So bunnyfungo and juliayadda, I hate to put you on the spot but as mods who previously weighed in do you have any other thoughts now that all has allegedly been explained in mod land?
I still think it was handled poorly. Obviously the admins have their reasons, but those reasons should have been given to @ketchup with receipts. If it was me, I would want to know exactly what I had done wrong and have a chance to defend myself. I also think the admins should have been pro-active with letting the board know what was going on. It never should have had to come from @ketchup. Without being a member of this board or SAIF, and only briefly posting with @ketchup on GKU, I can't say much more. Because I just don't know any of the backstory.
So bunnyfungo and juliayadda, I hate to put you on the spot but as mods who previously weighed in do you have any other thoughts now that all has allegedly been explained in mod land?
I disagree with how the admin processed this mod firing and they are aware of that but do understand their decision.
I'm just getting up to speed but would like to voice my disgust in how the admins have handled this situation. I don't post a ton but have been around since TD, and Ketchup has always been a very supportive member of this community. This is shady as hell.
Me:31 DH:31 TTC since January 2013 1/23/14-Surgery Diagnosis: severe pelvic adhesions from stage 3/4 endo and old ruptured appendix RE Recommends IVF due to likely tubal damage IVF #1- November 2014 - BFP: CP FET #1: February 2015 - BFP: TFMR Anencephaly FET #2: March 2016- BFN FET #3: April 2016- BFP: Team Pink!!! EDD 12/31/16 One precious Baby Girl born 12/26/16 2 Frosties
@ketchup, that explanation makes me even more pissed off for you. That's just ridiculous. And to echo what someone else said, if the complaint is that your personality has been an issue since the TD, then why the hell did they make you a mod in the first place if it's supposedly an issue? This is so fucked up.
Met in May 2011 Engaged November 2011 Married November 2013 Started TTC November 2015 Began Infertility Workup November 2016 BFP! Lucky #13 Cycle TTC Due Date: 9/5/2017
Post by frankenboom on Jan 25, 2017 7:34:43 GMT -5
Well. There goes my theory. @ketchup, I kind of assumed with the fill in the blank and not being able to say more answer, that perhaps something(s) had gone down between you and another poster via PM or off-board completely (FB, text, whatever).
I'm at a loss as to how exactly your personality (especially here on TCF where I have encountered many different/abrasive/good/bad/awful personalities, some of them even mods) could get you permanently banned as a moderator from a board on which the personality "clashes" didn't even happen.
Again, unless there is more to the story, I still can't figure out how this is being justified.
Natural chemical pregnancy 8/2013 Clomid #1 and #2: BFN IVF 1 :0 to use IVF 2:4 great embryos after PGS testing. FET 1: BFP EDD 6/20/15 Chemical Pregnancy FET 2: BFP EDD 11/14/2015 MMC 9.5 weeks twins IVF #3: 2 fair embryos after PGS testing Surprise BFP during break cycle and DD born 4/2016
Post by remylove1011 on Jan 25, 2017 8:06:11 GMT -5
If all that happened was the intereactions I've seen on SAIF, that was not a reason to remove kerchup a mod of a different board. NariaDreaming @tcfnews I'm so disappointed in how this was handled.
Me (30) MH (32) Dx: MFI (low all the things) M. 10/11. TTC Since 01/14 IUI#1-3(Letrozole + Trigger) = BFN Second Opinion. Changed RE's. IVF 09/15 Long Lupron 12R/9M/8F, Transferred 1=BFN. 4 frosties. FET #1 12/15 Transferred 1 (3 still on ice)
Post by NariaDreaming on Jan 25, 2017 9:22:22 GMT -5
Guys,
I'm in and out of meetings all day, Biblio is under the weather, and Theo is working.
I want to be clear that this was not a result of a single thread on SAIF, or a disagreement with a single member. This was the result of ongoing issues that were voiced privately by a number of people. We gave the mods as much information as we could without compromising the confidentiality of our members.
First and foremost, members need to know that if they have concerns about another member or a moderator, that they are safe to share those concerns without fear of disclosure or retaliation.
And please remember that publicly viewable threads are only one aspect of this community. A member's private conversations should remain private, and disclosed only when absolutely necessary. We try to be as transparent as possible, but that transparency has to be balanced with the privacy and anonymity of our members.
