Anti-Vaccination compared to Food Allergies

[boogerbear]

It seems as though many people have begun to value themselves/their families above all else. So they want to protect their child against "ingredients!!!" and appealing to the greater good has little effect. Individual above society is a prevalent mindset among anti-vax people.

[boogerbear]

But to the comparison, I think it's a bit of a stretch however the outcomes are similar. Kids can/do die because of vaccine-preventable diseases because of someone else deciding their kid shouldn't get MMR vax/whatever.

[carseat]

I'm actually really annoyed that it's so easy in Ontario to be exempt from vaccination when attending public school. All you have to do is fill out a conscientious objection form and file it. I was really surprised to learn this when we were initially registering DD for preschool last year.

I feel that vaccination should be mandatory to attend public school unless you have medical documentation that recommends against it.

[carissalynp]

Jan 28, 2015 9:30:25 GMT -5 carseat said:

I'm actually really annoyed that it's so easy in Ontario to be exempt from vaccination when attending public school. All you have to do is fill out a conscientious objection form and file it. I was really surprised to learn this when we were initially registering DD for preschool last year.

I feel that vaccination should be mandatory to attend public school unless you have medical documentation that recommends against it.

It's easy here too. However California just put in a new rule that if you opt out you need to go to a class about vaccinations. Apparently they've had a 20% rate of people opting back in after that. I mean I wish it was 100% but at least it's not 0. I'd really like to see that everywhere.

[boogerbear]

Jan 28, 2015 9:30:25 GMT -5 carseat said:

I'm actually really annoyed that it's so easy in Ontario to be exempt from vaccination when attending public school. All you have to do is fill out a conscientious objection form and file it. I was really surprised to learn this when we were initially registering DD for preschool last year.

I feel that vaccination should be mandatory to attend public school unless you have medical documentation that recommends against it.

It's really shocking how easy it is in a lot of places. MI has a "personal belief" exemption in addition to medical/religious beliefs.   This may be an UO, but I don't agree with religious exemptions either.

The big thing that bothers me about barring unvaxed kids from school is they aren't making this choice, but they would be getting punished by lacking in access to education.  I don't know what the answer is, but it should be a lot harder to send your kid to daycare/school without vaccinations (outside of legitimate medical reasons).

[carseat]

Jan 28, 2015 9:55:45 GMT -5 boogerbear said:

Jan 28, 2015 9:30:25 GMT -5 carseat said:

I'm actually really annoyed that it's so easy in Ontario to be exempt from vaccination when attending public school. All you have to do is fill out a conscientious objection form and file it. I was really surprised to learn this when we were initially registering DD for preschool last year.

I feel that vaccination should be mandatory to attend public school unless you have medical documentation that recommends against it.

It's really shocking how easy it is in a lot of places. MI has a "personal belief" exemption in addition to medical/religious beliefs.   This may be an UO, but I don't agree with religious exemptions either.

The big thing that bothers me about barring unvaxed kids from school is they aren't making this choice, but they would be getting punished by lacking in access to education.  I don't know what the answer is, but it should be a lot harder to send your kid to daycare/school without vaccinations (outside of legitimate medical reasons).

True. I suppose it would force anti-vaxxers to organize a private school or home school. Though I suspect in a lot of cases most parents would end up vaccinating their kids because of the cost or inconvenience of finding something else. To me it just feels like such an important health issue. You don't want to vaccinate your kid? Okay, but keep him away from my kids, thanks.

[lalaprep]

I'm 100% pro-vaccine, I think the nut/food allergy argument is a bit of a stretch though. I'm a little worried that it gives ant-vaxers another argument to break down in their favor. Taking nuts away doesn't involve putting something in their child. It is subtraction of an agent from the environment, not an addition of agent to their child's bodies. So I think in that way the argument really breaks down, and doesn't really help convince any anti-vaxers to do the right thing.


I read the article about the little boy who is in remission from leukemia and his dad's suit. All I could think was if they asked the boy's classmates if they would be willing to get some shots to help protect and potentially save their friend's life that every child would say yes.

[carseat]

Jan 28, 2015 10:18:29 GMT -5 lalaprep said:

I'm 100% pro-vaccine, I think the nut/food allergy argument is a bit of a stretch though. I'm a little worried that it gives ant-vaxers another argument to break down in their favor. Taking nuts away doesn't involve putting something in their child. It is subtraction of an agent from the environment, not an addition of agent to their child's bodies. So I think in that way the argument really breaks down, and doesn't really help convince any anti-vaxers to do the right thing.


