2 separate issues, gathering thoughts on each/either

[spooko]

Background: DS, 7.5, ADHD (impulsive, hyperactive, medicated)

Issue 1:

DS is very bright but fails to apply himself to his schoolwork or homework, and he lacks a certain inner drive that would make him want to move ahead. The teacher would like to work with him on harder stuff, but he is just slopping stuff down on his homework and being disrespectful about getting it done appropriately. Furthermore, when he has the opportunity to work ahead in class on the iPads, he is intentionally choosing levels that are too easy for him and not making use of the programs wisely to advance. Part of my issue here is that he's not doing the homework thoroughly and neatly. The teacher is unhappy with this and wanting me to stay on top of him. On the one hand, I want to just let her deal with him. If he doesn't do it sufficiently, he should have to do it again for her. OTOH, she has worked tirelessly to have him be a successful student and since it's homework, I guess I should be doing my share and not adding more to her plate with him. I don't know how I feel about this.

A secondary concern is her wanting to advance him. I'd love to see him stay on the brilliant trajectory he's on. But at the same time, I feel like it's been a very short time that he's even been able to moderately control himself in class and we have bigger fish to fry at this point. I can't care as much that he's not working ahead to his full potential when we have more serious issues with behavior and expectations. Half the year he hasn't even been allowed on the electronic equipment for misuse, so even if he's not excelling with it, at least he isn't in trouble? IDK what to think about this. I can't manufacture motivation in him. We've talked about it and I think I may have gotten him to look at the programs differently, but it's got to come from him. (In discussion, he told me he chooses the easier levels because then he can level up faster and beat more, because he's looking at it like an arcade game. I related it to wrestling--pinning a newbie isn't worth anything; there's a much higher value and pride to be had from fewer pins that are challenging. Unless he, personally, realigns his mind to prioritize the fewer challenges and successes over the mass quantity of wins, though, I can't do much...especially when he's at school).

Issue2:

DS is the self-sabotage king. We're seeing in more and more over time. Any time something upcoming is mentioned (positive reward or negative consequence, doesn't matter), he totally blows it. No matter how no-pressure the approach is. No matter how big or small it is. No matter how much he wants it. It's just a really, really serious challenge for him. Since we've kind of realized the severity, we've stopped talking about anything upcoming. We reward him after things have gone well, but we don't talk about anything upcoming. This last week of doing so has gone much smoother than before, so it seems to be helping. But I don't know if we should be handling it that way. OTOH, it's working. If it helps, I don't know that we would want to do something different. Obviously it wasn't working before to tell him what was hanging in the balance for him. OTOH, I don't know if we're artificially insulating him from real issues he's going to have to be able to deal with at some point. I mean, he can't go through his whole life sabotaging anything he knows is coming up. At some point a boss is going to say you need to do X or Y is going to happen. Or, if you can get A done by Friday, B will happen. But if this is something that we should be working with him on, I honestly don't even know where to begin. I feel like we've tried every variation of setting him up to know what's going to happen and it always goes poorly.

I'm not sure if I explained any of this well. My mind is swimming.

[akafred]

Couple things. Char does most of that too, although she doesn't specifically have homework, and I think it's all related to that perfectionism that stems from a certain level of anxiety. I never really thought of her as an "anxious" kid and I still don't really, but there's something driving this behavior.

Also, it's ok if you don't have a quick fix for this stuff. Yes, someday he wi have to know how to deal with things in the future without sabotaging himself. But he's 7, not 17. Try to focus on how to help him build these skills vs worrying about the skills he's deficient on. He'll get there, but forcing something on him when you know he doesn't have the skills to handle it isn't going to help him gain the skills. That goes for the homework piece too. Of course there's a very important practice component to perfecting new skills. If you want your kid to get better at swimming you do have to go to the pool. But you don't have to throw him in the deep end because he'll need to be able to swim there when he's 25, either. Baby steps.

I wish I could help more. As I said I think we're dealing with this exact thing.

[spooko]

Thanks. I am constantly thinking about preparing him to be a successful adult, as it's my #1 goal in life. I do think that causes me to get ahead of myself. I also constantly feel like my life is operating at warp speed and as though time to get all the kinks worked out is rapidly slipping away. How the hell is he almost 8 already?! Plus, I am very involved with him and see all of his peers as a result, making me really realize all the work still left on our plate. It's so easy to feel frantic!

