Intro and an IEP and RedShirting Question

[hopecounts]

Hi! I'm hopecounts from the old SN board and GBCN.
DD is 4 and has ASD, she is currently attending an ABA based preschool t/th and a CSS program through the school M/W.
I spoke with her school team last week about how redshirting would work (not worried about services her ABA program where she will attend full time next year will provide OT/ST/ABA) in terms of getting an IEP for kindy. 

Today her lead teacher/IEP custodian caught me in the hall and suggested the option of having an IEP in place for next year on an itinerant basis for st/ot once a month. This was just a we were thinking about what you asked and this is an option for you to think about way.

My instinct is that is a good option, the team here has been following DD since she started speech at 2 so they know her, her history, presentation, etc. which makes me more comfortable that they will have a good grasp on what will be most appropriate for her in kindy with the input of her BCBA from her Preschool (they attend the IEP meeting if the parent likes as part of transition planning).
I know that having buy in from the school implementing the IEP is something to consider so am not sure if we would be better off letting it go through that channel in terms of making sure the kindy providers are on board. 

I just want to be sure I'm not missing something else or a bigger issue. 

Thoughts or opinions?

[mack]

What would be the downside?

[hopecounts]

I can't think of any right now either which is why I am leaning towards doing it.
I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

IEP won't be until April so I intend to think on it so just want to make sure it is absolutely the best choice to set DD up for success in kindy.

[mrsbuttinski]

I'm confused.

Will she be kindie age in the fall and you're planning to keep her in a private ABA classroom/program for an additional year with a dual enrollment that brings twice monthly ST/OT? Or is this a district ABA class and her IEP custodian is suggesting red shirting as an option? How close is she to the cut-off date and is the plan to bridge to kindie in a mainstream class, a self contained setting, a hybrid or something else entirely?

In terms of putting a transitional IEP together, it's best if both the team handing her off and the one that is more familiar with the skills she'll need in the new setting and that will be implementing the IEP participate. When a child is bridging from one district setting to another, the teams are generally very used to working together- when DS transitioned to middle school, for instance, the elementary IEP custodian sat in on a range of potential classes to get a feel for fit. The middle school IEp custodian observed DS in the elementary resource and mainstream classes.

In terms of red shirting, we did it before we had a dx because DS was going into a full day program and he just made the cutoff but was consitutionally immature. I feel there was a real benefit that first year, especially since the teachers couldn't write off my concerns as a result of him being the youngest in the class. In the context of mainstreaming with NT peers, the benefits faded pretty quickly as DS's maturity delay gap grew in comparison to his classmates. It was useful to have an additional year of maturity when he started college. It gave us an extra year to work on life skills.

[hopecounts]

She will turn 5 6 days before the cut off.
Its a private ABA, so I guess dual enrollment?
Based on where she is now I would guess a hybrid or mainstream (with or without an aide) but no firm discussions about that yet.
Main reason for redshirting is an additional year at her ABA school where she is flourishing and making great strides.

[mrsbuttinski]

So would she do 2 days a week in the ABA setting and the 2 days of a preschool somewhere? Would the intinerant services be with her at the preschool or the local elementary or would they be support/education for her teachers?

If she does an additional year of ABA, will she start kindie the next year or first?

[hopecounts]

She would be at the ABA based preschool 5 days a week 8-3.
She would transition to kindy the following year (kindy is mandated so she will be placed there I confirmed this with the school system)
Itinerant services will be at the center where she currently goes. Most likely either first thing in the morning and she would go to ABA preschool late or a late appointment after she gets home in the afternoon.

[salemkitty]

In my state, AL, if you go a year without an IEP the system has to make you inactive. If/when you re-enroll or want services again we have to start over with a referral process. This is to stay in compliance with state regulations. If you want to go without an IEP for the year you may want to ask if it will affect her services for when she does go to the system's kindergarten.
Also if you have an IEP in place next year and decide you want more services for some reason from the system it will be easier to get than if you had no IEP in place.

