Seeking Known Donor feedback/advice

[channe9]

I've been lurking since the changeover. Just posted more about me & wife in the new intros thread. Here goes...

Wife and I have been TTC since January 2014. We each want to carry but I will go first. We've been regrouping since January. We considered trying at home with a known donor and contacted a lovely gay couple. (More about this below!) We've since had tests done that suggested that I should go straight to IVF. 

That brings us to the current donor conundrum: We can choose ANY donor (anonymous, non-anonymous, known) option as any child born in the UK to my wife and I will automatically have wife's name on the birth certificate. Using a known donor is legally not scary but, of course, still emotionally scary. 

The potential donor: one half of the couple (A) wants to donate -- in fact, A really wants children. The other half (B) is very clear that he does NOT want children. Thus, A & B have decided that their compromise would be that A becomes a donor. So we've discussed that we don't know HOW the relationship between A and future kid might evolve but that we would like A (and B by default...) to be in the kid's life. We are all agreed on this.

Wife and I also said that we would like to have the same donor for the child that wife will carry. B has since said that he feels uncomfortable with an implied commitment to a second child as we don't know what will happen. But that, if things go well, he's sure that A wouldn't mind donating again.

This last bit has made us question how to move forward. Obviously every situation is different but I'm wondering what you think, especially those who may have negotiated the known donor process before.  

Should we go forward with A donating knowing that something could happen, that wife and I might not be able to create a family the way we had imagined? There are lots of reasons why we may not be able to do this (fertility, change in life circumstances, etc.) but do we start with this possibility? We went for this option initially because our local health service was proposing this exact option -- one child with health service donor and second child TBD. Maybe we should just go back to the less scary (for now) but more "safe" option of non-anonymous donor sperm from a bank? Eek. Why must this be such a minefield... What do you think? 


IF YOU HAVE READ THIS FAR, MY APOLOGIES FOR THE LENGTH AND THANKS! 

EDIT: I do NOT mean to imply that non-anonymous donor sperm is or will be "scary" -- just that we couldn't answer a kid's questions growing up in the ways that we had hoped... 

[megd893]

Hey there channe9 - I remember you

So, after reading everything, it SOUNDS like you'd prefer to go the KD route. Is that the case? If you'd prefer to lean this way, I can see why you're stuck. We wanted our kids to have the bio connection as well, so having someone "available" in the future was important. Would you consider looking into another KD? Someone who's partner is maybe more on board? If using a KD is really important because of the relationship you'd like to see evolve, then maybe you do need to take the risk. If you're not really set on the KD route, maybe removing some of the obstacles will enable you to focus on you and your wife and not worry?
We were offered two known donors, but when we imagined our family, we ended up going the UD route. It removed a lot of complications for us, and while more expensive (I imagine) we know that we have his stuff sitting in storage for baby #2 (& #3?).
I know there are successful KD pregnancies on the board. Hopefully they'll chime in for you too!

[Stringy]

We did not use a KD - but I know I have seen other threads about it and people recommend working with a lawyer and drawing up a contract to be sure all involved parties are on the same page. Are A and B married or as committed as they could be? Or is there a possibility they won't be together down the road? What if they break up and A decides he wants to be more than the role you describe now to his offspring? I don't know the legal ramifications but I would want to cover all the bases.

Some other thoughts. A could donate and have sperm frozen so it is available at a bank in the future, even if someone moves or isn't available down the road. Also, do both A and B know of the committment it will take to provide fresh samples for potentially many months? ie. meeting you at a clinic without a whole lot of notice as to when it will be. Maybe, since you are working with a clinic, they would be able to freeze some samples, or some embryos, for future use to make that less disruptive to their life.

[karlamo]

Welcome.

I think @ stringy read my mind. We vetted a KD for 2 years before realizing we could never make it work. The 3 of us had different comfort levels and expectations of how we would do this.

The big thing that jumped out at me were the couple not being on the same page for wanting to donate/children. While this isn't your issue per say, I'd be worried they would separate over this.

Depending on what you're looking for in a donor, I'd be concerned that A would want to father the child in some fashion. I know in the U.S., parental rights are not terminated till after the child is born no matter what documents you draw up before hand. I would be wary of A refusing to sign over his legal rights.
I know a family that doesn't mind co parenting with their donor. It's just isn't for me.