While I think there's a definite underlying anxious piece (which doesn't really manifest classically so I've been missing it), I think the homework issue is a matter of combined laziness and disinterest. I just don't know who's problem that is, lol!

[bubbalicious]

Random thoughts.

My radar went up for anxiety as well. The rewards stuff is what brought that idea to me. Is he getting geared up for any attention.

Also is this true for homework. Is he feeding off the negative energy b/c it is greater than positive? I recentyly had a tour of a private school and they talked about perservance. I found it really irritating. We have kids who have all the energy in the world. Give them the thing that interests them and there is not stopping them. They are hard workers but easily get down b/c of struggles. I wonder what is the struggle for your ds? I think your redirect on the wrestle is fantastic!

I will read again (on the run currently so wrote a quick post)...Is your ds in sports? just curious

[akafred]

I don't believe kids are lazy. Unmotivated in a particular area? Sure, sometimes. But they are always doing something.

For Char it very much is not wanting to be "bad" at things. If this were your son's issue, it would manifest exactly as you describe. Homework is difficult because she isn't good with fine motor stuff, has poor handwriting, lacks executive function to organize thoughts, and so on. Because she isn't "good" at it, she would blow it off, refuse to do it, and so on. If I pushed her harder, she would get worse and worse at it as she saw herself as worse and worse at it. It would become a self fulfilling prophesy as part of the self sabotage. This is kind of what I was trying to get at in the homework post on the other board; homework itself doesn't build these missing skills; it just highlights where there are deficits and makes the child feel worse and worse about himself, which makes him really, REALLY not want to do it.

[spooko]

Mar 19, 2015 14:16:14 GMT -5 bubbalicious said:

Random thoughts.

My radar went up for anxiety as well. The rewards stuff is what brought that idea to me. Is he getting geared up for any attention.

Also is this true for homework. Is he feeding off the negative energy b/c it is greater than positive? I recentyly had a tour of a private school and they talked about perservance. I found it really irritating. We have kids who have all the energy in the world. Give them the thing that interests them and there is not stopping them. They are hard workers but easily get down b/c of struggles. I wonder what is the struggle for your ds? I think your redirect on the wrestle is fantastic!

I will read again (on the run currently so wrote a quick post)...Is your ds in sports? just curious

DS very much into sports. He's wrestling 2-3 times a week right now, even being invited to the middle school practices. He will be transitioning to soccer soon and has been moved up a level there. We pretty much relate to sports whenever possible. And we also insist on good (enough) school behavior and performance to participate in sports.

akafred, I think I kind of just lump unmotivated and lazy together, mentally. You're right, though, in that he has no real motivation or drive to do it. It isn't interesting, he doesn't care about pleasing his teacher, he just wants it done and to move on. Therefore, it's sloppy, he skips steps, and he just jots down whatever without thinking. These are 5 problem worksheets, though. I don't think this is an ability issue. Maybe I'm off base.

[hopecounts]

How does he respond if you make him keep doing it until it's correct, not as punishment but as 'you can't do Y until X is completed properly'?
Would he realize it's quicker to get it done right then have to do it over again?

[spooko]

Mar 19, 2015 15:20:05 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

How does he respond if you make him keep doing it until it's correct, not as punishment but as 'you can't do Y until X is completed properly'?
Would he realize it's quicker to get it done right then have to do it over again?

That's what I'm going to end up trying and hope it works. I was just having him do it and trying to let the teacher deal with it before. I guess it isn't really set up to work that way.

[mrsbuttinski]

Mar 19, 2015 11:52:50 GMT -5 spooko said:

Background: DS, 7.5, ADHD (impulsive, hyperactive, medicated)

Issue 1:

DS is very bright but fails to apply himself to his schoolwork or homework, and he lacks a certain inner drive that would make him want to move ahead.

This sounds very familiar. DS pretty much lacked any internal motivation to excel academically. It just was not a part of who he is. This was very frustrating for us as parents as it was completely outside the values with which we grew up. DS never self identified as a good student even though he never thought of himself as being less capable than other students.

The teacher would like to work with him on harder stuff, but he is just slopping stuff down on his homework and being disrespectful about getting it done appropriately.