I read the article about the little boy who is in remission from leukemia and his dad's suit. All I could think was if they asked the boy's classmates if they would be willing to get some shots to help protect and potentially save their friend's life that every child would say yes.

I agree with you on that first part, but I also feel like it's subtracting significant risk from the environment, so it's comparable in that respect. If someone with measles breathes in a room, that room is infectious for a full 30 minutes after that person leaves it. I vaccinate my kids, but they aren't 100% effective, and some people can't vaccinate their kids. So little Johnny Measles goes to class and Sue Immunocompromised gets it and dies. I don't think Johnny's parents had any right to put Sue at risk that way.

[lalaprep]

carseat very good point about the subtracting the risk from the environment. I hadn't looked at it that way.

I don't know, I will never understand anti-vaxers.

[caloneis]

Interesting analogy but I am really replying to say: Brian Andreas, yay! 

[chiawombat]

Now that the stinkin' measles is one county away from my unvaccinated (for nine more days) kid, I feel like I'm fueled by rage and fear. Because of this, I'm taking the UO with boogerbear. Short of a medical reason, you should have to vaccinate to attend public schools. If you're truly so devout that vaccination is morally reprehensible to you, you're probably more likely to attend a religious school or home school anyway.

I have an pediatric NP friend who told me that she had a reformed anti-vaxer show her a pamphlet about how to get around school requirements, and one of them was to fake a religious objection, because you're unlikely to be questioned or asked for proof. She also mentioned that there's been an extremely sharp increase in people who are opposed to vaccines coming in complaining that their kid has developed hives from eggs or other things that they believe will lead to a medical exemption. #anecdote

[iwubrory]

Jan 28, 2015 9:34:08 GMT -5 carissalynp said:

It's easy here too. However California just put in a new rule that if you opt out you need to go to a class about vaccinations. Apparently they've had a 20% rate of people opting back in after that. I mean I wish it was 100% but at least it's not 0. I'd really like to see that everywhere.Where did you hear about this new law in California? I can't find anything on it. I did find that beginning in 2014 we have a personal beliefs exemption, which is just plain stupid. I don't think that would be passing if it were up this year.

[firefly9]

Jan 28, 2015 13:06:57 GMT -5 @thatgolfbitch said:

ITA that I don't think religious belief is a good enough reason to not get vaxxed. I don't think anything is a good enough reason beyond medical necessity.

100% agree.

[jessasaurus]

Jan 28, 2015 11:13:58 GMT -5 chiawombat said:

Now that the stinkin' measles is one county away from my unvaccinated (for nine more days) kid, I feel like I'm fueled by rage and fear. Because of this, I'm taking the UO with boogerbear. Short of a medical reason, you should have to vaccinate to attend public schools. If you're truly so devout that vaccination is morally reprehensible to you, you're probably more likely to attend a religious school or home school anyway.

I have an pediatric NP friend who told me that she had a reformed anti-vaxer show her a pamphlet about how to get around school requirements, and one of them was to fake a religious objection, because you're unlikely to be questioned or asked for proof. She also mentioned that there's been an extremely sharp increase in people who are opposed to vaccines coming in complaining that their kid has developed hives from eggs or other things that they believe will lead to a medical exemption. #anecdote

I hear you. We've had 5 cases (4 in the state and 1 in my county) of measles. I'm terrified because E won't be vaccinated until the end of February. I also saw on the news the other day that a local women's 5 month old was exposed at the pedi's office. I would flip my shit.

[vshumway]

It's easy to get around it in MD also. I only have 6 kids in my class and once is unvaccinated. I had not idea until she got whooping cough a few years ago. However, MD did just pass a new law with stricter regulations for any kid going into kindergarten for seventh grade (the years they are required to provide vaccination records). It is great going into the future, but any kid who is not in those grades currently are okay until they get there.

I will say that I know the county next to mine had over 100 kids on the cut off date of September 1st, that were not allowed in because they did not have the proper paperwork to show all of their vaccinations.

[karlamo]

I never cared more about vaccines until I had R.
There is a mom in one of my other boards who doesn't have her children vaccinated. She was upset when her BIL didn't want her to bring her kids by to meet their NEWBORN. I couldn't get over the fact that she felt like she was the victim in all of this. It took all my strength not to point out how selfish she was being by wanting to put her nephew in potenially harms way.