BTDT Moms -- putting a toddler to bed at night

[lawndog1216]

I could have posted this under "I cried today because...." but I seriously need some help and I'm now at the point where internet strangers might be my best bet. Also, I've not been to Parenting before, and I feel like today isn't the greatest day to pop up as a newb with a big old question. My hunt on TB didn't yield anything useful, plus I don't like being over there giving XO page views.

DD is a year and a half (she'll be 19 months at the end of January). When she was six months old - just around the sweet spot for doing some light sleep training work for this non-CIO-believer - her pediatrician heard a heart murmur and scared the bejeezus out of me about it. We had to wait two weeks to get in with a cardiologist (and of course -- it was NOTHING, she got an all clear), but I was afraid to let her cry excessively, and so I rocked her to sleep every night.

A year later, I'm still rocking her to sleep every night, and it's taking longer and longer (45 minutes to an hour is the norm -- two nights ago it was just about two HOURS). My husband tried twice in the last year when I was out, and I came up to a wide awake baby at 11 p.m. and a really frazzled husband. Nap time usually anyone could put her down, but now we're at the point where that's not happening either. So none of her (daytime) caretakers (all family members she knows and loves) can get her to nap because she stands in the crib screaming "MAMA!!!"

I just got off the phone with my mother, who is taking care of her today at our house, and she was frustrated because she couldn't get DD down. She said, "I don't know what you're going to do, but you'll have to do something. " I jokingly said, "yeah -- I know, I broke her." and my mom (who's been in a shit mood since the holidays and will continue to be until March) said, "Yes, you did."

Obviously the current method isn't working but fuuuuuuuuck - did you have to make me cry at work? (Note that my mother also does  NOT know I'm pregnant yet -- that's going to be another whole shitstorm in and of itself.)

Anyhow -- who's got recommendations or experience I can glean something from on this?

[gidgetgirl08]

Damn, that's rough. I would be in tears and frustrated after 2 hours of rocking. DS was more difficult than DD when getting him to STTN. I eventually had to give hugs, kisses, sing a song then put him in bed. He would cry and I would go back in after 5/10 minutes to comfort him. I would increase the time between going in. It was difficult because the minutes that I would stand outside his door listening to him cry felt like hours and I was so close to tears. But now that he is going to bed (after giving everyone hugs/kisses and getting a song or two) and STTN I realize that the pain in the beginning was worth it. HTH and GL to you.

[lindy]

I forget the book name, sleep easy or something, that is geared towards toddler sleep. It is known as a "gentle" solution and usually involves you staying in the room assisting in getting them to sleep but without actually rocking. Like maybe you put your hand on her while she lays in the crib.

[tmclawchick]

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I went through a similar phase with DS when he was about 13 months. Bedtime was turning into a nightmare!!! My advice is to establish a bedtime/naptime routine and stick to it. Make sure your DH and all other caregivers know what it is and implement it consistently. FWIW, with DS we established a bedtime routine and stuck to it. Bath, PJs, brush teeth, 2 books, then I would rub his back for 2 minutes and then leave. In the beginning it was awful, and the first night, DH had to literally hold me back from going in his nursery. He kept insisting that if I went in then it would make things even worse (and he was right). Truthfully, it took a bit for DS to get used to the new routine (be consistent and stand your ground!) but after a few weeks he was over it. I know it's awful to deal with and you feel horrible hearing her cry, but unless you stand your ground, this will be a problem for a very very long time.

[joi922]

That was really uncool of your mom - sorry she said that to you.

We do something similar to PP. We always put him down sleepy but awake, and use a white noise machine. We also do the 5 minute thing - now just overnight since he's pretty good at putting himself down at bedtime. When we trained, we would sometimes wait a little longer than 5 minutes (maybe 8) because we KNEW he was tired and just needed to lie down. We didn't pick him up if we went back in, just settled him back down and left again, no talking or turning lights on. I read about it in the Sleep Lady Goodnight Sleep Tight book - might be worth checking out? I'm pretty sure she broke down her recommendations by age group, so she may have good tips for toddlers.