5 years TTC 2 c/p's 2 failed IUIs/1 cancelled IVF 1 failed IVF 1 failed FET BFP 12/1/15. We said goodbye to Tiny 1/4/16 Fresh cycle #3 2/16 8R/7M/5F BFP 5/12/16 We said goodbye to flutter on 5/27 and poprock on 5/28 BFP 8/30/16 We said goodbye to Samuel 10/3 (Trisomy 16) Moving on to Donor Embryos BFP 12/20/16 We said goodbye to Turtle 12/30
Well it seems as if the admins have spoken and we're not getting any more info. Honestly ketchup doesn't want the job back the issue is how this was handled. I hope admin takes note of this clustefuck and makes some damn changes. Let me advise you of where you went wrong.
That "warning" a year ago was not a warning. As mentioned this site was created because we're a bunch of snarky people who speak our minds so warning someone to chill with the snark is fucked up as it is. Now if you were warning her because she's a mod and you think her snark was somehow affecting that, then that "warning" needed to state as such. For example it could have looked like this: ketchup as a mod we hold you to higher standards could you please work on keeping your snark in check as we've had some complaints. This is an official warning. Should this not change we will be forced to remove you as mod. End. There that's an official warning! I won't harp on how your warning was not a warning, was a whole year ago, and was just one warning (no three strikes rule here I guess).
I'd also like to point out yet again that other mods and admins can and are snarky so still not sure why ketchups snark is bad but y'all are golden. Hell another mod was in the shoulder thread with a fucking popcorn gif but that's ok apparently!
Next issue with this clusterfuck is that you didn't bother coming to PAIF to explain/announce this decision. Ketchup had to do it herself which looks even worse for admins. An announcement should have been ready to go the moment you messaged ketchup firing her. Your lack of communication makes it appear like you don't care.
Speaking of looking like you don't care... SAIF is a mess as you know because that shoulder thread was the breaking point and there have since been more threads with everyone speaking their minds. No admin has done anything to fix the huge divide on our board (at least nothing I've seen or been told about). BUT GUESS WHAT ketchup was trying to fix it!!! Before you sucker punched her with the firing, ketchup was working for us all and working to get a solution that would make all board members happy. CAUSE THATS THE KIND OF PERSON SHE IS!!!! She cares about us and this community!
You don't want to reveal too much in case you reveal who the complaints came from, fine I get that! There are other ways to be transparent and show you care. I'm missing the part where I/my boards feel cared for in this disaster.
Post by tikoberry99 on Jan 25, 2017 12:30:50 GMT -5
This just seems like such fucking bullshit. I've been on boards with @ketchup for years....dating back to TD when we were both on 3T and yes she can be snarky, but that is what EVERYONE loves about her...she tells it like it is and is probably the most supportive person on this board. I've had to scale back my participation because I now have a 6 month old, but when I do come on here there is ketchup taking the time to write well written responses, some times 3-4 paragraphs long to peoples questions/concerns. I honestly don't know how she does it with a toddler. Mad props to ketchup for her continued support for the IF community.
I'm extremely disturbed NariaDreaming for the way this was handled...have we so quickly forgotten why everyone left TD? I guess history does repeat itself.
So there seems to be some very specific example that was used to make this ruling, but all of ketchup's interactions on this board are either 1) public or 2) PM, and ketchup says they are fine, and I believe her. Is it possible this mysterious example was somehow fabricated? By not sharing with ketchup, you are not allowing her to properly defend herself.
It doesn't sit well with me that all the mods got to see the evidence being used against her, without ketchup getting to see it herself. That's utter nonsense really.
Ketchup and I have not always seen eye to eye, but I have never known her to act in a way that warrants this kind of treatment. She's always been herself, and we elected her as our mod based on exactly who she is. I don't understand what has changed, or why the feelings of one (2, 3? who knows?) are outweighing the feelings of what feels like the majority.
Seriously, Admins, you can explain to ketchup what was brought against her without disclosing who it was. Have ever heard of an anonymous person? You could have PMd her regarding these "incidents" without disclosing who complained. It happens every day in corporate America. Seriously, it's not that hard. This way you could have CYB without all this shit going down. It can go like this: "Hey, @ketchup, there has been a few complaints against you that wish to remain anonymous. Please tone down your snark on board XYZ. This is a formal warning." Now there is a written receipt of shit. See how simple that was? There was no personal info disclosed and ketchup was warned. Not to mention, we wouldn't be having this huge discussion about your lack of reasons, decency, etc.
