ODD or early onset bipolar

[kmc2]

Anyone have any experience or knowledge about either ODD or early onset bipolar disorder? I'm not familiar with either of these so I've been trying to do some research, but just want to know what you guys have to say about it. I'm being told DS very likely will be diagnosed with one of these, but I thought that was a little strange because he's still so young. He's only 4. I'm not in denial of it being a strong possibility because he fits the descriptions of these things based off what I know of them so far, the family history is there, so on so forth. I guess I am upset by it though, but I don't really know why. I make no sense whatsoever lol A new child mental health specialist is coming out next week to see him so I guess we'll see what happens.

[theycallmemommy]

My DH and his grandfather have bipolar. His grandfather passed about 10 years ago but I knew him for a while before that. Honestly I have been told that bipolar disorder is not considered until a child is much older. However my dh showed signs as a child by getting into fights and being unafraid of taking risks. This is funny because he is not like that now. He has anxiety too.

I am not sure how hard and fast this rule is but has anyone explained that there is a path that bipolar usually takes? So it goes like this in theory: affected father passes it to his daughter who usually shows no signs but then passes it to a son and then he passes to a daughter and she may or may not show signs etc.

So our ds will probably not show signs of bipolar. Our dd might and if she has a son, there's a higher chance.

This is similar to color blindness which my father has and I don't but we confirmed with ds' s eye for doctor that he is indeed color blind.

Hope this helps some. It's not a guarantee but seems to be following the predicted path in our family. In fact color blindness and bipolar were the two things that dh and I discussed being possible for our kids. Asd was not on the radar. Ds is still waiting for his official evaluation. We have an appointment in may. He has had speech since 2, vision therapy and Ot since 3 and he is 4.5 years old. We waited for the picture to become more clear

[leroybrown]

Along with ADHD and SPD, DD (4.5yo) was thought to have ODD. I'm not convinced, but doing this research about ODD, SPD, ADHD has led me to possible autism.

For example: ODD says she's deliberately annoying people. Is it deliberate or does she not read social cues to know that she's annoying people?
Short temper/tantrums: Because she can't handle the change or because she's defying you out of spite?

At 4.5, I'm hardpressed to say she's spiteful and angry and vindictive.

[hopecounts]

My BFF had ODD. We didn't become friends until late elementary school so am not sure of the particulars of when/how she was diagnosed.
She is doing very well now (is a Derm CRNP, in a committed relationship, and so on) but it was a big hurdle for a lot of her childhood, particularly during Middle School.
It also pretty seriously damaged her relationship with her sister though she is making in roads on repairing that now.
A lot of that came from her Parents not taking the diagnosis seriously and continuing to parent her in a way that fed into her challenges because it was easier.
She also has no verbal filter and can be a bit careless with social cues (not oblivious just doesn't necessarily care/think before acting or speaking though again that has somewhat improved with maturity.)

[mcribster]

I would look at other factors in your child. What behaviors are you seeing? Are they daily events or is there a trigger (worse in a certain house/school or after a certain meal? a pattern of every 8 days/3 weeks, etc). Have you run basic blood work to see if there are markers showing possible infection (c-reactive protein/neutrophils/lymphocytes,etc?)
I would also read up on PANS/PANDAS and autoimmune encephalopathy.
My DD is only 3.5 she can rage in a way that is frightening. We are looking at KPU and she does have an infection called bartonella which can cause rage and is common with PANDAS kids: www.vitalityandwellness.com.au/pyroluria
there is some basic info. It is an imbalance in copper/zinc/B-6/magnesuim levels in the body
It could also be related to food. this is an oldie but a goodie on food reactions in children: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRDpcWZUEiU gotta love donahue ! these kids would meet ODD/bipolar criteria too.

[kmc2]

Thanks, I appreciate your response to this. Its very interesting to me the way you described the path it takes because my dad has bipolar and I'm honestly not too sure that I don't have it myself. I'll be seeing a new counselor and psychiatrist soon so I will bring it up to them. I've had 2 psychiatrists tell me before that I've had it and I chose to blow them off because I refused to accept it was true at the time. So it would make sense for my DS to have it. I did read about it skipping a generation too. Then there's my DH and his side of the family who also have a ton of neurological issues/mental illness present in their family.

[kmc2]

I'm sorry what I last wrote was meant for theycallmemommy.

[kmc2]

Leroybrown, I feel the same. At 4.5 years, I feel like its tough to say. At the same time, I do not want to be like the parents of hopecounts friend who dismissed her diagnosis. Although it is great to hear that she's doing well even after all her struggles. I just want to make sure I'm doing everything I can to help DS but at the same time I dont want things blown out of proportion to where he's still so young.