Be careful ascribing motives. This is only disrespectful if he considers screwing off disrespectful. As in "i'll show her" while twiddling his thumbs. Don't assume he believes this just because you have talked to him about it. He might not make the connection. His performance may be because he doesn't value the work, because he is conserving energy (lazy) for things he wants to do, or because he's bored.

Furthermore, when he has the opportunity to work ahead in class on the iPads, he is intentionally choosing levels that are too easy for him and not making use of the programs wisely to advance.

Why is he choosing a dumbed down level? Is he anxious about getting answers wrong? Does he not want to be ahead of his peers? Does he like the predictability of lessons he's done previously? Is he lazy and not interested in doing additional work?

Part of my issue here is that he's not doing the homework thoroughly and neatly. The teacher is unhappy with this and wanting me to stay on top of him. On the one hand, I want to just let her deal with him. If he doesn't do it sufficiently, he should have to do it again for her. OTOH, she has worked tirelessly to have him be a successful student and since it's homework, I guess I should be doing my share and not adding more to her plate with him. I don't know how I feel about this.

There are a couple ways to approach this. Normally I am hands-off around school issues. It's his homework- he should bear the responsibility for it. But I think working together with the teacher might work. The 3 of you sit down and discuss a plan for homework. Take the vague off the table- he sounds like the sort of kid who wants to expend the least effort. The teacher should have clearly stated expectations for the work- like spelling sentences need to be at least five words long for instance. She should show him what the finished assignment should look like. 

Your role is to sit him down after school and let his life begin after the work is done. Home, toilet, snack and water- then homework.

A secondary concern is her wanting to advance him. I'd love to see him stay on the brilliant trajectory he's on. But at the same time, I feel like it's been a very short time that he's even been able to moderately control himself in class and we have bigger fish to fry at this point. I can't care as much that he's not working ahead to his full potential when we have more serious issues with behavior and expectations. Half the year he hasn't even been allowed on the electronic equipment for misuse, so even if he's not excelling with it, at least he isn't in trouble? IDK what to think about this. I can't manufacture motivation in him. We've talked about it and I think I may have gotten him to look at the programs differently, but it's got to come from him. (In discussion, he told me he chooses the easier levels because then he can level up faster and beat more, because he's looking at it like an arcade game. I related it to wrestling--pinning a newbie isn't worth anything; there's a much higher value and pride to be had from fewer pins that are challenging. Unless he, personally, realigns his mind to prioritize the fewer challenges and successes over the mass quantity of wins, though, I can't do much...especially when he's at school).

Maybe it's best to work on teaching him to be a student and worry less about getting ahead academically. If he has any gifts, they're not going anywhere. While iPads can be used to supplement learning, maybe they're not the tool for him. Perhaps she could give him something like the old school SRA boxed reading activities or something more old school.

Issue2:

DS is the self-sabotage king. We're seeing in more and more over time. Any time something upcoming is mentioned (positive reward or negative consequence, doesn't matter), he totally blows it. No matter how no-pressure the approach is. No matter how big or small it is. No matter how much he wants it. It's just a really, really serious challenge for him. Since we've kind of realized the severity, we've stopped talking about anything upcoming. We reward him after things have gone well, but we don't talk about anything upcoming. This last week of doing so has gone much smoother than before, so it seems to be helping. But I don't know if we should be handling it that way.

There sounds like an anxiety driven behavior.

OTOH, it's working. If it helps, I don't know that we would want to do something different. Obviously it wasn't working before to tell him what was hanging in the balance for him. OTOH, I don't know if we're artificially insulating him from real issues he's going to have to be able to deal with at some point. I mean, he can't go through his whole life sabotaging anything he knows is coming up. At some point a boss is going to say you need to do X or Y is going to happen. Or, if you can get A done by Friday, B will happen. But if this is something that we should be working with him on, I honestly don't even know where to begin. I feel like we've tried every variation of setting him up to know what's going to happen and it always goes poorly.

It's like you're in my head. You have presented the $64K Question around a capable kid- how much do you set him up to be successful so he can feel good about himself as a capable student/kid and how much do you deliberately get him out of his comfort zone knowing that's from where real growth comes. 

