Are they better off?

[xanthepants]

I was sad the other night realizing that Cosette will most likely not have all the things/opportunities I had growing up. I feel a growing pressure to try and provide those as we save for college,vacations,  pursue getting a larger house in a district with better schools etc.  Probably all of which was just second nature for me growing up (we weren't upper class by any means but  upper middle class). I now compare myself to my brother and sister and how they are able to afford such amazing things for their kids and for us it is a struggle and a sacrifice to keep up. This was weighing on me and I was thinking about how I had it better than Cosette in this way and I was sad honestly. And that got me to thinking about how the world is simply much harsher now. I rode my bike 3 miles to the local pool during the summers by ourselves and never thought twice - Coco -um no way.
I said this to my H and he completely thought the opposite and I was floored. He thinks she has it so good compared to how he was brought up. They struggled with unemployment, lived with his grandmother, were on assistance, etc. I guess sometimes I just forget how different we are and how we landed in the same place. He thinks we spend way too much on her if we buy a gift outside of a birthday or christmas for her. That activities outside daycare are frivolous.  I would hazard a guess that a lot of our parenting disagreements (which honestly there really arent too many actually) stem from this economic barrier more than anything else. We balance each other out and I appreciate that in him.

I guess my question, or point is, do you think your child will have it better or worse than you did?  Maybe this could mean in a financial sense. Maybe an emotional sense. I thought it might be an interesting discussion.

[bantyrooster]

They will have more stability when it comes to having a two parent house hold. From my family standpoint they will have less. Like you I struggle with that. I have come to terms that how I grew up was not the norm. My, single, mom paid for our cars, college, sports, shopping, pretty much whatever we wanted. She also makes more in a month than I make in a year. "Normal" kids have some school loans and don't drive brand new cars. I will help as much as I can though.

H's family is land/farm rich and money poor. They spend like they are rich though. He didn't have all the vacations and new cars like me, but was able to not really "want" for anything. He did have school loans though.

I think you have to remember that she will not know what she is missing or what she has more of because the way you raise her is what she will be use to. Me working part time means we don't take huge vacations. I am okay with that. When they are in school I will work full time again and that extra money will be for college/ vacations.

[paddyb]

currently, financially yes. My parents were POOR when I was born. We lived in married student housing while my dad finished his Phd. While things improved drastically after he graduated, they were still solidly middle class most of my youth.

Everything else, no idea. I think my parents gave us an amazing childhood where we always knew we were loved - and part of that was living in a smaller town where we could do things like ride our bikes to the pool. Henry and Greta probably won't be able to do those things for two reasons: 1 we currently live downtown in a big city, so unless we move, there is just way to much traffic, and 2 social norms have changed so even if we moved to the burbs they probably won't be allowed that freedom (which makes me sad). I hope we are able to/they feel as loved as I did as a kid. I am definitely doing everything I can to make sure they feel that way.

[laurski81]

This is a great topic. I honestly think financially things will be the same for Henry and #2 as they were for both my H and me. My family was slightly upper/middle class and right now my H and I are probably just middle class. Like my parents we will need to save to take trips or do anything major out-side of our normal day-to-day and we have to watch our expenses. Henry doesn't get showered with gifts and we cannot afford to do so even on birthdays or holidays. Neither my H or me ever were growing up either. With my H going to school for the next three years it will make things much, much harder on us. But once he is done things will start to turn themselves around. I do not believe we will ever be upper class by any means but probably right in line with where my parents were.

Emotionally I hope that Henry and #2 have it better then me. My parents are great people (and I am sure my ILs are ok too ) but both my H and me were the first born and we both grew up with a sense of being less important than our sibling. My H's sister is autistic. She needed/needs constant care. My H understands this and knows of the difficulties his parents have faced with her but even still was always pushed to the side and was just expected to take care of himself and succeed with little support from them. I too faced a similar situation but my sister did not have any sort of medical condition that contributed to this. She was just a wild kid, who had no interest in school, liked to do what she wanted when she wanted, and has a personality that just draws people to her. My parents just expected me to do good in school and assumed that I would just make the right decisions. Therefore, I didn't get much of their attention growing up and always felt left out. Honestly it's still that way today.

I hope that because of what both my H and I went through growing up that we are always working hard to show both of our kids that they are important and special. I never want one of them to feel like I or my H did growing up. At the end of the day that is more important to me than any money in the world.

