March Book Club, week 2: Soulless, chapters 4-6

[owlishbookish]

We're starting to see the characters and setting more established, so let's take a look at them this week.

Now that you've had more time to observe Alexia, do you have new insight into what it means to be soulless?

What are your observations on the claims of supernatural influence on history up until the time the story takes place?

Discuss Alexia's differences from other women of her time.  

Alexia meets an American gentleman in chapter 5.  Discuss the differences between the state of supernaturals in England and America.

Is this your first steampunk novel?  Describe what you have observed about the genre so far.

[aggiebug]

Can I just say Alexia batting her eyelashes like Ivy cracked me up. Social interaction is not natural but is a practiced facade to allow her to fit it. That is the biggest thing I have found with her being soulless. I wonder if her dad discussed all this with her or did she have to learn it on her own?

Alexia has feelings and emotions but they don't drive her actions it seems.

[aggiebug]

I think the contrast of the Americas vs Europe's handling of the supernaturals is interesting.

Europe has evolved to integrate them into society as a way to control them and live together where as in America they are not interested so they are outlaws of sorts living on the fringe of society and the problems that have resulted because of it.

[owlishbookish]

aggiebug In the beginning of the book, it was revealed that Alexia didn't know she was soulless until an official from the civil service showed up and told her so at age 6. The narrator also revealed that her father is dead. The official explained to her what being preternatural meant and she took it upon herself to educate herself.

Basically, Alexia's soulless state means that she lacks certain things. Specifically mentioned are morals and creativity. I also noticed that she has fewer inhibitions than run-of-the-mill human beings. Her lip lock with Lord Maccon is a good example of this. She engaged willingly and with gusto, but it was only after that she thought she should be scandalized, and that was only because of her self-education in what society expected of her.

I found the way Carriger inserted supernatural traditions into the structures of ancient civilizations to be really interesting. Her explanation that the Romans built their society on the habits of the vampire hives was especially intriguing.

I love that Alexia owns her bluestocking tendencies without thinking she needs to hide it, especially during a time when such tendencies aren't favored for women. She's also less self-conscious, which is refreshing.

It would seem that Puritan society is the key reasoning for the differences between American and British views on the supernaturals, which makes a great deal of sense. It makes you wonder about the reason for the witch trials in Alexia's world.

[aggiebug]

Ahh I missed that detail in the beginning, I will blame it on reading while half asleep. I wasn't sure when her dad died I knew it was when she was young.

And it seems she lacks more than creativity and morals. She seems to use Ivy and a study for how to act socially as well.

[owlishbookish]

Mar 12, 2015 17:52:52 GMT -5 aggiebug said:

Ahh I missed that detail in the beginning, I will blame it on reading while half asleep. I wasn't sure when her dad died I knew it was when she was young.

And it seems she lacks more than creativity and morals. She seems to use Ivy and a study for how to act socially as well.

Well, except for her cues in what hats to wear.  LOL

[aggiebug]

Mar 12, 2015 17:58:23 GMT -5 owlishbookish said:

Mar 12, 2015 17:52:52 GMT -5 aggiebug said:

Ahh I missed that detail in the beginning, I will blame it on reading while half asleep. I wasn't sure when her dad died I knew it was when she was young.

And it seems she lacks more than creativity and morals. She seems to use Ivy and a study for how to act socially as well.

Well, except for her cues in what hats to wear.  LOL

Too true!

[joi922]

Mar 12, 2015 17:29:10 GMT -5 owlishbookish said:

aggiebug In the beginning of the book, it was revealed that Alexia didn't know she was soulless until an official from the civil service showed up and told her so at age 6. The narrator also revealed that her father is dead. The official explained to her what being preternatural meant and she took it upon herself to educate herself.

Basically, Alexia's soulless state means that she lacks certain things. Specifically mentioned are morals and creativity. I also noticed that she has fewer inhibitions than run-of-the-mill human beings. Her lip lock with Lord Maccon is a good example of this. She engaged willingly and with gusto, but it was only after that she thought she should be scandalized, and that was only because of her self-education in what society expected of her.

I found the way Carriger inserted supernatural traditions into the structures of ancient civilizations to be really interesting. Her explanation that the Romans built their society on the habits of the vampire hives was especially intriguing.

