NSNR Cub Scout Uniform Question

[mamaturtle]

DS was in a tiger den and earned a couple of tiger belt loops last year.  DS is now in a wolf den and has earned 1 belt loop so far.

Can DS wear both tiger and wolf belt loops together or just wolf belt loops?

Thank you.

[mirandah]

Yes, once earned he can continue wearing, although the Cub loops don't fit on the green scout belt so if he switches to the Boy Scout uniform when he is a webelo then he couldn't. I don't know the source of this rule, but I also remember they said because there will be so many loops with the new program that boys are encouraged to wear just a few of their favorites. YMMV though- my den/pack plays fast and loose with the "rules"- I only have one or two boys in my den who wear a belt, and less than half even wear the shirt.

[mrsbuttinski]

Beats me.

Our cubs free-ball, so I have no idea. And I take a minimalist approach on my own uniform; I rarely even wear my Eagle Mother pin or any of my Eagle Mentor pins unless I want to show off.

Trivia question: What is the only emblem a boy can earn as a cub scout that can be worn on his Boy Scout Uniform as a boy scout and as an adult scouter?


Answer: His religious award.

[Deleted]

Yes, I think so. DS generally opts out of the belt though, because the belt loops make putting the belt on really annoying.

[mrsbuttinski]

Here's a local piece_

www.timespub.com/2016/12/12/brent-reilly-earns-rank-eagle-scout/

[mamaturtle]

I think I might just have him wear just the wolf belt loops. Every time DS takes of his belt the belt loops land all over the floor and one is always missing until I look all over for it.

Nobody really can see his belt loops because his Cub Scout shirt is so big. I am glad it is big because it gives DS room to grow and he has a year and a half to wear it.

The only visible award is the actual badge of bobcat and tiger.

[mirandah]

mrsbuttinski, thanks for sharing that article! What a nice looking kid.

I'm curious, while we're on the subject of scouts, if you've seen Troops before that have less of a camping focus. As we get closer to crossing over, I've started poking around looking for a good fit for DS. The troop he is currently affiliated with are hardcore campers. DS (and DH and I) are NOT. We camp twice a year with the cubs and we hate it. (okay DS kindof likes it). The troop camps once a month, year round, and I just don't think DS is going to be into it. He likes camping well enough, with creature comforts like air mattresses and heated swimming pools. The troop spend 2 weeks camping in Alaska this summer (neither DH nor I have that kind of vacation time to burn) and in two years they're hiking Kilimanjaro. It all sounds cool but I just don't see these as realistic for DS.

I plan on asking our district folks, but have you seen Troops that specialize instead on things like STEM projects? DS loves that kind of stuff. My bias is that I grew up in 4H which is very individualized. No one in my club showed animals; we all did citizenship, youth leadership, creative arts, etc.

[mamaturtle]

Dec 14, 2016 11:02:33 GMT -5 mirandah said:

mrsbuttinski , thanks for sharing that article! What a nice looking kid.

I'm curious, while we're on the subject of scouts, if you've seen Troops before that have less of a camping focus. As we get closer to crossing over, I've started poking around looking for a good fit for DS. The troop he is currently affiliated with are hardcore campers. DS (and DH and I) are NOT. We camp twice a year with the cubs and we hate it. (okay DS kindof likes it). The troop camps once a month, year round, and I just don't think DS is going to be into it. He likes camping well enough, with creature comforts like air mattresses and heated swimming pools. The troop spend 2 weeks camping in Alaska this summer (neither DH nor I have that kind of vacation time to burn) and in two years they're hiking Kilimanjaro. It all sounds cool but I just don't see these as realistic for DS.

I plan on asking our district folks, but have you seen Troops that specialize instead on things like STEM projects? DS loves that kind of stuff. My bias is that I grew up in 4H which is very individualized. No one in my club showed animals; we all did citizenship, youth leadership, creative arts, etc.

Geez, camping monthly is too much.

[mrsbuttinski]

You can ask around mirandah,.

The thing is the very things you are describing- a year round program with monthly camping and high adventure for older boys are the hallmarks of a quality scouting program. Instead of finding a troop that doesn't offer that caliber of programming, maybe it makes sense to find one that that makes these available but doesn't penalize a scout who opts out of some of the more rigorous stuff.

