Usefulness of IQ score in young children

[Life is interesting]

So I had the eval through my center we've been attending since last year. We didn't have one at the beginning so this is an Interim eval but the first one here. It gave us a CARS score which I'm not familiar with and an IQ score.

You know, I live this world, I don't have mommy goggles. The Vineland I answered was almost exactly the same as the measured scales they tested/ observed. Regardless it is still difficult to see your child's difficulties on paper. It's like another blow.

To my question. I always understood IQ as more of a static measurement. The psychologist phD said that is true starting around age 5. Anyone attest to the validity of this? I need to do some reading.
DS tested below average. Not super low but given his leaps in development since dx it was still surprising, well a little. More it was hard to see it written.

So as I am droning on. Any thoughts?

[KC thepouchh8r]

Does he have any diagnoses like asd? I've read kids with asd with poor language skills can't get an accurate a read.

[Life is interesting]

Oh yes sorry. ASD dx at 22 mo he is now 33 mo. Been in 15 hours a week ABA since August.

His language skills are only 5-6 mo behind. That's still a lot at this age but the gap is closing. He only spoke 3 words at 22 mo. Now over 300!

[akafred]

Carol Dweck says it isn't true, that children can increase intelligence through belief that they can and treating the brain like a muscle, where working it out will help it grow stronger. Not sure if the impact on IQ specifically has been studied but it improves intellectual performance definitely.

In contrast, typically IQ is static between ages 6-11 with suburban children, but decreases in urban economically-challenged children.

There are some interesting theories about crossing the midline and other exercises that can help build brain synapses and connections between left and right brain. Again, not sure about IQ scores but overall performance tends to improve.

[akafred]

Oh and from 2-4? TONS of room for brain growth!

[litebright]

Ugh. That was the hardest part of DD1's initial eval for me, seeing her IQ range in the slightly-below-average range. She was three when the first eval was done and now she's seven. I guess it could still be accurate, but I doubt it. (We'll have her re-evaled eventually.)

Yes, she needs more processing time in order to answer a question -- that's the biggest thing I notice. But her reading skills are incredible, she was pulled out in kindergarten to go to a first grade reading group, and now that she's actually in first grade, she's doing above-grade-level-work in both reading and math. Her DIBELS score for reading is like three times the expected baseline at her age.

All of that is to say that I wouldn't put too much credence in IQ at very young ages -- or at least, your kid can still do wonderfully in spite of it. DD1 obviously did below-average on that testing and is doing awesome in school regardless of it. We could always hit a wall, and there are some things like comprehension vs. decoding words that are harder for her -- and there are everyday things like seeming really absentminded that can be frustrating. But as much as the social aspects are a challenge for her, it's really taken the sting out of that initial IQ number to see how well she does academically.

[anintrovert]

At 3yr 10 mo DS tested as low average during cognitive testing. The diagnosing psych told me that it was an accurate picture of where he was at the time but not predictive. A few months later using a different scale during a study he tested average.

Just after 6 as a part of his triennial review he's solidly average according to the WISC. There is a large discrepancy between parts of the test though he scored in the 66th percentile for verbal comprehension but in the 13th for processing speed. My understanding is that large a discrepancies are common with an ASD Dx.

ETA there's also a large gap between IQ and functioning as measured by the ABAS and BASC he scored pretty low on those.

[fancynewbeesly]

One of my close friends is a school psychologist, and she administers IQ tests. She said that even though you can give an IQ test to children over three; due to the range of verbal skills at that age--it isn't a true measure. She said the more accurate measure is after 6 years old, where most children's verbal skills are developed by then. Plus around 3-5, you have more behavioral aspects skewing results (not sitting still, lack of focus, etc)

[mrsbuttinski]

His score could have been repressed by delayed language development- not just expressive language, but also receptive language around different kinds of expressions, and auditory processing (auditory memory can factor into these kinds of tests since they're read to the test subject). Plus any IQ number really represents a range of numbers- much as a EDD/EDC is a 4 week window in which a baby is due.

A non-language based test like the Ravens Matrices can take the language piece off the table, but it isn't as great a predictor of future academic performance.

I'd not focus on this for now and revisit an IQ closer to kindie if you feel the need. Better even, to wait until he can sit WISC since the subset scores associated seem more useful for academic planning.

[KC thepouchh8r]

Mar 20, 2015 20:07:02 GMT -5 Life is interesting said:

Oh yes sorry. ASD dx at 22 mo he is now 33 mo. Been in 15 hours a week ABA since August.

His language skills are only 5-6 mo behind. That's still a lot at this age but the gap is closing. He only spoke 3 words at 22 mo. Now over 300!