[mcribster]

My ASD son is on the cusp and we will be redshirting. I'm not sure how the IEP will go but I think an extra year can't hurt- esp if she is making big strides right now where she is. It sounds like they are offering you a good option to keep the IEP open? I'm following closely since we are in the same boat.

[mrsbuttinski]

Jan 21, 2015 22:40:39 GMT -5 salemkitty said:

In my state, AL, if you go a year without an IEP the system has to make you inactive. If/when you re-enroll or want services again we have to start over with a referral process. This is to stay in compliance with state regulations. If you want to go without an IEP for the year you may want to ask if it will affect her services for when she does go to the system's kindergarten.
Also if you have an IEP in place next year and decide you want more services for some reason from the system it will be easier to get than if you had no IEP in place.

That's true in most places.

But if hopecounts' LO is getting intinerant services as suggested by the IEP custodian, that would keep her in the system until the start of kindie. DS attended a private school for 2nd and 3rd; he was dually enrolled at our local public school with an IEP for speech/social skills. 

[mrsbuttinski]

Jan 21, 2015 15:31:40 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

She would be at the ABA based preschool 5 days a week 8-3.
She would transition to kindy the following year (kindy is mandated so she will be placed there I confirmed this with the school system)
Itinerant services will be at the center where she currently goes. Most likely either first thing in the morning and she would go to ABA preschool late or a late appointment after she gets home in the afternoon.

Sounds good.

Is there an option if she "outgrows" the ABA program mid-year? Sometimes you have to adjust things on the fly. It's hard when you're planning for 18 months out for a 4 year old. It's like 40% of her lifetime from now.

[hopecounts]

Jan 21, 2015 22:40:39 GMT -5 salemkitty said:

In my state, AL, if you go a year without an IEP the system has to make you inactive. If/when you re-enroll or want services again we have to start over with a referral process. This is to stay in compliance with state regulations. If you want to go without an IEP for the year you may want to ask if it will affect her services for when she does go to the system's kindergarten.
Also if you have an IEP in place next year and decide you want more services for some reason from the system it will be easier to get than if you had no IEP in place.

This is very helpful to know, thanks!

[salemkitty]

Jan 22, 2015 8:10:12 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

Jan 21, 2015 22:40:39 GMT -5 salemkitty said:

In my state, AL, if you go a year without an IEP the system has to make you inactive. If/when you re-enroll or want services again we have to start over with a referral process. This is to stay in compliance with state regulations. If you want to go without an IEP for the year you may want to ask if it will affect her services for when she does go to the system's kindergarten.
Also if you have an IEP in place next year and decide you want more services for some reason from the system it will be easier to get than if you had no IEP in place.

That's true in most places.

But if hopecounts' LO is getting intinerant services as suggested by the IEP custodian, that would keep her in the system until the start of kindie. DS attended a private school for 2nd and 3rd; he was dually enrolled at our local public school with an IEP for speech/social skills. 

Yes. I agree. I think the IEP custodian was probably trying to help her avoid this. 

[olivegoose]

thomasgriller... uhh... Welcome?

[mrsbuttinski]

Mar 12, 2015 21:46:52 GMT -5 thomasgriller said:

As a man who was redshirted, I must say I hated it. A lot of parents say they redshirt their children to give them an academic advantage over their peers, but let me ask: How does the child have an academic advantage over his or her peers when they’re a grade behind all their peers? How are they ahead if they’re in second grade when they’re supposed to be in third. This is why I would never redshirt my kids. I’d much rather they be doing okay in the grade they’re supposed to be in then be doing spectacularly being a grade behind. Being the smartest when you're the oldest is nothing to be proud of, and I want to be proud of my kids. What would fill me with pride is if they were doing better than kids their age and older. If I redshirted my kids, they would be deprived of any academic glory, like I was. So don't redshirt your child, as it will make impossible for both you and your child to be proud.

