that once your sort of on the self contained track, it's very very hard to go back to mainstream or inclusion if I wanted that for him later.

[mrsbuttinski]

Dec 12, 2016 21:04:54 GMT -5 djtippietoes said:

Dec 11, 2016 0:17:42 GMT -5 numbbears said:

Yes, this.

I've been talking to various people who know him (therapists, daycare director, etc) and they all say he needs the self contained classroom bc he has so many focus issues.

Those same people have said, though, that once your sort of on the self contained track, it's very very hard to go back to mainstream or inclusion if I wanted that for him later.

Not buying. 


I suspect most people working with EI and preschool really don't know where kids end up much past the primary grades. In my district most kids on spectrum are mainstreamed; they might spend time in an academic track inclusion class that is co-taught and composed of up to 1/3 kids with IEPs in elementary or 2-3 kids (out of <32) with IEPs in secondary. 


Aside from a child's right to LRE, the costs associated with self-contained classes can be ridiculous- per-student costs can be much higher than for a mainstream student. Autism Speaks put the extra cost at about $8600 per student with ASD as an average. For students with a dedicated para or in a self contained setting with a couple masters level teachers plus support staff, the cost can be over $100K each. 

www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/costs-autism-study-tallies-kids%E2%80%99-higher-health-and-education-needs

[djtippietoes]

mrsbuttinski Interesting, as a relative newbie to the IEP scene, I have no idea how to navigate it all. Just going by what several people told me, though it doesn't make sense.

I know that in my county, there's only 1 inclusion program for 3s. There are many more self-contained. Though I'm not sure why which classroom he was in at 3 would have anything to do with what goes on later like you said.

[djtippietoes]

@kitchen, makes sense.

I think I'm also having a hard time determining the difference (if there is one) about what's best for him and what I want to be best for him.

[mrsbuttinski]

@kitchen, and djtippietoes,

I agree, I have heard this rumor. One of the worst offenders was my own dad- a former public school teacher. I think it often comes from ignorance, is a misguided attempt to show acceptance and support (like family members who dismiss valid concerns), or is a reflection of processing the reality of a dx (usually grandparents).

In reality, kids come and go from special education services and self-contained settings all the time in most places. I've seen kids start out in small ABA classrooms who were fully mainstreamed by 4th. I've seen 2 kids grow into a mental illness at puberty and served in RTF for middle school and return to high school doing really well.

A big piece of this is how the child presents and what their needs are. The path for a child with intellectual disability is going to be different than the child with an EBD, ASD or specific LD. Comorbids also play into this- some bright kids with ASD thrive in the mainstream, but sometimes a child with a similar IQ/presentation plus ADHD, SLD or EBD can't. The only time DS spent in a sped setting (resource room) was for his learning disabilities- once they were remediated fully- he was fully mainstreamed without academic accommodations.

It's hard to let go of the dreams of a typical school experience. YMMV, but I found it got easier as you got a better handle on what sort of student your child is and what has worked well in the past for him. I mean, he's not even 3- there's a lot about him that you just can't know yet.