[britbratjf]

When it come to my childhood I think (hope!) that Dagnys will be as good or better than mine. My family was upper middle class and my parents provided a lot for us. We were expected to do well in school, have jobs once we got our licenses and help around the house but we never wanted for anything. We took annual vacations, got new clothes, my parents bought us (used) cars at 16. H & I aren't as well off as my parents but I think overall we will be able to give Dagny everything. I grew up in a nice neighborhood with lots of kids where we played outside all summer by ourselves. I don't anticipate that being any different for Dagny. We live in a very nice, safe neighborhood & I will have no problem with her running around on her own in a few years.

She will certainly be better off than H. H's parents divorced when he was 3 so he was shuffled around a lot. Also his mom held down multiple jobs & he & his bother were on their own a lot as kids. I think she'll be better off emotionally & financial than they were. Much better.

[traceyt07]

This is a great topic & something dh and I were just talking about the other day.

Financially, my kids will be way better off than I was. My family was lower middle class and my parents struggled. I have student loans out the wazoo and anything I wanted as a kid I had to buy myself. Dh's family started out the same way, but fil did very well for himself so he had college paid for, a car, etc.

We are very lucky that financially we're in a good place. Ils have already committed to paying for the kids' college, for which I feel very lucky, but I want them to struggle a bit. Maybe struggle's not the right word, but I refuse to coddle them. I want them to have a job as a teenager. I want them to save up and buy their own car. I don't want to raise kids that feel they are owed anything. I see nothing wrong with having student loans if that's what you need to do in order to make something of yourself.

[xanthepants]

britbratjf, our childhoods sounded similar. I think even if financially we are able to provide a full ride to college I would still expect Cosette to have a summer job if possible (I always did) because I think it builds character and gives a reality. traceyt07, I feel very similar about wanting her to feel a part of ownership and engagement in her higher education or the privelege of owning a car.

[paddyb]

I agree about the summer jobs, even if we pay for school (which I think we will) I expect them to work during the summer once they turn 16 - especially if they want a car (because even if we get them some clunker, I sure as hell am not paying for gas).

[pinkluna]

Financially my kids will be better off. Growing up my parents worked hard to provide what they could, but they didn't have much. While I wasn't deprived of the essentials, most of my toys were second-hand. We didn't go to Disney. We took one family vacation a year and that was a road trip to Mexico to visit family. I remember going to Disney on Ice one time because I won a contest. Trips to the zoo and museums were usually only through school. Education was always a priority for them though. I ended up with a private college education and little school debt thanks to my parent's emotional support, hard work and scholarships.

Education will also be a priority for us as parents. We're currently saving for our kids' college. I still want them to learn responsibility through summer jobs, but I won't expect them to get a full time job while still in school as long as we're still able to support them. I want them to see the world and love to travel as much as we've come to love it. We take them to children shows, special events, and plan to have them involved in dance classes, sports, music etc. We don't go crazy with toys but I love shopping for them. Emotionally I think they are better off as well as they are lucky to have two sets of grandparents who live in town and see them daily and weekly. And DH and I are both more expressive and open in our love to our children. My mom practiced tough love and wasn't the hugging type so for a good part of my pre-teen/teen years I thought she was a mean mom.

[jennmm]

Financially, mine are way better off. We were poor. They're still going to have to work and purchase their own vehicles and such, though. I'm not a fan of buying kids cars. I got a job when I was 16 and worked part time through high school and college so I expect mine to do the same. My parents paid for my college classes and I paid for the books so it worked out that way. How much we pay for college will depend on what school they attend, etc.

[aylafsu1881]

I think my kid will have it better than I did both financially and in an emotional sense. My parents did not make much money but they worked hard to provide what we needed. Any extra money they spent towards our extra curricular activites and put a small amount of money away for us to go to college. In order to do this they had to budget and hold a lot of things back. We at PB and J all the time, we never went out to eat, we never went on a family vacation, we only got new clothes one time a year at the new school year. All of those things kind of sucked but we had other things. I was able to have my own horse and take weekly riding lessons, I got a decent car at 16, I had some of my college paid for. All of those things were great and they were the important things to me. LO def has a better life financially then I did. My H and I really work hard and save (more H than me) to provide for her.

As far as emotionally my parents had a rough relationship. They divorced in HS and that took a big toll on me. The divorce was final after years of fighting. I love my parents but it was def a stressful home life.

