Manipulation or no?

[akafred]

This is really weird. DD (almost 8, anxiety, ADHD, SPD) has twice exhibited behavior that baffles her very experienced teachers. Her main teacher was a public school special ed elementary teacher before becoming a Montessori teacher, and her coteacher has been teaching for over 50 years. And they both think this is genuine behavior and not manipulation.

Basically DD is forgetting, or doing a really convincing job of pretending to forget, how to do her work. In one case she was supposed to multiply 1472 x 4 using manipulatives. The way you do it is to lay out 4 skittles (that look like game board pieces like in "Sorry!") and then get out 1472 in manipulatives and then duplicate it for the other 3 skittles, then combine the manipulatives and count out the product. She laid out 3 skittles instead of 4. She laid out 1472 twice but "forgot" how to do it the third and fourth times and needed the teacher to walk her through it. She has done this dozens if not hundreds of times. The other time this happened a couple weeks ago it was even more remedial, just place value. That night we went home and she was doing math like crazy, including place value.

I really think this is a rebellion against being pushed to do harder work and/or wanting someone to stay by her while she works. But man, they are saying she must be the best actress. So I figure I will ask here.

[akafred]

As spooko pointed out, it seems 1000 times more likely that DD is manipulating than that she is going through some weird random one off temporary neurological events. So I feel pretty sure that's what is going on. But since her teachers are so freaked out about it, I thought I'd see if it's even a possibility. It's not like anything I have heard of before.

[mrsbuttinski]

You say manipulation as if it's a bad thing.

Behavior is communication and this sounds like a protest. Either the task is less preferred at that moment or it requires more concentration than she is willing/capable of expending in the moment or it isn't meaningful to her.

I know a lot of people who have had manipulatives forbidden in their child's IEP because they are ineffective as a teaching strategy for their child or because they add a layer to stress to an already challenging task or because they are distracting. I know a couple of gifted math students who felt manipulatives were a kind of crutch and resented being called upon to use them- they didn't need them. Both of these boys were math majors in college; one completed Tripos at Cambridge and is now a PhD candidate in Theoretical Physics.

[akafred]

It is bad only insomuch as she is using it to avoid doing work she should be doing. It's not a value judgment, but there are only two options here: it is completely involuntary and some weird neurological blackout, or she is voluntarily pretending not to remember how. I think it's the latter but was wondering if the former is even possible. I know it isn't plausible.

The Montessori Method for math is 99% manipulatives at this level. There is no stigma to it. They use manipulatives to show the concrete concepts and work toward the abstract. In the case of the Stamp game it is a step toward the abstract vs the Bank Game, but it is still pretty concrete. She definitely says she hates the Stamp Game, and math in general. I think this is a protest against being pushed to do "second grade work", as well as a protest against being told she can't do her preferred activity which is currently working with circuits because she already mastered it a while ago.

I can work with Char and the teacher to problem solve, but before I can I need to be positive (and help the teacher be positive) that there isn't a chance she is legit forgetting what to do. I do remember her primary teacher saying she thought C had an issue with what she erroneously called "motor planning" because she couldn't seem to remember or think through the set up procedures for work she has done many many times before. In writing this all out I am wondering if she just really doesn't do well with a lot of repetition.

[spooko]

I wonder if she'd "remember" how to do it if she were tasked with teaching it to a younger child. I know she tends to thrive in that helper role and also that you really have to show mastery of the material to not only understand it for yourself but to then teach another.

[akafred]

Apr 19, 2017 8:10:48 GMT -5 spooko said:

I wonder if she'd "remember" how to do it if she were tasked with teaching it to a younger child. I know she tends to thrive in that helper role and also that you really have to show mastery of the material to not only understand it for yourself but to then teach another.

That is a very good suggestion. She REALLY enjoys helping the toddlers, but of course they can't do multiplication . But perhaps there is a kindergartener she could work with, someone she doesn't typically interact (and clash) with.