What would you do with these family names?

[manada]

My partner has a strong preference for a gender-ambiguous name, as her first name is an grandmother's maiden name and she always liked that.   Our first two daughters - who were born prematurely and passed away, were given gender neutral first names (that are legit names, and NOT just boy names we gave to girls) with gendered, family middle names (Sara and Elizabeth).     I know gender-neutral naming doesn't get a ton of love around here, and we may flex a bit on that for our rainbow babies - but we are also looking for something that doesn't look like it's out of place as a sibset.


I'd love to come up with a name that honours family, but my extended family has fairly run of the mill, common names (or very old names). What names might you sub in to honour these family names, or would you use them at all?

Female Names:
- Phyllis  
- Iola Jean
- Jennie   (I have a cousin who already named his daughter a version of a name that starts with Jen....)
- Kathleen  (my mom's name and great-grandmother's name, also my partner's aunt's name, don't want to do a direct naming after)
- Marguerite
- Jan  

Male Names:
- Paul
- Leslie
- Laurence
- Douglas
- David
- John (Jack)
- Shannon (I love love love this as a boy's name, but my SO isn't a fan, and I don't like it as a girl's name...)

[MauiBliss]

Ok, so I am clear, you're not really a fan of the family names and are looking for things similar? Or related? I don't think subbing a name really honors a person, so I'd use the actual name or not worry about honoring. From the names you've listed, I like Iola and Marguerite. For boys, I like Leslie and Laurence. I love Shannon on a boy, too. If you like that kind of vein, you have the Leslie option. Also, Aubrey, Loren and Kelly are great boy's names.

This LO is going to be Loren, so I'm partial to it.

[dreadpiratebuttercup]

Seriously? I typed out a whole list and it doesn't even post...

Will redo later!

[dreadpiratebuttercup]

Iola Jean- I like this one. I would like Iona even more.
Jennie- Replace with Genevieve or Guinevere (Jennifer is the Cornish variant). Or Ginevra.
Kathleen- Replace with Catherine or Catriona.
Marguerite- Love. Maybe sub Margot?
Jan- Replace with Jane.

Paul- It's ok. I prefer Saul.
Leslie- Definitely prefer seeing it in a boy, but I like Kelly, Cary, or Loren. Maybe Francis?
Douglas- Like.
David- Like.
John (Jack)- Like, though I'm meh on Jack. Definitely love that it's a NN though. Maybe Ivan?
Shannon- Definitely happy it's for a boy. Though I prefer Seamus. Maybe Shea or Sidney?

[kellybenelly83]

+1 on Iona
Lauren?
I like David
Maybe Katie/Leena for Kathleen

[billyhorrible]

Let me get this out of the way first - I love Iola (girl) and Shannon (boy) so if it were me, I'd just use them.

That being said, I agree with mauibliss- if you're looking to honor someone, I would just use the name as is. If I'm reading correctly, family names are for the middle name spot anyway? So you don't need to be as concerned about loving the name up and down.

[manada]

Thanks peeps.  

Clarification:  With our first two we put family names in the M.N. spot  - because they worked there, and when we were coming up with their first names we also imagined them with the middle names we'd use.   With our rainbow, we will probably put them in the MN spot, because most of the family names we have are a bit gawd-awful IMO -- but I was hoping someone had some brilliant ideas for ways to play with them and either sub in an accepted nickname for one of the names, or something that sounds or means the same thing.   (And thanks to those of you who made suggestions!  I'll take them to the table for consideration....)

I hear the feedback though, if it's not the same name, it's just not the same as naming them after the person... fair fair.  

@mauibliss -- Loren is one of my top, all-time favs currently, but my partner has steadfastly veto'd it without and reconsideration.   I add it to my list of "potential" names every few months, and she shoots me down every time!  


I'm shocked the love that people have for Iola though --I can totally see Phyllis being adorable on a 3 year old, but Iola?   Y'all are welcome to it.   

(And I tried to sell "Phyllis" to my DP as a girl's first name option, but was shot down because it would make such a terrible sibset with the names we already named our lost twins) - BAH!