Does your daughter have a favorite toy or blanket she can sleep with? That may help. J is a blanket kid and he goes down better when he can snuggle with his favorite blanket. Good luck!

[aelias]

First, big hugs. Sleep problems are maddening, and combining that with a heart scare has got to be very stressful.



Second, of course you didn't break her. Shut up, your mom. You're not helping!


Our experience was similar to aliam20.  We'd go through our bedtime routine, put him down awake, then let him cry for 5 min.  Go up and comfort.  Extend to 7 min.  Comfort.  10 min max.  Repeat till asleep.  Do it again when he wakes up at night.  No lie - for about 2 weeks, it was rough.

But this did eventually work for bedtime, though we've had to do "refresher" sleep training after disruptive events (sickness, travel, one parent out of town).  For nap time, the only thing that ever worked was daycare!  He would not nap on his own at home for me ever.  Then, when he was about 7 mos, I went back to work and he went to daycare, and suddenly he could nap on his own.  Go fig.

The other thing I would say is that, because your daughter's older, you can explain in simple terms what's happening.  "I love you very much, sweetie.  But it's time to sleep.  Don't worry, I'm right downstairs."  When I do that, it seems to help the kid, and I know it helps me.

Good luck.  Sending you good sleepytime vibes.

[lawndog1216]

Thank you, ladies. I think I'm having an issue dealing with the fact that I really, truly believed I was doing the "right" thing by not letting her CIO. I do have very strong beliefs about it, but this isn't working for either of us (even with all the rocking, she doesn't even STTN -- it's lather/rinse/repeat 4-5 hours after she finally goes down) and I guess I'm just pissed that now there's nothing left to do with her but CIO. And if that was going to be the case, then it would have been heck of a lot easier to do this 11 months ago. BLAH. Ragey hormones overtaking the weepy ones.



ETA: rereading everyone's responses and SERIOUSLY -- I'm so grateful for this place. THANK YOU.

[tmclawchick]

Eh, go easy on yourself... it's all trial and error Glad this was helpful!

[maroongolf]

That's rough. Don't beat yourself up. I second the Sleep Lady book. She has some gentle solutions that will slowly teach your DD to put herself to sleep. She also has great info and suggestions for newborns so you can start off on the right foot with your new baby.

[nbalkin]

I was against CIO at first but when dd was a little over a year we did it. She cried for 40 min the first night and 3 min the second and has been a great sleeper since. She may get into a few days where she is teething or something is bothering her and her sleep gets messed up but overall she does well. I would not have survived without letting her CIO since i work full time and mamma needs her sleep !

[telos]

I don't have very much by way of advice, just commiseration. Bedtime is always a very, very stressful time in our household. My four-year-old still won't, most nights, independently go to bed. You have to read to him and then lie down in bed with him until you hear him snoring - then all is clear to tip-toe out of the room. If he hears you leave the room while he's still awake he shoots up and looks puzzled - "where are you going?" Sometimes, he accepts the answer. Other nights, we start again. Same with 22-month-old DD, except she must be nursed to sleep if I'm in the room. DH has to rub her back to get her to sleep. Luckily, the time from story time to snores has reduced over the last year or so, average of 45-30 minutes. We've been doing a lot of what PP mentioned: stick to a routine. PJs, brush teeth, read for 10-15 minutes, and then quiet time.

We have an open door policy, so the kids come into our room at night and crawl into our bed if they wake up. That's just how it is. And they end up there a lot. Cribs have never worked for us, because our kids have always needed to be snuggled to sleep, and the dreaded "transfer" to the crib is so stressful.

I'm really sorry you're going through this. Sleep issues are the worst, and what your mom said wasn't cool. You don't have to CIO, we never did, but our problem isn't exactly "solved," either.  I guess we just got used to it. 