Every troop has a different culture around this; some are very gung-ho with the expectation that your kid will take advantage of most age appropriate outings (most high adventure is reserved for boys 13+ who are at least First Class) otherwise they may be denigrated as a "paper scout". STEM is mostly about merit badges; it's really a smaller part of the program relative to camping and community service for older boys.

DS would prefer to camp with a certain level of comfort- he especially likes real toilets and hot showers. But the experience that comes from getting uncomfortable has been more useful for growing him into a resourceful and resilient individual than any other activity into which we placed him with the possible exception of 8 hours of marching band drill in the hot August sun.

My kid has tent camped in subzero weather, in the rain, in the wilderness with just a bag (once with strep throat) and spent 10 days in a heatwave at Jamboree. He survived. Not only is he a tougher person for it, those awful experiences were something over which he bonded with friends. At his Eagle COH which was shared by 4 Eagle from his old Den, there were so many stories of bad food, bad weather, being sick, being lost. Nobody would join after listening to them.

There a great Mike Rowe clip from the Jamboree DS attended (where his crazy scoutmaster took down all the tents to save time leaving the last day and DS ended up sleeping on a wooden pallet in a thunderstorm). He talks about his scouting experience as a kind of CBT.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FyNoiuDfEA

[mirandah]

Dec 14, 2016 16:45:51 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

You can ask around mirandah,.

The thing is the very things you are describing- a year round program with monthly camping and high adventure for older boys are the hallmarks of a quality scouting program. Instead of finding a troop that doesn't offer that caliber of programming, maybe it makes sense to find one that that makes these available but doesn't penalize a scout who opts out of some of the more rigorous stuff.

Every troop has a different culture around this; some are very gung-ho with the expectation that your kid will take advantage of most age appropriate outings (most high adventure is reserved for boys 13+ who are at least First Class) otherwise they may be denigrated as a "paper scout". STEM is mostly about merit badges; it's really a smaller part of the program relative to camping and community service for older boys.

DS would prefer to camp with a certain level of comfort- he especially likes real toilets and hot showers. But the experience that comes from getting uncomfortable has been more useful for growing him into a resourceful and resilient individual than any other activity into which we placed him with the possible exception of 8 hours of marching band drill in the hot August sun.

My kid has tent camped in subzero weather, in the rain, in the wilderness with just a bag (once with strep throat) and spent 10 days in a heatwave at Jamboree. He survived. Not only is he a tougher person for it, those awful experiences were something over which he bonded with friends. At his Eagle COH which was shared by 4 Eagle from his old Den, there were so many stories of bad food, bad weather, being sick, being lost. Nobody would join after listening to them.

There a great Mike Rowe clip from the Jamboree DS attended (where his crazy scoutmaster took down all the tents to save time leaving the last day and DS ended up sleeping on a wooden pallet in a thunderstorm). He talks about his scouting experience as a kind of CBT.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FyNoiuDfEA

Thanks, this camping focus has been a surprise to me! I don't disagree with anything you said except may I ask- did you attend these events with him? Or did you implicitly trust the scouters he was with? DH has heaps of scout stories of crazy scenarios he was in, and I think that is what scares him about DS doing this with a disability. And DH and myself have zero interest being troop leaders. I do know that DS wants to get his eagle badly, so it may end up that he is a "paper" scout who only camps occasionally, to Camporees or some such. Unless there's another troop we find without such a focus. I've looked at two big ones in our neighborhood and they both camp monthly.

[Deleted]

Mirandah, he still has two years until crossing over, right? I feel like there is a lot of growing that can happen in that time.

[mrsbuttinski]

Dec 15, 2016 12:24:54 GMT -5 mirandah said:

Dec 14, 2016 16:45:51 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

Thanks, this camping focus has been a surprise to me!


I'm surprised by that. Camping- it's what scouts do. The whole scouting movement grew out of camping. Camping and outdoors are a big part of the focus of scouting along with community service today.


I don't disagree with anything you said except may I ask- did you attend these events with him? Or did you implicitly trust the scouters he was with?


Of course you can ask. Early on, I tagged along on some of the trips. DH did as well until he had some cardiac issues and had to step back. Like @mightymaude, suggested, your kid is going to be more mature as he gets to the age where he would cross over. He'll be a different kid then.