[ryn]

Jan 20, 2015 15:51:33 GMT -5 manada said:

Female Names:
- Phyllis  
- Iola Jean
- Jennie   (I have a cousin who already named his daughter a version of a name that starts with Jen....)
- Kathleen  (my mom's name and great-grandmother's name, also my partner's aunt's name, don't want to do a direct naming after)
- Marguerite
- Jan  

Male Names:
- Paul
- Leslie
- Laurence
- Douglas
- David
- John (Jack)
- Shannon (I love love love this as a boy's name, but my SO isn't a fan, and I don't like it as a girl's name...)

Jeen - Play between Jean and Kathleen, but could also be seen as a varient of Eugene.... makes for a pretty ambiguous name. 

January - a little feminine, but would be acceptable for either.

Leslie is already pretty neutral and works as feminine and masculine. 

Paulie is neutral. 

Marguerite can be shortened to Guerite and pronounced Garrett for something a bit more masculine than the very feminine form of Margaret. 

A chunk of those names (Jean, Jan, John, Jack) mean "god is gracious" - you could play off of that and just choose another name with the same meaning. Shawn/Sean, Ivan/Ivana, Zane, Evan, and Cheyne all share that meaning.

[ryn]

(I also discourage Phyllis, honestly, because while they can go with Phyllis or Phyl, there is too much potential for cruel middle school kids to use "Syphilis" as a teasing tool)

[dreadpiratebuttercup]

Jan 21, 2015 21:47:45 GMT -5 ryn said:

Jan 20, 2015 15:51:33 GMT -5 manada said:

Female Names:
- Phyllis  
- Iola Jean
- Jennie   (I have a cousin who already named his daughter a version of a name that starts with Jen....)
- Kathleen  (my mom's name and great-grandmother's name, also my partner's aunt's name, don't want to do a direct naming after)
- Marguerite
- Jan  

Male Names:
- Paul
- Leslie
- Laurence
- Douglas
- David
- John (Jack)
- Shannon (I love love love this as a boy's name, but my SO isn't a fan, and I don't like it as a girl's name...)

Jeen - Play between Jean and Kathleen, but could also be seen as a varient of Eugene.... makes for a pretty ambiguous name. 

January - a little feminine, but would be acceptable for either.

Leslie is already pretty neutral and works as feminine and masculine. 

Paulie is neutral. 

Marguerite can be shortened to Guerite and pronounced Garrett for something a bit more masculine than the very feminine form of Margaret. 

A chunk of those names (Jean, Jan, John, Jack) mean "god is gracious" - you could play off of that and just choose another name with the same meaning. Shawn/Sean, Ivan/Ivana, Zane, Evan, and Cheyne all share that meaning.

Um wtf to almost all of this...

[kellybenelly83]

Jan 21, 2015 21:47:45 GMT -5 ryn said:

Jan 20, 2015 15:51:33 GMT -5 manada said:

Female Names:
- Phyllis  
- Iola Jean
- Jennie   (I have a cousin who already named his daughter a version of a name that starts with Jen....)
- Kathleen  (my mom's name and great-grandmother's name, also my partner's aunt's name, don't want to do a direct naming after)
- Marguerite
- Jan  

Male Names:
- Paul
- Leslie
- Laurence
- Douglas
- David
- John (Jack)
- Shannon (I love love love this as a boy's name, but my SO isn't a fan, and I don't like it as a girl's name...)

Jeen - Play between Jean and Kathleen, but could also be seen as a varient of Eugene.... makes for a pretty ambiguous name. 

January - a little feminine, but would be acceptable for either.

Leslie is already pretty neutral and works as feminine and masculine. 

Paulie is neutral. 

Marguerite can be shortened to Guerite and pronounced Garrett for something a bit more masculine than the very feminine form of Margaret. 

A chunk of those names (Jean, Jan, John, Jack) mean "god is gracious" - you could play off of that and just choose another name with the same meaning. Shawn/Sean, Ivan/Ivana, Zane, Evan, and Cheyne all share that meaning.

Eugene is masculine, not "ambiguous" its definately a boys name. Eugenia is girls.
January is not a name, its a month
Margeurite means daisy in English. Geurite is terrible

[estrellas]

Jan 21, 2015 21:47:45 GMT -5 ryn said:

Jan 20, 2015 15:51:33 GMT -5 manada said:

Jeen - Play between Jean and Kathleen, but could also be seen as a varient of Eugene.... makes for a pretty ambiguous name. 

January - a little feminine, but would be acceptable for either.