[ajetter]

We did CIO/Ferber at 6 months with both girls so I'm not a huge help with an older kid. But could you try the whole sitting in her room approach and move further and further towards the door until you're sitting in the hallway while she falls asleep, and then eventually you just don't stay at all. I can't remember what that method is called, or if it would work, but might be a happy medium between CIO and doing whatever she wants.

Bedtime struggles are so rough. Sorry you're dealing with them!

[heavenwhip]

I don't have much to add as I basically did the same thing as aliam20, but I just wanted to say that I'm sorry you're having a rough time. Also, I got the sleep sheep from toys r us for white noise as well as a nighttime snuggly for my tiny human. She loves it because she can turn it on herself in the middle of the night.

[Deleted]

My daughter is 20 months and still doesn't sttn. She gets up between 1am and 3am and we have cut out the milk but now she just wants to lay on the couch with me. So we lay on the couch for 20 mins or so and than I take her back to the crib. Some nights she sttn but I don't. It's a never ending cycle. And now in 7 months or so we get to start over. what joy.

[hurricaine]

I was in the same boat as you and it's still nto always easy. But here's our story:

We (following all of the co-sleeping guidelines) had DD sleep in our bed for a long time. I also nursed her to sleep for a long time. At about 18-20 months I had enough of the nursing to sleep (at home, she wouldn't sleep without it, but elsewhere she would), so we transitioned her out of that by having my husband put her to bed with cuddles. She cried for me a bit and it was hard, but she was always comforted and with someone. Then we wanted to get her out of our bed and were really struggling with it, in large part because we thought she'd sleep through the night if she wasn't disturbed by us. Daycare mentioned that they didn't put her in the crib anymore because she preferred to sleep with the big kids on the floor. This was somewhere around 20 months so we thought, lets try the toddler bed.Sure enough, she's sleeping through the night in it! She still needs to be cuddled to sleep, but that's so much easier in the toddler bed and elsewhere and then transitioning into the crib. She wakes up at about 6am and comes for a cuddle with us till we wake up. Naps are still hard, but they always have been for her so we try things like putting her in the stroller or whatever. But everyone seems to have more success getting her to nap on a pillow on the floor or on a bed than in a crib or pack and play. Maybe try that for a bit?

Our next step is transitioning away from being in the room with her while she falls asleep. That's gonna be the hard one.

[numb3rmel]

Ugh, sleepless nights with a unhappy toddler are the worst! I'm so sorry!

I echo others with the routine. And we did CIO. I know some are strongly against it but knowing my child, I quickly realized that the more she was interacted with, the longer the cries continued. So like in the 5 mins, if we went to comfort her, it's like her timer reset to 0 to calm down. We CIO earlier than you are now but still use the same guidelines. We stick to a routine and we don't wavier on bedtime. When we say it's bedtime, it's bedtime. She'll protest but once we close the door, she's out.

When we started CIO, we made sure she had comfort items. Stuffed animals, blankets, lovely, anything that she used for comfort. And we only allow her to use those items in bed. So like a blanket has become her favorite comfort item. As soon as she wakes up, "blanket is for sleep, we'll save the blanket for nap/bedtime." Took a little while for her to catch on that no, we won't take the blanket but it works now. She goes to cuddle her blanket when she's sleepy, in her bed. So sort of a reward system. You sleep/lay down in bed, you get your blanket... am I explain that right? ha!

Anyways, I laughed at your mom's comment. I'm sure she didn't mean it and it sounds more like a funny moment conversation than a real dig.

[lawndog1216]

You all have made me feel much better. I truly, truly want to hug you all - whether you're commiserating or offering advice, your help means a lot. numb3rmel, I've decided to take my mother's comment as a joke, even though I know in the moment it wasn't. If I were to bring it up, she'd say she was only kidding (regardless), so I'll just take it that way.