We were advised to look ahead to five years and focus on the skills he'll need to thrive there. For us, academically, it meant working to change his thinking about himself as a student and getting him to take more ownership of his school work. We also kept up with Cub Scouts as a values-based activity. Cub Scout Motto- Do Your Best.

I'm not sure if I explained any of this well. My mind is swimming.

[akafred]

It doesn't matter at all if he ACTUALLY can do the work well. The only thing that matters for homework to be a self sabotage issue is whether HE thinks he can do the work well or not. If homework has already been a struggle because of attention issues and other factors, it's going to take a while for him to view homework as an activity he can be successful at. If he is like Char, and I think he is, he won't view homework as a worthwhile activity if he doesn't see it as something he can succeed at. And the more frustrated you are with him over it, the worse it will become for him. JMO of course. I am no expert, just seeing this in my kid and starting to realize the impact.

[spooko]

I understand what you're saying now, akafred. I think he waffles on whether he can do it or not. Some days he doesn't want to because it's too easy and a waste of his time. Sometimes he doesn't want to because he'd just rather do anything else. And I do think sometimes he doesn't want to because anything and everything is overwhelming at the moment and even the thought of A WHOLE SHEET psychs him out. Honestly, I'm not frustrated about the homework at all. I've happily let the teacher deal with it because I just don't really care about it. But she cares, understandably, and I want to keep the peace by finding a happy solution. She has been good to him and I can tell she cares even when we don't have the same tactics, so I want to keep being amenable.

[spooko]

Mar 19, 2015 15:45:20 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

Mar 19, 2015 11:52:50 GMT -5 spooko said:

Background: DS, 7.5, ADHD (impulsive, hyperactive, medicated)

Issue 1:

DS is very bright but fails to apply himself to his schoolwork or homework, and he lacks a certain inner drive that would make him want to move ahead.

This sounds very familiar. DS pretty much lacked any internal motivation to excel academically. It just was not a part of who he is. This was very frustrating for us as parents as it was completely outside the values with which we grew up. DS never self identified as a good student even though he never thought of himself as being less capable than other students.

DS has no interest in academics, with the exception of being the first to know something or some other way to lord it over other kids. He enjoys the "game" aspect of it and genuinely loves to learn, but not in the traditional school way. It needs to be where he has interest on his timing and his terms.

The teacher would like to work with him on harder stuff, but he is just slopping stuff down on his homework and being disrespectful about getting it done appropriately.

Be careful ascribing motives. This is only disrespectful if he considers screwing off disrespectful. As in "i'll show her" while twiddling his thumbs. Don't assume he believes this just because you have talked to him about it. He might not make the connection. His performance may be because he doesn't value the work, because he is conserving energy (lazy) for things he wants to do, or because he's bored.

His teacher is the one who used the word "disrespectful" in an email to me. I didn't really think he meant it that way, either, but I can see how she would at least feel that way. Rather than thinking he specifically cares enough to upset her, I believe it's quite the opposite; he can't be bothered to care at all. He literally just put squiggly lines on a problem earlier this week.

Furthermore, when he has the opportunity to work ahead in class on the iPads, he is intentionally choosing levels that are too easy for him and not making use of the programs wisely to advance.

Why is he choosing a dumbed down level? Is he anxious about getting answers wrong? Does he not want to be ahead of his peers? Does he like the predictability of lessons he's done previously? Is he lazy and not interested in doing additional work?

In speaking with him, it seems like these games have different levels and points and things to be earned. He was looking for the quickest payoff of completing them quickly or completing the most, rather than the ones that would require more work for a potentially higher payoff (both in the game points and in his actual learning). This made total sense to me after talking with him and that's when I related it to the wrestling idea. I did hear back from him that he tried the 3rd grade level today (he's in 2nd but national testing put him in the 99th percentile this past test period). He said he also attempted the 5th grade one but it was too hard. At least he went back to 3rd grade to work on instead of just deciding that 5th was too hard and quitting. I hope the lesson about which tactic is actually worth more is sinking in.

Part of my issue here is that he's not doing the homework thoroughly and neatly. The teacher is unhappy with this and wanting me to stay on top of him. On the one hand, I want to just let her deal with him. If he doesn't do it sufficiently, he should have to do it again for her. OTOH, she has worked tirelessly to have him be a successful student and since it's homework, I guess I should be doing my share and not adding more to her plate with him. I don't know how I feel about this.