Leslie is already pretty neutral and works as feminine and masculine. 

Paulie is neutral. 

Marguerite can be shortened to Guerite and pronounced Garrett for something a bit more masculine than the very feminine form of Margaret. 

A chunk of those names (Jean, Jan, John, Jack) mean "god is gracious" - you could play off of that and just choose another name with the same meaning. Shawn/Sean, Ivan/Ivana, Zane, Evan, and Cheyne all share that meaning.

No. Just... no. "Jeen" is not a name, it's a misspelling of something. And it's certainly ambiguous. Someone named "Jeen" would be correcting spelling all of the time - they'd get "Jean" or "Gene". 

"Guerite pronounced Garrett" would be as painful and terrible, if not worse. Anyone with even a week of French class behind them - let alone a child who interacts with French speakers - would fight with this. It's not even remotely an intuitive similar pronunciation, and they'd fight with it. "Guerite" also loses the meaning of "daisy" in French, and the significance behind it. No, no, no. 

... And now I'm genuinely curious. When did "Cheyne" become a name? How is it pronounced - "chain"? "chine?" "shine"? I have never seen that name before, so I have no knowledge of it at all.

[estrellas]

Jan 20, 2015 15:51:33 GMT -5 manada said:

My partner has a strong preference for a gender-ambiguous name, as her first name is an grandmother's maiden name and she always liked that.   Our first two daughters - who were born prematurely and passed away, were given gender neutral first names (that are legit names, and NOT just boy names we gave to girls) with gendered, family middle names (Sara and Elizabeth).     I know gender-neutral naming doesn't get a ton of love around here, and we may flex a bit on that for our rainbow babies - but we are also looking for something that doesn't look like it's out of place as a sibset.


I'd love to come up with a name that honours family, but my extended family has fairly run of the mill, common names (or very old names). What names might you sub in to honour these family names, or would you use them at all?

Female Names:
- Phyllis  
- Iola Jean
- Jennie   (I have a cousin who already named his daughter a version of a name that starts with Jen....)
- Kathleen  (my mom's name and great-grandmother's name, also my partner's aunt's name, don't want to do a direct naming after)
- Marguerite
- Jan  

Male Names:
- Paul
- Leslie
- Laurence
- Douglas
- David
- John (Jack)
- Shannon (I love love love this as a boy's name, but my SO isn't a fan, and I don't like it as a girl's name...)

For family names, I say use as-is. Otherwise something "similar" doesn't honor someone, IMO.

I like Iola, Kathleen and Marguerite. I can't stand Phyllis, Jennie with an -ie, and Jan is way too gender-neutral for my tastes, but I have a very gender-neutral name and I hate the neutrality issue. Too many "Dear Mr" 's.

Male names - Paul, Laurence, David, John/Jack, and Shannon. Not fond of Leslie or Douglas.

My in-laws use a family member's maiden name as a middle name - a great(?) grandmother's surname, Marlowe. My sister-in-law loves that part of her name and I've debated using it as a MN if this next kid is a girl or boy.

[ryn]

I did not suggest Eugene. I suggested Jeen, as a name that could be seen as masculine (such as Eugene) or feminine (such as Jeanette). The entire point of suggesting an ambiguous name is that the OP said their partner wants an ambiguous name.

January is a form of Janus, which happens to have also been applied to a month. It is the name of a god.

Guérite is a legitimate name, meaning turret or shelter - a change in meaning does not prevent it from being a name... Changing Marguerite to Margaret changes it from daisy to pearl... it doesn't make Margaret suddenly not a name.

Cheyne has been a surname since the 14th century, in Ireland. Surnames being used as first names has been "a thing" for a very long time... it has the same history as the name "Shane", and comes from the same region... they all began as Mc/Mac Shane/Cheyne/Shaine/Cheine/etc, and eventually variants of the name were having the Mc/Mac dropped and utilized as first names.

The idea that names cannot be modified or taken from other words is ignorant. Where do people think names come from??? "Douglas" literally means "dark water"... "Marguerite" means daisy. Names aren't just sounds. They have roots. Never having seen a name before does not diminish its value.

[dreadpiratebuttercup]

Jeen is not a name. It is a misspelling.

January Jones wears her name well, but the average person cannot pull it off.

Guerite is not a name. It's a word. There's a difference.

Cheyne has no history of use as a fn. And Shane isn't even a good name.