[kmc2]

Mcribster we haven't had any basic blood work done to test for that stuff. I think I need to do a lot more research into the things you mentioned. Thank you for sending me some links so I have a place to start!

[akafred]

The Scrote-cat gag is killing yours truly in this thread.

Something we are watching for DD as well. It feels less ODD to me and more sensory, mood swings, social skills, anxiety. A friend has a daughter who has always reminded both of us of Char (or vice versa as C is younger) who at 11 was just dx with BPD. OTOH Char has more inherent empathy and desire to please (albeit not ABILITY a to please) than this girl. She never seemed to give a rat's how her actions impacted others.

[akafred]

"Mr. Bigglesworth's uglier brother from another mother" = OMG! Meant to say "I".

[akafred]

How did "I" not say I?

[akafred]

Lmao

[mamaturtle]

akafred I wanted to heart you because your post was funny. I really want to know your position/experience.

[hopecounts]

Apr 1, 2015 13:30:49 GMT -5 akafred said:

How did "I" not say I?

I think it's an April Fools from the TCF directors.

[akafred]

Apr 1, 2015 13:42:37 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

Apr 1, 2015 13:30:49 GMT -5 akafred said:

How did "I" not say I?

I think it's an April Fools from the TCF directors.

Yeah, they did good. They made I say scrotecat and then made scrotecat say Mr. Biggles etc so if people posted there would be more hilarity. I kind of love it.

[akafred]

Apr 1, 2015 13:39:45 GMT -5 mamaturtle said:

akafred I wanted to heart you because your post was funny. I really want to know your position/experience.

Just what I said. We are also watching for DD, particularly BPD. The mood swings kind of fit, and the attraction to things that are taboo. However I could be wrong but it doesn't "feel" ODD to me. She doesn't annoy to be annoying; she annoys because she has trouble controlling her body or because she thinks she'll get her way or because she misreads social cues and thinks something is funny.

[mamaturtle]

Apr 1, 2015 11:02:42 GMT -5 theycallmemommy said:

My DH and his grandfather have bipolar. His grandfather passed about 10 years ago but I knew him for a while before that. Honestly I have been told that bipolar disorder is not considered until a child is much older. However my dh showed signs as a child by getting into fights and being unafraid of taking risks. This is funny because he is not like that now. He has anxiety too.

I am not sure how hard and fast this rule is but has anyone explained that there is a path that bipolar usually takes? So it goes like this in theory: affected father passes it to his daughter who usually shows no signs but then passes it to a son and then he passes to a daughter and she may or may not show signs etc.

So our ds will probably not show signs of bipolar. Our dd might and if she has a son, there's a higher chance.

This is similar to color blindness which my father has and I don't but we confirmed with ds' s eye for doctor that he is indeed color blind.

Hope this helps some. It's not a guarantee but seems to be following the predicted path in our family. In fact color blindness and bipolar were the two things that dh and I discussed being possible for our kids. Asd was not on the radar. Ds is still waiting for his official evaluation. We have an appointment in may. He has had speech since 2, vision therapy and Ot since 3 and he is 4.5 years old. We waited for the picture to become more clear

My sister was diagnosed as a teen with bipolar and then later with anxiety.

She sounded much like theycallmemommy's DH's childhood. Always getting into fights with her friends. Her childhood life was like a soap. She was a risk taker, too. And she was so outspoken also.

[mrsbuttinski]

There a strong streak of bipolar in my dad's family.

It has not skipped any generations since my great-grandfather. In some cases those with bipolar clearly had a parent with it; in some instances they did not. My great-grandfather, my grandfather and his brother, my father's sister, my sister, my younger niece, one of my cousins and at least two of kids have it to varying degrees.

My sister also had ADHD; ODD was hinted at. In talking with DS's psych he feels she may have been more Borderline. I guess it doesn't matter, she carried the bipolar dx as an adult.

I don't doubt that there were red flags for my sister's bipolar from preschool on, but I don't think they were elevated to the level of a dx until around puberty. Her younger DD followed a similar pattern where the behaviors escalated as she approached puberty. Her children are being watched closely by their parents for signs. So far her son does trend toward dysregulation but not quite as intensely. He's also drug exposed, so it's hard to drill down the antecedent.

If either of those dxs was suggested for my child, I would absolutely get a second opinion from the best child psych at the best pediatric hospital around. Because of the stigma, I would probably pursue this privately. ODD is considered a behavior disorder; Bipolar is a mood disorder/mental illness. Both can subject a child to an Emotionally/Behaviorally Disordered self contained placement in some schools which may not be the appropriate setting for the student.

I'd also want to R/O other conditions. I have seen kids with depression, ASD and even dysgraphia written off as ODD by school psychologists.