Welcome to the Special Needs Board. Are you a parent of a child with special needs, a professional who works with children, or do you have differences yourself?

Redshirting always arouses strong opinions. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Most of us here who consider redshirting are making the choice for a developmentally delayed child rather than one who is well developing, rather than to maximize the academic or athletic success of a typically developing child.

My son has Aspergers which is associated with a delay in social and emotional maturity; his drivers licence says he's 21 but his social, emotional and problem solving skill set is more like that of a typical 17 year old. We did redshirt his entrance to kindie and that extra year served him well early on and again as he started college.  The only complaint he had with starting kindie a year after he would first be allowed was that it gave him one year less than a few of his fellow scouts in which to earn the rank of Eagle. Boys transition to scouts based on grade completed but must finish their projects prior to turning 18.

I never really thought about my son's academic achievement being something for me to bask in. I am proud of him because he is a kind, ethical and hardworking individual. 

[mack]

Mar 12, 2015 21:46:52 GMT -5 thomasgriller said:

As a man who was redshirted, I must say I hated it. A lot of parents say they redshirt their children to give them an academic advantage over their peers, but let me ask: How does the child have an academic advantage over his or her peers when they’re a grade behind all their peers? How are they ahead if they’re in second grade when they’re supposed to be in third. This is why I would never redshirt my kids. I’d much rather they be doing okay in the grade they’re supposed to be in then be doing spectacularly being a grade behind. Being the smartest when you're the oldest is nothing to be proud of, and I want to be proud of my kids. What would fill me with pride is if they were doing better than kids their age and older. If I redshirted my kids, they would be deprived of any academic glory, like I was. So don't redshirt your child, as it will make impossible for both you and your child to be proud.

I don't want to be dramatic here, but this statement is really disconcerting to me. 

[mack]

Mar 13, 2015 6:26:02 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

Mar 12, 2015 21:46:52 GMT -5 thomasgriller said:

As a man who was redshirted, I must say I hated it. A lot of parents say they redshirt their children to give them an academic advantage over their peers, but let me ask: How does the child have an academic advantage over his or her peers when they’re a grade behind all their peers? How are they ahead if they’re in second grade when they’re supposed to be in third. This is why I would never redshirt my kids. I’d much rather they be doing okay in the grade they’re supposed to be in then be doing spectacularly being a grade behind. Being the smartest when you're the oldest is nothing to be proud of, and I want to be proud of my kids. What would fill me with pride is if they were doing better than kids their age and older. If I redshirted my kids, they would be deprived of any academic glory, like I was. So don't redshirt your child, as it will make impossible for both you and your child to be proud.

Welcome to the Special Needs Board. Are you a parent of a child with special needs, a professional who works with children, or do you have differences yourself?

Redshirting always arouses strong opinions. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Most of us here who consider redshirting are making the choice for a developmentally delayed child rather than one who is well developing, rather than to maximize the academic or athletic success of a typically developing child.

My son has Aspergers which is associated with a delay in social and emotional maturity; his drivers licence says he's 21 but his social, emotional and problem solving skill set is more like that of a typical 17 year old. We did redshirt his entrance to kindie and that extra year served him well early on and again as he started college.  The only complaint he had with starting kindie a year after he would first be allowed was that it gave him one year less than a few of his fellow scouts in which to earn the rank of Eagle. Boys transition to scouts based on grade completed but must finish their projects prior to turning 18.

I never really thought about my son's academic achievement being something for me to bask in. I am proud of him because he is a kind, ethical and hardworking individual. 

Yeah, this is not like deciding whether or not to delay the start of kindergarten for my kid who's birthday is right after the cut off. 

[mack]

So, does this mean I should not be proud of my grades in high school and college and my high SAT scores because I had accommodations? LMK.

[mack]

Or what about kids who get held back? Should they not be proud of themselves for the rest of the achievements because they are older?

[olivegoose]

thomasgriller, do you have a special needs child? I'm curious as to why you decided to participate on this forum.