Names have history of use as names. You don't just take a random word and make it a name. Unless you want to name your next kid Table?

FFS...

[ryn]

These are all names, and have been for a very long time, whether you want them to be names or not.

Jeen

January

Guerite

Cheyne

[kellybenelly83]

That doesnt change the fact that they are terrible....
Guerite is really one of the worst I have heard in a while.
I like Shane, spelled like SHANE.

[ryn]

It is totally fine to have your preferences. I prefer Kelly spelled like the traditional Gaelic surname it was taken from, Ceallaigh.

[kellybenelly83]

lol ok SS, enjoy your time here with your Yoo-neek spelling.

[estrellas]

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

[billyhorrible]

Jan 22, 2015 15:06:16 GMT -5 ryn said:

These are all names, and have been for a very long time, whether you want them to be names or not.

Jeen

January

Guerite

Cheyne

Have you actually looked at the links you've cited? Or have any clue about the history of education or immigration?

Half of the "Jeens" and "Cheynes" weren't born in this country and are from the turn of the century, meaning the spellings were dictated by a 19 year old "immigration officer" at Ellis Island.  Many of the names are likewise from a times and places where education only lasted as long as the harvest season was in fallow.  Are we using the illiterate as a justification for names now?

[helenahhandbasket]

Jan 20, 2015 15:51:33 GMT -5 manada said:

My partner has a strong preference for a gender-ambiguous name, as her first name is an grandmother's maiden name and she always liked that.   Our first two daughters - who were born prematurely and passed away, were given gender neutral first names (that are legit names, and NOT just boy names we gave to girls) with gendered, family middle names (Sara and Elizabeth).     I know gender-neutral naming doesn't get a ton of love around here, and we may flex a bit on that for our rainbow babies - but we are also looking for something that doesn't look like it's out of place as a sibset.


I'd love to come up with a name that honours family, but my extended family has fairly run of the mill, common names (or very old names). What names might you sub in to honour these family names, or would you use them at all?

Female Names:
- Phyllis  
- Iola Jean
- Jennie   (I have a cousin who already named his daughter a version of a name that starts with Jen....)
- Kathleen  (my mom's name and great-grandmother's name, also my partner's aunt's name, don't want to do a direct naming after)
- Marguerite
- Jan  

Male Names:
- Paul
- Leslie
- Laurence
- Douglas
- David
- John (Jack)
- Shannon (I love love love this as a boy's name, but my SO isn't a fan, and I don't like it as a girl's name...)

Edit-- quote fail.

I am also not sure exactly what you are asking, but I am so sorry for your loss.

I want to say I also like Shannon for a boy very much, but if your partner does not-- you have to take it off the table. Maybe suggest Shay/ Shea?

For a girl, seems like you are both most connected to Kathleen, but not sure how that could translate into something neutral. Kit maybe? Although that seems so nicknamey.

[helenahhandbasket]

Jan 21, 2015 16:25:58 GMT -5 manada said:

Thanks peeps.  

Clarification:  With our first two we put family names in the M.N. spot  - because they worked there, and when we were coming up with their first names we also imagined them with the middle names we'd use.   With our rainbow, we will probably put them in the MN spot, because most of the family names we have are a bit gawd-awful IMO -- but I was hoping someone had some brilliant ideas for ways to play with them and either sub in an accepted nickname for one of the names, or something that sounds or means the same thing.   (And thanks to those of you who made suggestions!  I'll take them to the table for consideration....)

I hear the feedback though, if it's not the same name, it's just not the same as naming them after the person... fair fair.  

@mauibliss -- Loren is one of my top, all-time favs currently, but my partner has steadfastly veto'd it without and reconsideration.   I add it to my list of "potential" names every few months, and she shoots me down every time!  


I'm shocked the love that people have for Iola though --I can totally see Phyllis being adorable on a 3 year old, but Iola?   Y'all are welcome to it.   

(And I tried to sell "Phyllis" to my DP as a girl's first name option, but was shot down because it would make such a terrible sibset with the names we already named our lost twins) - BAH!

What about Ione? It's a feminine name, but might work becuase it's fairly unusual.

[rachel]

I like Iola, Kathleen and Marguerite.

What about Philippa in exchange for Phyllis?

I think these would all be nice middle names for a girl with a gender neutral first name.