Yeah I would go ahead and throw that out the window. For some reason I was reading your kid as five. At not even three it's fairly unreliable. When your kid is six I may take the test a little more seriously (albeit knowing it has some flaws in measuring kids with asd).

[hopecounts]

DD's DP advises against doing IQ testing before 5 for this reason.
In her opinion it is rarely useful and is often unreliable/inaccurate/incomplete so no point to it.
She also (in our area) sees it leading to unreasonably lowered expectations so doesn't like to risk a kid being pigeon holed during the early years.
She prefers to wait until around 6 when language skills and IQ are more developed allowing a clearer picture of where the kid is at.

[hopecounts]

Just realized I have a perfect example of why IQ at this age isn't reliable.
When DD started ABA at 3 they tested her on VB-Mapp she tested 18 months or lower across the board.
This year at 4 when it was rerun for her entry to her new school she tested age appropriate in the cognitive areas.
We hadn't worked on those at all with ABA because she hadn't reached that level.
What changed was her ability to express what she knows/follow instructions/stay on task which allowed her to demonstrate her knowledge.

[bigpoppa22]

I WOULD put credence into the IQ test at that age and into how predictive it is of the future - but in a positive way. Language delays depress verbal IQ scores and since the majority of children overcome communication problems to some degree, IQ scores will increase as they do. Additionally, a recent study shows that the verbal and nonverbal IQs in toddlers with ASD can be predictive of adult intelligence.

IQ scores of 70 are really the dividing line, especially on the nonverbal score. Take a look at the study and pay attention to the graphs:
sfari.org/news-and-opinion/news/2014/early-tests-predict-intellect-in-adults-with-autism

The children with nonverbal scores of 70+ made great strides through age 19. It doesn't give exact numbers but my visual estimation is that the verbal IQs go up by 50-55 and the nonverbal IQs go up by 20-25. That is extremely encouraging! If your child is a little below average but not severely, it would not be unrealistic to hold onto hope that with therapy, he will be average or above average as an adult, once he is all caught up.

[mrsbuttinski]

Mar 23, 2015 16:01:58 GMT -5 Jesslfar said:

We just saw a new DP this week and his suggestion is that testing be done after age 10. Before that IQ testing is not a good measure of where they will be as adults (unless they are in the really low category). He said they will do it between 5-10, but it is not as accurate. My child is 7 and we had some very minimal testing done when she was diagnosed (ASD) as a preschooler, but have elected to hold off because we wanted it to be as accurate as possible. He said it would be useful at her age if we wanted more services from the state or county and thought she might test lower, but otherwise it is not accurate enough for them to suggest doing it before 10.

It depends on what you need the testing for. 

If it's to establish average + IQ to make sure elementary curriculum is grade level appropriate or to establish a specific LD apart from lower IQ, it can be some of the most important testing done.

DS's IQ was done for transition to private kindie (WPPSI), WISC at 7 1/2 to transition to private reading lab school, WISC bridging to public school at 10 and again transitioning to middle school. Aside from WPPSI- which he rocked, his scores have been remarkably static. He's taken WISC as a pre-reader and reader; on medication for anxiety and attention and unmedicated; with a psychologist who "got" him and with two strangers who were pretty clueless. The scores were statistically identical.

[bubbalicious]

DD had IQ at 4 and 5. The benefit for her at 4 is we knew Intellectual disability was off the table. And at 5, we are using the difference between verbal and nonverbal to show (along with oodles of other data, that dd has dyslexia (school won't write or even say the word...the just talk about inconsistencies in IQ).

There are benefits to testing before age 5...tool in advocating.

[mack]

At our DP eval last week, they did some intelligence testing. They wouldn't pinpoint down a number, and only gave an estimate. I think that at her age (5.5) they really just want to rule out cognitive impairment or intellectual disability. When they talked about their findings with me, they talked about her intelligence in broad terms and a range of where they thought she would fall, but it sounded like their basis was really to get a general picture, not a specific number.

[KC thepouchh8r]

Mar 24, 2015 14:35:19 GMT -5 mack said:

At our DP eval last week, they did some intelligence testing. They wouldn't pinpoint down a number, and only gave an estimate. I think that at her age (5.5) they really just want to rule out cognitive impairment or intellectual disability. When they talked about their findings with me, they talked about her intelligence in broad terms and a range of where they thought she would fall, but it sounded like their basis was really to get a general picture, not a specific number.

This was my experience as well.

[macchiatto]

Ditto pp's that it's not as reliable at this age.
I'm also skeptical about my son (with SN)'s IQ score from a year ago (when he had just turned 5); I really believe his IQ must be a good ~20 points higher. I understand that it's hard to see those scores in writing. At your child's age, I would take it with a large grain of salt.