Sleeping Thread

[annarose]

Jul 19, 2016 17:18:41 GMT -5 westiemom said:

How many naps should DD be taking now? She's 3 months tomorrow.

I found this guide online. Sounds about right IMO

[mrsw062610]

Jul 20, 2016 4:12:54 GMT -5 annarose said:

Jul 19, 2016 17:18:41 GMT -5 westiemom said:

How many naps should DD be taking now? She's 3 months tomorrow.

I found this guide online. Sounds about right IMO

Yeah this sounds about right for us.

[gahorseygal]

DS seems to prefer to be put down drowsy at night. It's frustrating because it can take a while to get him drowsy! I rock, pat, bounce etc to get him sleepy. Whatever it takes. DS was so easy, she would nurse and pass out. Then again it made it impossible for others to put her to bed.

[teraiin]

Jul 20, 2016 4:12:54 GMT -5 annarose said:

Jul 19, 2016 17:18:41 GMT -5 westiemom said:

How many naps should DD be taking now? She's 3 months tomorrow.

I found this guide online. Sounds about right IMO

Thanks for this! I'm constantly worried DS isn't having enough awake time but this shows he's right in the zone.

[snoris]

Hmm I'm curious what baby I does for that chart. I haven't taken much note, I only feel like he never sleeps during the day haha. It could be that he's on the 30 min schedule. It feels like he only cat naps here and there.

[Deleted]

Okay, I have a question. Right now it takes forever of us rocking/bouncing/walking to get R to go to sleep. She doesn't want to have anything to do with being put down while drowsy, she just screams. But at what point should we stop rocking/bouncing/walking her around as much to get her to go to sleep on her own a bit more? At what point is it safer to let her just cry herself to sleep (within reason). I've tried googling, but it's just lead to more questions and not really given me any answers. Is she just a baby that needs those things? Is that a thing? AH! I wish I would have read a million more books about newborn sleep before I had a newborn. I've been trying to read the same book since she was born and I'm not even halfway through it.

[westiemom]

Jul 21, 2016 22:08:59 GMT -5 @led said:

Okay, I have a question. Right now it takes forever of us rocking/bouncing/walking to get R to go to sleep. She doesn't want to have anything to do with being put down while drowsy, she just screams. But at what point should we stop rocking/bouncing/walking her around as much to get her to go to sleep on her own a bit more? At what point is it safer to let her just cry herself to sleep (within reason). I've tried googling, but it's just lead to more questions and not really given me any answers. Is she just a baby that needs those things? Is that a thing? AH! I wish I would have read a million more books about newborn sleep before I had a newborn. I've been trying to read the same book since she was born and I'm not even halfway through it.

I have been looking for answers to this too and have seen anywhere from 4-6 months... I can't seem to find a really good answer! I let DD whine a little but once she gets to a point where I know she's about to really start crying I intervene. I am lucky though and she doesn't require much assistance to go to sleep (except during leap times). babycaps seems to know a lot about this I believe?

[PAruby525]

I also think part of it is personal preference @led. If you LIKE and are abls to pat/walk/bounce/rock her to sleep, then continue. If you dont mind letting her CIO thats up to you too. There is much controversy on either side. If you are in the CIO preference, Ive read at least 3 months old.

[mrssqueegy]

Everyone has strong opinions on CIO. I feel strongly that 4 months is the absolute youngest for CIO, and prefer 5-6 months. You have to decide on what works for you.

[babycaps]

Jul 21, 2016 22:14:54 GMT -5 westiemom said:

Jul 21, 2016 22:08:59 GMT -5 @led said:

Okay, I have a question. Right now it takes forever of us rocking/bouncing/walking to get R to go to sleep. She doesn't want to have anything to do with being put down while drowsy, she just screams. But at what point should we stop rocking/bouncing/walking her around as much to get her to go to sleep on her own a bit more? At what point is it safer to let her just cry herself to sleep (within reason). I've tried googling, but it's just lead to more questions and not really given me any answers. Is she just a baby that needs those things? Is that a thing? AH! I wish I would have read a million more books about newborn sleep before I had a newborn. I've been trying to read the same book since she was born and I'm not even halfway through it.

I have been looking for answers to this too and have seen anywhere from 4-6 months... I can't seem to find a really good answer! I let DD whine a little but once she gets to a point where I know she's about to really start crying I intervene. I am lucky though and she doesn't require much assistance to go to sleep (except during leap times). babycaps seems to know a lot about this I believe?

@led , at my 2mo appt yesterday, with our pedi who trained with Dr. Weisbluth(the sleep book guy) her words were: 5-10min of crying before going in and trying again, no more naps while being held (tears). All sleep in crib. So that is what we are aiming for. dh and I decided we will not delay getting him to sleep for longer than a total of 5min this week, 6-7min next week, 7-10week until he's 3.5mos.
But yeah...now is the time to break the big dependencies. At 3-4mo we will do more aggressive training, up to 20-30min of crying , again depending on type of cry.
@led , westiemom

Highly recommend getting the Healthy sleep habits happy child book by weissbluth.