I often attended summer camp but more to work on advancement with all of the boys. Our unit usually did at least 2 week long summer outings- scout camp for everybody and high adventure for boys about 13-14+. We had a core group of scouters (mostly committee members) who usually volunteered at summer camp helping the younger boys adjust and working them up the ranks. The burly scoutmasters did the high adventure stuff.


By the time DS crossed over I had a pretty good idea of who "got" DS. This allowed us to back off. DS's Den Leader, Cubmaster and Assistant Cubmaster crossed over with him. After 5 years, we knew each other pretty well to the point I could trust them. Aside from the couple times they misplaced him, it was all good. (love those phone calls where they ask if your kid is with you, LOL, he'd asked the SM if he could walk to a friend's house, was given permission and lost track of time playing Halo. SM failed to relay the information to the others before leaving) There were a couple of other parents who had kids with various issues- ADHD, LD, food allergies, mental health stuff- who looked after DS. (one mom worked in the high school and saw DS being bullied and shut that down- she pulled CCTV tapes and got the school's resource officer involved). I looked out for thier other kids, too.

IME, scouting with kids with SN is a bit like school. Where the boy is served educationally is very predictive of their ability to be independent in camping. A kid who needs a para in school is going to need a parent or TSS person at camp. IME, kids who are identified by peers as having significant SN will be given a pass by peers but not as included as those who scout without accommodations. Not all of the SMs got DS; we had one I constantly have to remind about DS. (he's now our district chair- he has 2 doctorates but can be a little flaky) By the time DS was in 8th, I rarely camped with them unless I had some advancement stuff that needed to be done. 

In most units, the first year scouts tend to go on the easier weekend and summer scout camp  outings. Many trips have age and rank limits- usually a scout has to be at least First Class to do the "big boy" stuff. Sometimes DS put up with considerable discomfort to gain access to a really cool place like the USNA or West Point. DS probably had about 80 nights of "tent camping" in the six years before he aged out- most Eagles have over 100 in 6 years, a few make 300. (DS was red shirted, so he aged out the summer before his senior year) Our kids got an award at 100, 200 and 300 nights outdoors. This is tracked by the Advancement Chair and become part of his Eagle Application.

A certain amount of camping is required for rank advancement. Specifically for Eagle, he'll need the camping merit badge and cooking which requires camping. If he's interested in Order of the Arrow (honor society of scouts) he'll need to camp at a specific level to be nominated by his peers- it's pretty rare for a kid to make Eagle w/o doing the OA Ordeal (overnight wilderness camping-solo without talking followed by a day of service and semi-fasting)


DH has heaps of scout stories of crazy scenarios he was in, and I think that is what scares him about DS doing this with a disability.


For the most part this is no longer a thing. OMG, the tales DH tells. Like hauling beer for the scoutmaster on campouts. 


And DH and myself have zero interest being troop leaders.


I do know that DS wants to get his eagle badly, so it may end up that he is a "paper" scout who only camps occasionally, to Camporees or some such.


Paper scout is derisive. It would be better to help you son find a way to scout that works for him and allows him to be seen as an equal by peers. The boys can get crazy competitive about how much effort other boys put in, for the best experience he'd need to camp at a level that is seen as participating- so going on the majority of outings would be a good thing.  


One thing that might be a good fit/opportunity for growth for your DS would be to have him volunteer as a CIT/counselor at your council's summer camp- often they help out in STEM related merit badge classes. Once he hits high school, he'd get a stipend and people upon whom he could call for letters of recommendation for jobs and college admission. Plus, they get a lot of respect from their peers and learn skills they'll need for employment and dorm life. (great preparation against a dx that comes with an 80% unemployment rate or for an only like my DS)


Unless there's another troop we find without such a focus. I've looked at two big ones in our neighborhood and they both camp monthly.

You might not want such a troop. I work with 35 troops in my district, almost all aim to be a JTE gold unit- this requires the almost monthly camping, but also a level of training that is critical to a positive experience for your DS. You want trained scoutmasters and committee who understand the program and are aware of the supports available to deliver a great program. 

This is the rubric for next year-


www.scouting.org/filestore/mission/pdf/2017_JTE_Troop_Scorecard.pdf