There are a couple ways to approach this. Normally I am hands-off around school issues. It's his homework- he should bear the responsibility for it. But I think working together with the teacher might work. The 3 of you sit down and discuss a plan for homework. Take the vague off the table- he sounds like the sort of kid who wants to expend the least effort. The teacher should have clearly stated expectations for the work- like spelling sentences need to be at least five words long for instance. She should show him what the finished assignment should look like. 

Your role is to sit him down after school and let his life begin after the work is done. Home, toilet, snack and water- then homework.

I sat right next to him today while he did his sheet, as well as the sheet he goofed on earlier in the week. Obviously this was a really small sample of watching him, but I kind of wonder if the penmanship/neatness aspect is legitimately difficult for him and not just from him rushing and not caring. I watched him write very slowly on the last problem where he had to write a sentence and even though he took his time and was trying, it wasn't that great. I'll be keeping an eye on this over the next month before his upcoming IEP meeting at the end of April.

I had been trying to let the chips fall where they lay by having him have total responsibility for his homework, but after talking to the teacher, it seems as though the system just isn't really set up to work that way. Kind of like my whole thing with the tardy policy. Whatever, we'll work on this.

A secondary concern is her wanting to advance him. I'd love to see him stay on the brilliant trajectory he's on. But at the same time, I feel like it's been a very short time that he's even been able to moderately control himself in class and we have bigger fish to fry at this point. I can't care as much that he's not working ahead to his full potential when we have more serious issues with behavior and expectations. Half the year he hasn't even been allowed on the electronic equipment for misuse, so even if he's not excelling with it, at least he isn't in trouble? IDK what to think about this. I can't manufacture motivation in him. We've talked about it and I think I may have gotten him to look at the programs differently, but it's got to come from him. (In discussion, he told me he chooses the easier levels because then he can level up faster and beat more, because he's looking at it like an arcade game. I related it to wrestling--pinning a newbie isn't worth anything; there's a much higher value and pride to be had from fewer pins that are challenging. Unless he, personally, realigns his mind to prioritize the fewer challenges and successes over the mass quantity of wins, though, I can't do much...especially when he's at school).

Maybe it's best to work on teaching him to be a student and worry less about getting ahead academically. If he has any gifts, they're not going anywhere. While iPads can be used to supplement learning, maybe they're not the tool for him. Perhaps she could give him something like the old school SRA boxed reading activities or something more old school.

I popped in and discussed this with her today. I know she feels kind of pressured to challenge him because he is so hard to engage and he definitely has so much potential. At the same time, I do acknowledge that there are so many basic life skills that we are trying to master yet that maybe that's not where the focus needs to be right now. She was relieved that I understood that. We came to an agreement that she would keep offering the challenging opportunities and that I would understand that you can't force the horse to drink.

Issue2:

DS is the self-sabotage king. We're seeing in more and more over time. Any time something upcoming is mentioned (positive reward or negative consequence, doesn't matter), he totally blows it. No matter how no-pressure the approach is. No matter how big or small it is. No matter how much he wants it. It's just a really, really serious challenge for him. Since we've kind of realized the severity, we've stopped talking about anything upcoming. We reward him after things have gone well, but we don't talk about anything upcoming. This last week of doing so has gone much smoother than before, so it seems to be helping. But I don't know if we should be handling it that way.

There sounds like an anxiety driven behavior.

I agree. I just wonder how much we should accommodate the anxiety piece and allow him to avoid it by not talking about what's up next (which has been very successful) and how much to force him to work through it. Maybe he isn't even to the point where he can work through it at this point and it would be futile and cruel to keep setting him up for failure in this way. Maybe allowing him to avoid knowing what's coming because he freaks is coddling him.

OTOH, it's working. If it helps, I don't know that we would want to do something different. Obviously it wasn't working before to tell him what was hanging in the balance for him. OTOH, I don't know if we're artificially insulating him from real issues he's going to have to be able to deal with at some point. I mean, he can't go through his whole life sabotaging anything he knows is coming up. At some point a boss is going to say you need to do X or Y is going to happen. Or, if you can get A done by Friday, B will happen. But if this is something that we should be working with him on, I honestly don't even know where to begin. I feel like we've tried every variation of setting him up to know what's going to happen and it always goes poorly.