[junkytrunk]

My kid will definitely be better off than my H and I were growing up. I had a single mom, and while she didn't make the best money, she did save well. She is where I get my frugality from. My H had 2 parents income, but his mom worked a low pay job most of his youth to be able to be home for them. The only vacations he took growing up was camping because that's all they could afford.

I agree with kids needing to have a job during the summer to pay for gas or anything else they may want to buy. My mom wouldn't let me have a phone until I could pay for it myself. While I know times have changed and kids have phones even younger now because of safety concerns, my kid won't have the newest gadgets out there.

[pegleg715]

I think financially my kids are at about the same place I was in at this age, but things changed a lot for us as we grew up. We never lacked for anything, and we didn't know much about our financial situation. But we lived in a nice suburb with nice things and went on lots of family vacations. My mom never worked, we got cars and credit cards when we were 16, and were expected to work in the summer. Didn't matter what we did with the money, but we were expected to have jobs and go.
However by the time I was 18/19 our financial situation was very different and my parents bought me a house and new car, and my sister a condo and new car, and we lived differently until 2007/8. All that being said, I worked and my sister was in college.

H grew up dirt poor, and had never done family vacations or anything. He had to work to do sports, and such. He has college loans because it was just unrealistic for his parents to pay for college.

I think that financially our kids will be happily middle class, and may not get all the vacations we had as kids, but I can't see that being a problem. They'll be happy, well loved, kids, and I hope that their childhood is as good as mine was, and that we are able to maintain a relationship with them the way I had with my parents.

[starfishy]

I think my kids are about the same. We live in the same neighborhood. My mother and I were/are both teachers. My father and H have similar jobs. I was allowed to choose activities to do outside of school, I went to private K-8 school (which our kids will also attend), and we had music lessons every week. These are things I plan on doing as well. Basically, you get everything you need and Some things you want.
Like my kid is not getting a car.

[MissMusic]

*participating so it shows up in my thread list, so remind me to comment when I've thought about it.

Great topic.

[origamimommy]

Financially, I don't think we were poor, but my parents literally spent every dime they had. I hope to not give the same life to Tyler, but (and J12 knows this) I struggled with spending habits, and I have to very consciously plan out what I can spend before I go somewhere. The tactic that works for me now is every time I want to buy something I haven't discussed with H, I move the cost over into savings, discuss it (or if the "urge" has passed, don't) with H. We are limited to only 5 transfers a month out of savings, and it has been a huge help in increasing our savings and decreasing my spending. Thanks, therapy! MH and I both had student loan debt, and I do not want Tyler dealing with that and feeling stressed and backed into a corner by graduation.

I am on the fence with jobs. I definitely think he should work in the summer, but I worked from the moment I turned 14 constantly. I worked 3 jobs to put myself through college, and I am working full time with a kid now to put myself through grad school. It is exhausting and not fun. I watched 2 of my brothers drop out of college because they would rather work more hours and have more money short term. I would hope he doesn't have to work during the school year, unless it was an internship or small work study type of job. I don't want him to feel entitled at all, and so we work on that all the time, and will continue to as he grows.

I feel like he is better off emotionally regardless than I was. My parents were always yelling, threatening divorce, telling us to go away so they could have a break, or they couldn't stand us. I will not allow myself to be that parent, and I think that is worth way more than money.

[cbear]

We were always middle class and I think when I was really young we were lower middle class but honestly my childhood was great and I didn't know any different! My dad owned his own business and my mom worked PT Until I was about 2 then She went and got her masters. I had a small amount of student loans - they paid my 2 years community college out of pocket and then did a parent plus loan for my last 2 years, so honestly it wasn't anything I couldn't pay off quickly.

I was always engrained with a strong work ethic and worked even in HS and had 3 jobs while In college although I probably didn't necessarily need to. They did buy my sister and I a rental house to live in during college and we paid him a small monthly rent then when my sister graduated I found some friends to be my roommates and they paid him as well.

I think right now we are the same middle class- obviously me going PT right now has been a little budget hit DH is in a position that will only go up. So yes we need to save for bigger trips etc but are fine for smaller get a ways and extra curricular activities for the girls, right now gym classes for E.

I had a great childhood and like @pegleg said i hope I can give the girls the same and have a continued great relationship with them!

[Deleted]

I think financially we are about where my family was at growing up. Maybe slightly better off. We vacationed every summer, day to day we had all that we needed and extras. Now we vacation almost twice a year with the kids, it is our most favorite thing to do. We have everything we need plus more but we do not live extravagantly. Our house is small and just average but we live in a great neighborhood. Homeschooling and paying for all the activities they do does take a chunk out of our budget.