[mack]

Mar 13, 2015 13:33:02 GMT -5 thomasgriller said:

Mar 13, 2015 11:25:06 GMT -5 mack said:

So, does this mean I should not be proud of my grades in high school and college and my high SAT scores because I had accommodations? LMK.

While I think you should of the fact that you went to college, especially if you graduated. Most people in the country don't have a bachelor's degree. Were you the oldest of the students taking the SAT?

this argument is strange. 

[mack]

Mar 13, 2015 14:42:51 GMT -5 thomasgriller said:

Mar 13, 2015 11:21:54 GMT -5 mack said:

Yeah, this is not like deciding whether or not to delay the start of kindergarten for my kid who's birthday is right after the cut off. 

I have a mild form of autism and so does my 4-year-old son. He'll be turning 5 on July 3rd, and the cut-off in our area is September 1st. His preschool teachers want me to redshirt him, but because of the belief I stated, there's no way in hell I'm going to do that.

Okay, so instead of doing something that is more developmentally helpful for him and gives him a better chance for success, you are going to let your pride make the decision?

[olivegoose]

I don't understand how being slightly older than your peers means that your academic success is any less.

[mrsbuttinski]

Mar 13, 2015 14:42:51 GMT -5 thomasgriller said:

Mar 13, 2015 11:21:54 GMT -5 mack said:

Yeah, this is not like deciding whether or not to delay the start of kindergarten for my kid who's birthday is right after the cut off. 

I have a mild form of autism and so does my 4-year-old son. He'll be turning 5 on July 3rd, and the cut-off in our area is September 1st. His preschool teachers want me to redshirt him, but because of the belief I stated, there's no way in hell I'm going to do that.

I suspected you might be an adult on spectrum.

Welcome to the board. Neurodiversity can make a board like this a better place.

Is your son receiving special education services at this time? I'm sort of surprised a preschool teacher would suggest redshirting if it keeps him out of public school and potential supports/services. Where I live, it's difficult to make the choice to redshirt a child with an IEP since it's considered a violation of the child's right to LRE. We were able to pull it off because DS wasn't dxd until the end of kindie.

[leroybrown]

A 10 year old in 4th grade is not "behind", just as an 18 year old kid isn't behind whether he's a college freshman or a HS senior.

[olivegoose]

I disagree. I think if they are at grade level for the grade they are in then they are on schedule. Reading levels, for example, are based on grade level. If a 10th grader is in 4th grade and is reading at a 4th grade level, they are on track. If a 9 year old is in 5th grade and reads at a 4th grade level, they are behind (Yes, a 9 year old could end up in 5th grade, I was 9 at the start of my 5th grade school year).

[akafred]

I am generally not a fan of redshirting (outside of special circumstances like OP's), but this is a strange argument to me.

Can we just accept that we are all trying to do what is best for our individual children? (And that the parents who know the child best are in the best position to determine that?) OP didn't ask for opinions about *whether* to redshirt, just how to execute it and maintain the IEP.

[spooko]

It is pretty bizarre to just breeze onto a community board such as this, without introduction, and make pronouncements about people's kids that essentially state that their kids aren't worthy of their parents' pride. Can't say you've made a decent impression, thomasgriller.

[olivegoose]

I will agree to disagree.

[olivegoose]

Mar 13, 2015 22:58:06 GMT -5 thomasgriller said:

Mar 13, 2015 21:46:40 GMT -5 spooko said:

It is pretty bizarre to just breeze onto a community board such as this, without introduction, and make pronouncements about people's kids that essentially state that their kids aren't worthy of their parents' pride. Can't say you've made a decent impression, thomasgriller.

I'm just saying that it's something to think about when considering redshirting. They can make their parents proud in other ways, but just not in school. It's up to the parents to decide whether it's worth the sacrifice to have their kids always be behind just so they will be more comfortable in their environment.

If I end up redshirting my 4 year old DD she can still make me proud of her academically. What you are saying is not universally true. It's your opinion.