It's like you're in my head. You have presented the $64K Question around a capable kid- how much do you set him up to be successful so he can feel good about himself as a capable student/kid and how much do you deliberately get him out of his comfort zone knowing that's from where real growth comes. 

We were advised to look ahead to five years and focus on the skills he'll need to thrive there. For us, academically, it meant working to change his thinking about himself as a student and getting him to take more ownership of his school work. We also kept up with Cub Scouts as a values-based activity. Cub Scout Motto- Do Your Best.

This is honestly the question of my nightmares. I never know where that line is. I know my job as a parent is to prepare him for the next stage of life, but I never know what portion should be comfort and conform and how much should be shoving him in the right direction. I didn't realize that was the Scout motto, because DS doesn't really know any scouts and hasn't expressed an interest, but that's actually our own house motto. We tell him that 30 times a day lol.

I'm not sure if I explained any of this well. My mind is swimming.

[hopanka]

www.2enewsletter.com/article_2013_05_slow_processing.html

Spooko - this article may or may not give you some useful info. It talks about gifted kids with ADHD and how slower processing speed affects their executive function. It has some strategies for both school and home to help with that.

I definitely saw my own DS in some of those examples, especially when it comes to anxiety.

[funchicken]

You've gotten a lot of good advice so far. I know what you mean about struggling to decide how much to push them. My DD tested really high in reading at her last Dev pedi appt, and she basically blows away the school tests, too. She's also a very anxious kid. She's in a reading group with two other really strong readers in her class, but the work that comes home seems like it's on the easy side for her. DH and I have decided not to worry about that right now because in the past when she was pushed too hard her anxiety would ramp up. She doesn't seem like she's bored with the work, and we have a lot of leeway with the word study homework.

As far as the self-sabotage goes that sounds really anxiety-driven to me, too. I think it's okay to reward him without telling him in advance for now if it's working. I've found with DD that she needs quite a while to work through her anxiety herself, so if I tell her about something two weeks in advance she can talk herself into being calm about it, but two days in advance isn't enough time for her to work through it. If she feels like a reward/negative consequence is looming over her she fixates on what could go wrong and can't concentrate on what she needs to do.

[mrsbuttinski]

spooko
17 hours ago spooko said:
Background: DS, 7.5, ADHD (impulsive, hyperactive, medicated)

Issue 1:
DS is very bright but fails to apply himself to his schoolwork or homework, and he lacks a certain inner drive that would make him want to move ahead.

His teacher is the one who used the word "disrespectful" in an email to me. I didn't really think he meant it that way, either, but I can see how she would at least feel that way. Rather than thinking he specifically cares enough to upset her, I believe it's quite the opposite; he can't be bothered to care at all. He literally just put squiggly lines on a problem earlier this week.

So much of this sounds so familiar to me at this age. So much. I know your kid doesn't share DS's Aspergers dx, but they both have the ADHD/anxiety combo. At this age DS truly gave no fucks whatsoever about most things. I've had teachers send me some version of this note ascribing behavior that has nothing to do with them being "disrespectful". I heard exactly that word when DS took some sort of assessment in first grade. He'd connected the scantron dots to make rails and drew steam engines on them. She insisted on submitting it "as is"; he still had one of the highest results in the class. Even now he sometimes comes off as not caring; we ended up in Disability Services over a rant on a paper from last semester that was positively scathing.


In speaking with him, it seems like these games have different levels and points and things to be earned. He was looking for the quickest payoff of completing them quickly or completing the most, rather than the ones that would require more work for a potentially higher payoff (both in the game points and in his actual learning). This made total sense to me after talking with him and that's when I related it to the wrestling idea. I did hear back from him that he tried the 3rd grade level today (he's in 2nd but national testing put him in the 99th percentile this past test period). He said he also attempted the 5th grade one but it was too hard. At least he went back to 3rd grade to work on instead of just deciding that 5th was too hard and quitting. I hope the lesson about which tactic is actually worth more is sinking in.

This is positive.


I sat right next to him today while he did his sheet, as well as the sheet he goofed on earlier in the week. Obviously this was a really small sample of watching him, but I kind of wonder if the penmanship/neatness aspect is legitimately difficult for him and not just from him rushing and not caring. I watched him write very slowly on the last problem where he had to write a sentence and even though he took his time and was trying, it wasn't that great. I'll be keeping an eye on this over the next month before his upcoming IEP meeting at the end of April.