Emotionally my childhood sounds a lot like laurski81 except my sister was older and she was a rebel, caused a lot of trouble in our family and then really wasn't around much from middle school and up. I was always the "good" kid so there was just an expectation for me to do what I was supposed to without my parents needing to be involved. I was very lonely growing up and I think that is why I had so many kids. I did not want that for them. I hope they will always be able to at least have one sibling they can be close with at any given time. I also go out of my way to make sure I spend time encouraging and working with each one and I am much more involved.

[jodielyn10]

Mar 2, 2015 12:47:54 GMT -5 britbratjf said:

When it come to my childhood I think (hope!) that Dagnys will be as good or better than mine. My family was upper middle class and my parents provided a lot for us. We were expected to do well in school, have jobs once we got our licenses and help around the house but we never wanted for anything. We took annual vacations, got new clothes, my parents bought us (used) cars at 16. H & I aren't as well off as my parents but I think overall we will be able to give Dagny everything. I grew up in a nice neighborhood with lots of kids where we played outside all summer by ourselves. I don't anticipate that being any different for Dagny. We live in a very nice, safe neighborhood & I will have no problem with her running around on her own in a few years.

She will certainly be better off than H. H's parents divorced when he was 3 so he was shuffled around a lot. Also his mom held down multiple jobs & he & his bother were on their own a lot as kids. I think she'll be better off emotionally & financial than they were. Much better.

britbratjf, I could have practically written this post LOL.  The only difference is that my H and I are better off than my family was growing up.  We were pretty solidly middle-class for most of my life. We always had enough, had a nice home in a good neighborhood, saved for vacations, etc.  We started out fairly low-middle class/poor.  My dad supported our family on just a teaching sallary until my mom had enough of not making ends meet and went to work.  I think having the experience of feeling like we didn't *quite* have enough early on made me always feel like we had less than we did for the rest of my childhood.  My H was poor growing up.  Divorced parents, siblings were much older, so he was just kind of shuffled around between his mom and sisters. 
It's sort of strange for me and my H because we are what I would consider upper middle class now and so we could provide much more in the way of "stuff" for our kids than our parents did for us.  I hope, though, that my kids have the kind of childhood I did: playing with friends all summer long in the neighborhood, sports, summer vacation, part-time jobs for spending money, etc.  I think I had a pretty great childhood, looking back, so I want that for my kids.

[sarasansh]

Financially I think we're slightly better off, and emotionally I think it's about the same. I had no awareness growing up, but my parents worked very hard to make ends meet. They also made a lot of questionable financial decisions and it took them a long time to work their way out of CC debt. Then in 2000 my mom switched careers and got hired on to manage the Phen-Fen class action suit, which came with a substantial pay increase, and since then they've been very generous with what they've provided for me, as well as us as a family and for Robin.

I had a summer job every year starting when I was 14, and I will want Robin to do the same. It got me out of the house, all of my friends worked at the same place (summer day camp), and it definitely taught me responsibility.

As far as big ticket things like vacations and cars, my parents bought me a car for my college graduation. I don't know if I'd buy Robin a car--it would depend on a lot of factors besides the financial aspect. For vacations, we're lucky because DH has family in Florida, so when we go there a lot of living expenses are covered or lessened, and he has a very well off uncle that has a house in Martha's Vineyard that we're able to use for free. For other big vacations, I think one every few years would be nice. There are a lot of kids in my class who go to Disney every single year, and that definitely won't be us. I only went once as a child and I wish I'd gone again. So we'll find some sort of middle ground.

I had to pay for a portion of my college with loans, as well as all of my grad school. It's been almost 9 years and I'm still paying college off, which sucks. I'd like to say that I won't let that happen for Robin, and we'll certainly save for college, but a lot of it will depend on where he decides to go. My undergrad cost almost 50k a year, and if Robin picks a school like that, chances are slim we'll be able to cover the whole thing for him.

[trixi282]

From my perspective I think our kids will have better off than me, but not drastically.  However, they will likely have less than H did growing up - though he seems a bit less concerned about that as he knows they will still have 'plenty'.  We do have a few discussions/arguments about money but it's always seem.

I try not to compare myself with my bro/SIL since they live in an area with a lot lower COL (especially when we were in VA).  Anyway, we struggled a LOT in VA with "extras". 