Mostly, I just find it abhorrent that there is no record of her being warned except from a year ago, off the boards. If that is the only one, then a better explanation is needed for ketchup. She has a right to defend herself whether the decision is final or not. If her behavior is the result of stuff happening on the boards, she should have been warned via this format. If not, an argument could be made that the PM on Facebook is between two friends and in no way counts as a warning. In other words, no formal writing in the TCF format. Again this all goes back to CYB or using common sense, both of which seem to be sorely lacking.
Post by tiffmich08 on Jan 25, 2017 17:56:55 GMT -5
Coming to add to the list of "this is bullshit" comments. I'm rarely on SAIF anymore, b/c honestly, the FB page we have created is by far more welcoming and supportive. @ketchup is about as snarky as they come, but also one of the most helpful, honest and supportive people too. She's been there for anyone who has needed her and to fire her as mod is just absolutely shitty.
I was only on TD for a short time before exodus, but this was the VERY reason I moved over here. It's so disappointing to know that people can be so hypocritical.
**ALL WELCOME** Me: 35 DH: 36 Started TTC: Oct 2013 Nov-Jan IUI 1-3 = BFMFN Feb-Mar Medicated TI =BFMFN Apr 2015 Nadda. Testing with DH to figure out our next step!
Me (30) MH (32) Dx: MFI (low all the things) M. 10/11. TTC Since 01/14 IUI#1-3(Letrozole + Trigger) = BFN Second Opinion. Changed RE's. IVF 09/15 Long Lupron 12R/9M/8F, Transferred 1=BFN. 4 frosties. FET #1 12/15 Transferred 1 (3 still on ice)
Natural chemical pregnancy 8/2013 Clomid #1 and #2: BFN IVF 1 :0 to use IVF 2:4 great embryos after PGS testing. FET 1: BFP EDD 6/20/15 Chemical Pregnancy FET 2: BFP EDD 11/14/2015 MMC 9.5 weeks twins IVF #3: 2 fair embryos after PGS testing Surprise BFP during break cycle and DD born 4/2016
I'm also chiming in to say how sick firing ketchup has made me. WTAF is wrong with you, admins? Ive seen mods aay WAY worse things to people on other boards, and not a peep is said to them. The truth is, anyone that has tried to join SAIF after the fall of 2015 has not felt welcomed at all by the "vets" on that board? Why is that? I think those ladies need to have some moments of self-reflection on this matter. This whole sitch is reminicent of TD and why we landed here. If this is no longer a safe haven, then what is the point? This site was founded in part on the promises of transparency, but its shrouded in bullshit. I get keeping anonymity, and this can be accomplished by not naming names...duh! As for ketchup, we oove her for who she is: caring, factual, and snark. She tells you how it is and doesnt pull any punches. If you want people on here that breed unicorns that fart glitter, be my guest. I go where i feel supported and loved, and that sure isnt SAIF.
Me-35 DH-36 Married since 9/21/2013 DX- Me- PCOS + MTHFR, DH- Perfect and Proven
TTC since 2007 (with a 2.5 year break due to "life restructuring") All BFN's until May 2014 (mc at 5w) and Oct 2014 (mc at 11w3d, 12/16/14), includes 2 failed medicated IUI cycles and 3 failed TI medicated cycles since May 2014
I'm also chiming in to say how sick firing ketchup has made me. WTAF is wrong with you, admins? Ive seen mods aay WAY worse things to people on other boards, and not a peep is said to them. The truth is, anyone that has tried to join SAIF after the fall of 2015 has not felt welcomed at all by the "vets" on that board? Why is that? I think those ladies need to have some moments of self-reflection on this matter. This whole sitch is reminicent of TD and why we landed here. If this is no longer a safe haven, then what is the point? This site was founded in part on the promises of transparency, but its shrouded in bullshit. I get keeping anonymity, and this can be accomplished by not naming names...duh! As for ketchup, we oove her for who she is: caring, factual, and snark. She tells you how it is and doesnt pull any punches. If you want people on here that breed unicorns that fart glitter, be my guest. I go where i feel supported and loved, and that sure isnt SAIF.
As someone who had her first baby in 2013 and second one Dec 2015 I have been on SAIF a while. I am interested in knowing how I could've been more welcoming or where I have failed. I have gone through periods of time where I haven't had time to tcf much so perhaps that is the issue? I am genuinely interested in feedback. I will admit I don't routinely read any of the checkins that don't apply to me.