I love that Alexia owns her bluestocking tendencies without thinking she needs to hide it, especially during a time when such tendencies aren't favored for women. She's also less self-conscious, which is refreshing.

It would seem that Puritan society is the key reasoning for the differences between American and British views on the supernaturals, which makes a great deal of sense. It makes you wonder about the reason for the witch trials in Alexia's world.

I agree with a lot of this.  Is Alexia's lack of morals mentioned in the book?  I don't find her immoral - she understands the difference between right and wrong, good behavior and bad behavior (ex: killing people, supernatural or not, is wrong), etc.  I just think she cares less about social mores, thanks to her soullessness. 

I wondered if her reaction to the kiss was a combination of soullessness and her spinsterhood.  She knew it wasn't socially acceptable, especially on a public street, but went for it anyway because she figured she wouldn't have many similar chances.  There was definitely also a brief consideration of scandal, and that she should be outraged at his behavior in "taking advantage", but she pretty quickly moved past that so she could enjoy herself. 

Like you, I really loved the Puritan explanation for the American view of supernaturals.  That takes me back to a great Robin Williams skit: "Puritans, a group of people so uptight even the British kicked them out!"  I also think the description of how supernaturals have been shunned in American society fits with the American history of discrimination in general - particularly in that time period. 

[owlishbookish]

Mar 13, 2015 9:04:39 GMT -5 joi922 said:

I agree with a lot of this.  Is Alexia's lack of morals mentioned in the book?  I don't find her immoral - she understands the difference between right and wrong, good behavior and bad behavior (ex: killing people, supernatural or not, is wrong), etc.  I just think she cares less about social mores, thanks to her soullessness. 

I wondered if her reaction to the kiss was a combination of soullessness and her spinsterhood.  She knew it wasn't socially acceptable, especially on a public street, but went for it anyway because she figured she wouldn't have many similar chances.  There was definitely also a brief consideration of scandal, and that she should be outraged at his behavior in "taking advantage", but she pretty quickly moved past that so she could enjoy herself. 

Like you, I really loved the Puritan explanation for the American view of supernaturals.  That takes me back to a great Robin Williams skit: "Puritans, a group of people so uptight even the British kicked them out!"  I also think the description of how supernaturals have been shunned in American society fits with the American history of discrimination in general - particularly in that time period. 

Her lack of morals is mentioned in chapter 1.  Her response to learning this of herself is what prompted her to study philosophy in order to develop something as close to morals as she can.

[joi922]

Mar 13, 2015 9:31:35 GMT -5 owlishbookish said:

Mar 13, 2015 9:04:39 GMT -5 joi922 said:

I agree with a lot of this.  Is Alexia's lack of morals mentioned in the book?  I don't find her immoral - she understands the difference between right and wrong, good behavior and bad behavior (ex: killing people, supernatural or not, is wrong), etc.  I just think she cares less about social mores, thanks to her soullessness. 

I wondered if her reaction to the kiss was a combination of soullessness and her spinsterhood.  She knew it wasn't socially acceptable, especially on a public street, but went for it anyway because she figured she wouldn't have many similar chances.  There was definitely also a brief consideration of scandal, and that she should be outraged at his behavior in "taking advantage", but she pretty quickly moved past that so she could enjoy herself. 

Like you, I really loved the Puritan explanation for the American view of supernaturals.  That takes me back to a great Robin Williams skit: "Puritans, a group of people so uptight even the British kicked them out!"  I also think the description of how supernaturals have been shunned in American society fits with the American history of discrimination in general - particularly in that time period. 

Her lack of morals is mentioned in chapter 1.  Her response to learning this of herself is what prompted her to study philosophy in order to develop something as close to morals as she can.

Thanks!  Must have skimmed right over that. 

[elsiemae]

I find that her soullessness also shows in the way she is always thinking. I feel like years of studying how she should behave, has led her to not be able to shut her brain off at certain times. Like how she was thinking of every detail while she was making out in the street.

I also find it interesting the the author added supernaturals into other historical events. And I feel that it would be true that America would be considerably less tolerable of supernaturals.