I would love for J to have activities and things that I didn't do but wanted to (dance, gymnastics), but I also know she doesn't need them to have a fun and memorable childhood.  I did softball and school sports, but that was it, other activities were to expensive.  H didn't do tons of activities (mainly baseball in and out of school), but his family did do quite a few family vacations which I didn't do and would love to!

Overall I'm ok with how our kids will be whether or not they have lots of activities and things... just remember she's much more in need of your attention and love!

ETA: When it comes to college and big things I think our kids will be a bit more like me but with more help.  I paid for most of my college and had student loans.  I don't see how realistically we could pay for college like H was given by his parents - unless something magical happens. 

[xanthepants]

I was reading that I should be putting $1000 a month away for college for each child. I about pooped my pants. That isn't happening anytime soon. Or ever. I don't know how my parents did it with 4 kids. Maybe they were making sacrifices that looking back I just never noticed. Maybe we ate a lot more casseroles than I remember.

[pinkluna]

Mar 2, 2015 18:01:30 GMT -5 xanthepants said:

I was reading that I should be putting $1000 a month away for college for each child. I about pooped my pants. That isn't happening anytime soon. Or ever. I don't know how my parents did it with 4 kids. Maybe they were making sacrifices that looking back I just never noticed. Maybe we ate a lot more casseroles than I remember.

No way!  I can't remember what goal we set with our financial advisor but we agreed on $200 per month per kid.  I think that's assuming they'd go to a public school. 

[paddyb]

Mar 2, 2015 18:01:30 GMT -5 xanthepants said:

I was reading that I should be putting $1000 a month away for college for each child. I about pooped my pants. That isn't happening anytime soon. Or ever. I don't know how my parents did it with 4 kids. Maybe they were making sacrifices that looking back I just never noticed. Maybe we ate a lot more casseroles than I remember.

that is insane.  Assume you started now, that would be approximately $186,000, is you stashed it under a mattress. How expensive exactly did that article think school would be/how bad a ROI are they anticipating???

[britbratjf]

Oh I also wanted to add that my parents didn't pay for my college. They helped but my grandparents paid for the majority, they set up college funds for us and my money held up well. I ended up with around 15,000 in student loans which I paid off fast. We are contributing what we can to a college fund for Dagny & my Dad has another fund set up for her. I also think we'll be in a position to help while she's in school. I don't want her to have a ton of loans like H but at the same time its a reality she's going to have some, we can't afford to pay for it all.

[starfishy]

Maybe FFCM but im saving to help my children with college/trade school, but they will have to take out loans. I'm going to help them but I will not pay for them to go to school because 1. We won't be able to and 2. I think some responsibility falls on the student.
I'm still paying off my loans and I have never once felt that my parents did me a disservice.

[pegleg715]

$1000 a month per kid?!? That is insane! We pay that per month for CS and it scks. But we know it ends in 6 years.

However when you consider that's less than 200k when they get there and that college is roughly 50k a year.... It kinda makes sense if you do want to just write a check for college. But in all honesty we don't have an extra $3000 a month to put into savings.

[britbratjf]

Uh @pegleg in state tuition at my alma matter is $10,500. Add another $10,000 for room & books and college is about $20,000. $50,000 is nuts for in state at public university....

[pegleg715]

Mar 2, 2015 20:29:15 GMT -5 britbratjf said:

Uh @pegleg in state tuition at my alma matter is $10,500. Add another $10,000 for room & books and college is about $20,000. $50,000 is nuts for in state at public university....

I don't mean in state. Private colleges.
Eta: I just assume this is meant to prepare you for all college situations. I think it's nuts and won't be doing it. But I imagine it's meant to prepare for worst (or best maybe?) case scenario.

[heatherbee]

DH and I are in a better position financially then my mom was (single mom, high school degree, but worked her @$$ off to buy us a small house in a great school district) but not as good as my DH's parents (his dad is a project manager and does well). We already own a home nicer then the one I grew up in, but not quite as nice as my DH's growing up. My parents were not able to help me with college (just wasnt possible) and I have a decent amount of student loans to pay back. DH had almost a free ride to college. I worked my butt off and have had jobs since I was 14, including 4 jobs while in college. I have bought everything for myself - cars, rent, carried my own health insurance from 20 on. DH has had more financial help (cars bought for him, help with rent while in school, etc). I feel strongly that my kids should work. I would like to help them with college, but do not plan on paying for it all. Maybe if I win the lottery