Currently, MH is trying to put her down -- talk about a change up! We might look into a bed next month, and I'm definitely ordering the Sleep Lady off of Amazon next.

[karnelac]

Hugs to you. I was against CIO too, and then I had no choice but to try it, and honestly, I was mad I didn't do it sooner. That being said, you know in your gut what is right for your baby and go with that. There are also sleep specialists available through a lot of pediatricians and reaching out to one might be helpful. They can put you on a highly routine to get her to STTN. Good luck!

[vtcnicely]

When it comes to CIO - to each their own. I was never "against" it, but it never fit me if that makes sense. There were definitely some days especially around 18 months where I spent nights in a sleeping bag on DS' floor. Now at 3 he's a great sleeper and I still just sit beside his bed and tell him a story and rub his back as he falls asleep. It works for us, good luck in finding what works for you - but don't ever feel like you broke your kid. Right now they may want a few more minutes with us, in a few short years they'll want nothing to do with us.

[Deleted]

I am sorry you are dealing with this, your mom should not have said that. Sleep is hard. I fortunately have a really good sleeper now, but I also did CIO at 5 months, again at 12 months and for a third time at 18 months (each time it only took 2-3 days). We have a fairly strict bedtime routine and don't give into any stalling. My DD needs to sleep or she is a beast, much like her mama. She has a baby and a star projector in her room that she likes.

I do wonder if at this point maybe you should switch it up and introduce a whole new bedtime routine (like your DH putting her to bed) and bed so that there is no association with the old sleep routine. Let her get excited about her new bed by picking out sheets or blankets or something. We switched to a toddler bed at 18 months (for safety) and it worked really well. Does she have a baby doll she can read to and put to bed and then you can do the same. If she gets out of bed, don't say anything but "bedtime" and lead her back to bed (supernanny style). Don't give into any crying, stalling, sneaking into your bed for several days and see if that helps. Also, for the first few days make sure she is tired at bedtime, not overtired, but tired enough that she will fall asleep quickly. For a while we gave DD a sippy of water in bed which helped comfort her too.

Good luck, I hope you find something that helps!

[oopsiedaisies]

Hugs mama!! I actually just posted about this in the May13 board on TB the other night. My DD is 20 months and in the past few weeks she quit nursing to sleep, and the rocking will take upwards of 45 minutes now to get her to sleep. AND sometimes she will wake up during the transfer and we have to start all over. Its so frustrating. I know we don't want to necessarily give clicks to TB, but the mamas gave me lots of good advice. I had a good ugly cry that night and DH and I talked about the Ferber method and we will be starting it again on Sunday night. Its the increasing intervals that some PPs have talked about, and just letting her know that we are still here. The biggest part for me is going to be staying strong through it...Best of luck! I'm here to commiserate!

[jgy]

FWIW I felt/feel very similarly to you about CIO. For me what really helped was a shift in my understanding of why he was crying. I chose to change our routine bit by bit. We got the point where I would put him down drowsy, but awake (as opposed to nursing all the way to sleep, which is what we had been doing), then I would stay in the room with him until he fell asleep. Yes, he would cry. But it became clear to me that he was crying not because he was scared, uncomfortable, sick or hurting. He was crying because he was expressing his displeasure in the change of routine. But that's life, kid. Once I was able to get over the idea that my child was wailing because he was terrified at having been left alone, everything shifted. Eventually I was able to leave the room before he was asleep, and gradually he stopped crying. My process took longer than many others' but it was what was right for me/us.

Good luck! Know that you're not alone, and that you will find your way through this!

[lavonnallama]

1. You're mom's comment was out of line. 2. I really don't have any advice other than trying to gently let her cio and maybe introducing some comfort objects.

[vtcnicely]

Also - I found this article one day when I was questioning were were doing the wrong thing by putting him to bed each night. It made me cry then feel better about my choice.
www.huffingtonpost.com/lauren-cormier/the-day-my-son-gave-up-on_b_5701432.html