Some ideas:

Have A and B see a therapist to talk about this major life decision. We had our KD do this and low and behold he realized yes he would want an active role in the child's life. Complete with his family meeting the child.

Can you find another donor who doesn't have these same issues?

[ionaerebor]

Welcome!

A and I used a KD, one of her cousins, but we also had lots of testing and screening done on the sperm before we used it, and we also have 20 vials or so left over.

Anyway, my thoughts on this are; I would probably not use a donor that really wanted kids and weren't able to have any with their partner because they would possibly decide they wanted to be a father in the child's life. I believe, that in Scotland and you are going to have IVF, that the parentage of the child is determined before its born, so he would have no right to the child, and it wouldn't fly at court, but I know that in other parts of the UK, that law might be different.

If I were you, I'd be much more likely to try and find another KD, one that just wanted to be a donor. I would second karlamo's idea to see if you can have the donor and their partner go see a therapist, but I know the NHS are a bit funny about sending people to therapists, and they are expensive on private, I believe.

[megd893]

Jumping back in to note that Stringy and karlamo both have a point about legalities.
Here in Canada with an unknown, and because we're married when we conceived K immediately goes on his birth certificate. However, there have been Canadian cases where legal documents were signed PRIOR to insemination, and when baby was born the donor retracted and was able to fight for AND WIN rights to 'his child'.

[RM80]

Welcome back channe9, sorry you are dealing with yet another additional complication after the closing of your clinic!

I think others have echoed by feelings. I would be worried about the disagreement on children by the couple as well as the hesitance for future children. Do they realize that by you doing IVF they would fertilize all of your eggs, and that could result in a whole handful (hopefully) of embryos?? You could have 10 embryos- use one now, freeze the rest. Would you have full say over your 9 left for future use or would A/B need to be consulted? I think legally you have full say, but do they know that?! Seems... like maybe if you want a KD- are there others you can consider that are less complicated? Are these friends of yours or people you found through some KD process??

[channe9]

Thanks to everyone who has responded. It's been soooo nice to feel like there's a community who gets this because earlier today wife and I were feeling pretty darn distraught. I'm feeling a bit more like we are in charge -- of course, we are!

The specifics which may or may not shape further advice:
In the UK, as ionaerebor said, any child born to a married same-sex couple will automatically have both mothers on the birth certificate. So legality is not a concern -- especially since we're going through a clinic. It's more the emotional stuff and the worry that we wouldn't have a possibility for #2.

RM80, we found A through a KD site -- we've been emailing/skype-ing back and forth since December but we finally had a chance to meet this past weekend. So I shouldn't be tied to this donor at all but, after this experience, I can't imagine going through the KD process again... It's been way too emotionally exhausting.

Stringy, EU regulations make you freeze donor sperm from anyone who is not your partner so A would only have to donate once and then we should have some leftover though I'm not entirely clear how many straws are produced by that one donation. ionaerebor, if you don't mind my asking, how do you end up with 20? Was that several donations?

I'm not sure if we'd be allowed to use straws donated "for" me with wife? But yes, also as RM80 said,there's the possibility of leftover embryos and other messy confusion that we've not yet discussed...

Seems like wife and I need to keep thinking and discussing. We're definitely on for IVF. Now it's this bit to figure out... (I don't know how many times we'll pick a donor! We've already used three different sperm bank donors!) Thanks for reflecting on this with me. I'm going to have wife read the thread when she gets home!

[ionaerebor]

channe9 It was over three donations, we had 24. Our clinic had him do a donation once six months before our first IUI, which gave us eight vials, and then they had him do another donation to be checked again just before our first IUI, which gave us another six vials, and then our first IUI was a fresh donation, from which we got seven vials.

I may have got the wrong person, but are you the person on TD that was thinking of going to Denmark?

[channe9]

ionaerebor, I am! In fact, we've been to Denmark for a consultation and testing. That's how we know that we'll be doing IVF.

Interesting to know the donation specifics. Though now, who knows what we'll do...

[wittyandwaiting]

Hi channe9! I'm a little late to the conversation with little to offer but I wanted to pop by to say that I am happy you made it over here! I remember you from TB.

I love karlamo's idea about the therapist, it sounds to me like A and B need to explore a bit more before one or the other commits.