I'd pull the trigger today. Write a letter to the CST asking for an OT eval around handwriting with assistive technology and accommodations to be considered for him. If you do it now, he could potentially have services written into the IEp next month. Kids who struggle to produce written work can develop a real loathing for academics. Sometimes this crappy attitude around writing is mis-read as disrespect. Don't let that happen.

I used to carpool with a boy who sounds very like yours. He's the poster child for winning the battle/losing the war I often cite here. James is brilliant- really a bright and capable kid. He has wicked ADHD (his mom claims ring-of-fire), sensory issues (life got better when I handed him a pair of dollar store sunglasses for the ride home) and profound dysgraphia. Poor kid struggled to actually produce writing. Because he was 99th %tile on everything the teachers assumed his meager written offerings were not only disrespectful, they were a function of ODD trending into a full-blown Conduct Disorder. What helped James was differentiated handwriting instruction, access to a keyboard for all his work and the occasional opportunity to produce assignments in some other format than written.

For a kid as young as yours, an Alphasmart would be the preferred device. They're easy to use and almost bulletproof. Handwriting without Tears is a good handwriting program for kids who struggle with writing. You want to wean him from drawing his letters- it might be neater for now, but he will shut down on you as he starts to hit the wall.

www.hwtears.com/hwt

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaSmart


I popped in and discussed this with her today. I know she feels kind of pressured to challenge him because he is so hard to engage and he definitely has so much potential. At the same time, I do acknowledge that there are so many basic life skills that we are trying to master yet that maybe that's not where the focus needs to be right now. She was relieved that I understood that. We came to an agreement that she would keep offering the challenging opportunities and that I would understand that you can't force the horse to drink.

Great. However bright he is, he isn't going to thrive without mastery of the social, emotional and behavioral expectations of the garden variety 7 1/2 year old. The zero order skills are more critical than 5th grade reading. Smart doesn't go away; his gifts will be accessible once he's gotten the chance to mature a bit.

Issue2:

I agree. I just wonder how much we should accommodate the anxiety piece and allow him to avoid it by not talking about what's up next (which has been very successful) and how much to force him to work through it. Maybe he isn't even to the point where he can work through it at this point and it would be futile and cruel to keep setting him up for failure in this way. Maybe allowing him to avoid knowing what's coming because he freaks is coddling him.

The only way he'll grow around this is to work through his anxiety. He's the one who has to do the heavy lifting around this. But you can't go blazing in and work on everything at once. When we started CBT with DS, we worked on a couple issues at a time. We picked a couple things we assumed were lower stakes anxiety triggers hoping they'd resolve fairly quickly and then we could build on that success.

Maybe a course of short term CBT would be useful for him? My godchild got into a anxiety/thunder things when she was about 10. She worked with a psychologist who did about a dozen sessions with her and taught her the skills to manage her triggers going forward. She stops by for a tune up now and again. It was as useful for her as it's been for DS.

I forget, does your DS use medication as part of his tx plan?

Just putting this out there- stimulants can exacerbate anxiety in those who have it which makes the combination of ADHD and anxiety complicated. Stimulants are the gold standard for symptom control, but they can make anxiety worse which can make behavior even worse. Sometimes treating the anxiety as well is the best tactic. DS takes an SSRI and a stimulant- they complement each other really well. By addressing both, he's able to take a lower dose of each med than if he just took one.

DS's medication regimen was decided years ago, but we recently went through this with my niece who got an ADHD with anxiety back in July at the ripe old age of 34. The psychiatrist started by getting an SSRI on board at a first.


This is honestly the question of my nightmares. I never know where that line is.

The bitch is that the line moves. While skills are still emerging, they may be accessible one day and gone the next. It can be frustrating all around, but especially if teachers expect a skill to be reliably available just because they've seen it once or twice. It can be a two steps forward/one step back process.

I know my job as a parent is to prepare him for the next stage of life, but I never know what portion should be comfort and conform and how much should be shoving him in the right direction. I didn't realize that was the Scout motto, because DS doesn't really know any scouts and hasn't expressed an interest, but that's actually our own house motto. We tell him that 30 times a day lol.

Baby steps.