I'm also chiming in to say how sick firing ketchup has made me. WTAF is wrong with you, admins? Ive seen mods aay WAY worse things to people on other boards, and not a peep is said to them. The truth is, anyone that has tried to join SAIF after the fall of 2015 has not felt welcomed at all by the "vets" on that board? Why is that? I think those ladies need to have some moments of self-reflection on this matter. This whole sitch is reminicent of TD and why we landed here. If this is no longer a safe haven, then what is the point? This site was founded in part on the promises of transparency, but its shrouded in bullshit. I get keeping anonymity, and this can be accomplished by not naming names...duh! As for ketchup, we oove her for who she is: caring, factual, and snark. She tells you how it is and doesnt pull any punches. If you want people on here that breed unicorns that fart glitter, be my guest. I go where i feel supported and loved, and that sure isnt SAIF.
As someone who had her first baby in 2013 and second one Dec 2015 I have been on SAIF a while. I am interested in knowing how I could've been more welcoming or where I have failed. I have gone through periods of time where I haven't had time to tcf much so perhaps that is the issue? I am genuinely interested in feedback. I will admit I don't routinely read any of the checkins that don't apply to me.
No offense taken. It was nothing you did in particular IMO. I felt like i was always looking from the outside in when i first got to saif. I tried to participate, but the more i tried, the less welcome i felt. I never had that issue in 3t, paif, or my bmb. When i discovered the fb group, i natrually migrated there. And really, that's where i will stay. That is home now. Thats where i can kick my shoes off, put up my feet, and have a glass of wine. With my real friends. With some of my best friends.
Me-35 DH-36 Married since 9/21/2013 DX- Me- PCOS + MTHFR, DH- Perfect and Proven
TTC since 2007 (with a 2.5 year break due to "life restructuring") All BFN's until May 2014 (mc at 5w) and Oct 2014 (mc at 11w3d, 12/16/14), includes 2 failed medicated IUI cycles and 3 failed TI medicated cycles since May 2014
sorry you're dealing with this @ketchup. I don't know you well but you are hilarious and an excellent writer, and i've seen you go above and beyond to be supportive to many many people in the IF community here.
and FFS TCF News. +1000 to everyone who's said that Ketchup should know exactly what has been said on that mod board as to the reason why she was relieved of her mod duties. whatever she has done, you guys owe her that much. and if you are not willing to do that, hopefully some other mod will let Ketchup know what they've been told so there can still be some semblance of transparency around here.
Can I also note that I'm annoyed with the lack of communication with the administration on this?
Wasn't everyone SUPER frustrated when Bump May or whomever the hell it was just didn't respond to any requests or questions?
I would think that a list of the exact violations could be outlined here, OR, at the very least, to @ketchup . Then she can report back to us that she was appropriately debriefed. The silence from TCF News is frustrating.
Ketchup has not received the information from the PMs because she has shown now and in the past that she would not keep that information to herself and we need to be able to ensure that we are protecting our members privacy and confidentiality so that they feel they can come to an admin or mod in the event of an issue.
We are truly sorry that her demotion has been so difficult for many of you. We wish things could have gone differently, but unfortunately that was not possible.
*Married 10/2010 *TTC since 2011 (off BC) Charting and Temping *MFI diagnosis (Kleinfelters since 2006) *RE referral April 2014 *BMI goal to start IVF (110 lbs from my highest) ***COMPLETE*** 123# ** IVF #1 August 2015, Antagonist/ICSI/mild OHSS ER 8/19/15 FET #1 October 8, 2015 BFP! EDD 6/25/2016 Team Pink!! ***All Welcome***
That being said, I think it's kinda shitty how things shook out. Several mods have come forward and though they might not like it, they understand the decision. That's enough for me to agree with it I suppose. I've yet to see a mod come back and say "no I don't get it/think it was warranted" (feel free to come forward if this is you)
My suggestion going forward NariaDreaming is to make all warnings official and documented through site PM. (I get not being able to point to specifics if you deem confidentiality necessary). I get taking your time to word answers - you guys have real lives too. But a lot of people are pissed off (rightfully or no) and I think this would have solved a lot of problems.
Question NariaDreaming. I thought there was a certain length of time before you get like a fresh slate? Am I out to lunch?
Id like to think if I got a warning a year ago, but then was good for a year, that a new warning would be a new "first warning?" Or is there no expiry? Like I get 3 warnings in 3 or 6 or whatever months = ban or demod or whatever, but I think there should be a set timeframe if there isn't. Ex. 3 warnings over 10 years =\= bannable kwim?
Just some thoughts.
Again, all I know of this situation is what I read on this thread so feel free to take my unasked-for-strangers-opinions with a grain of salt lol
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