[babycaps]

Ps. Our "bootcamp" starts today. Right now, he is fast asleep on nursing pillow!!! On me!

[ellesea]

Honestly @led I nursed ds1 to sleep for a year, rocked him for even longer. It was easier than listening to him cry. He sleeps for 12 hours a night now, started that around 10 months. But it was rough when he was still up 4-5 times a night at 8+ months just because he needed to nurse to fall asleep.

With this one I'm putting him on a schedule now(practically perfect baby) mostly so I can make sure he's eating enough, but also to work on naps and night sleep. He's always let me put him down wide awake and he puts himself to sleep. Ds1 NEVER did that. The major difference is the schedule has him eating when he wakes up and not right before he goes to sleep so he hopefully won't associate needing a bottle to fall asleep.

[babycaps]

Jul 22, 2016 11:01:37 GMT -5 westiemom said:

Jul 22, 2016 10:17:38 GMT -5 babycaps said:

@led , at my 2mo appt yesterday, with our pedi who trained with Dr. Weisbluth(the sleep book guy) her words were: 5-10min of crying before going in and trying again, no more naps while being held (tears). All sleep in crib. So that is what we are aiming for. dh and I decided we will not delay getting him to sleep for longer than a total of 20min crying and no more than 5-7min until 12 weeks or 3mo. Then 10-12min depending on the type of cry.
But yeah...now is the time to break the big dependencies. At 3-4mo we will do more aggressive training, up to 20-30min of crying , again depending on type of cry.
@led , westiemom

Highly recommend getting the Healthy1600 S State St, Chicago, IL 60616, United States sleep habits happy child by weissbluth.

I have been following the book and have an awesome sleeper now! She sleeps in her crib for naps (PNP at night in my room) and I just put her in and walk off and she sleeps for the most part. She sleeps all night now with 1 wake up. I'm a fan!

CORRECTION to what I typed above, as I just spoke to my pediatrician.  She said until 3months, if after 5-10min he's not calm/asleep, then do what I have to do to get him to sleep but try to make it happen IN the crib.  at 3.5-4mo THEN let it go longer.

westiemom, I'm with you.  I'm a big fan.  Also, my friend has an almost 3yr old who had a BIG regression with new baby and with big girl bed.  She's now following the "sleep rules" part of the book and she's back to her normal sleep!  I DO call this my "sleep bible" and my kindle version has ALL sorts of bookmarks and highlighted parts!

[babycaps]

P.S: westiemom, I just realized that I somehow wrote out an address that is VERY close to where I live in my previous post that you quoted. Any chance you can delete that from your quote ?
Please and thank you?

[raelien23]

No advice @led - just solidarity. We are rocking, jiggling, nursing to sleep every night. There was a point when he was super fussy every night (around 6 weeks) when all 5 s's had to be in full effect to get him to even consider closing his eyes. During the day he naps in his swing or on me, and that seems to work.

[westiemom]

Jul 22, 2016 14:49:23 GMT -5 babycaps said:

P.S: westiemom, I just realized that I somehow wrote out an address that is VERY close to where I live in my previous post that you quoted. Any chance you can delete that from your quote ?
Please and thank you?

No problem!

[ellesea]

I haven't decided if I'm going to try a dream feed tonight. I did it a few days ago and he woke up at 3 to eat and then at 5:30 he was so fussy until I finally got up. The rational me knows that was probably coincidental. So do I try again?

[ellesea]

Also when is everyone moving their lo's to their own room? He doesn't choke and gag in his sleep anymore so I'm wondering if I should move him sooner than I had planned.

[babycaps]

Jul 22, 2016 19:36:23 GMT -5 ellesea said:

I haven't decided if I'm going to try a dream feed tonight. I did it a few days ago and he woke up at 3 to eat and then at 5:30 he was so fussy until I finally got up. The rational me knows that was probably coincidental. So do I try again?

I personally wouldn't and never have.  Sleep is developmental, not "tummy-full-related".  All the pediatricians I work with (and it's A LOT of them) say dream feeds only disrupt the infant's natural sleep pattern and actually can end up in MORE wake ups.
My pediatrician is ADAMANTLY against dream feeding and the only time she says you feed overnight is for babies who are not thriving, babies who wake up demanding food prior to 4mo of age.  At 4-6mo, they should start going 8-10hrs w/o needing any food.

[twocents6708]

@led, I think it depends on the kid and your family preference. With DD, she required a lot of assistance to go to sleep including rocking, bouncing, nursing for quite a while to wind down. That lasted about a year before we night weaned and then we still rocked to sleep. We tried CIO briefly but it wasn't for us as she would escalate very quickly to the point of nearly puking. I wasn't comfortable with that at all. Having a routine helped her but she still requires wind down time and a bit of assistance from us to get to sleep some nights at age 4. I chalk it up to her temperament. DS is way easier and I can nurse him and lay him down drowsy already at 9 weeks. It's a huge difference! We still
probably won't sleep train with him even if his habits change though.

So not a lot of help for you aside from saying do what works for you and your family/baby. It might take trying different things with the schedule/routine.

[annarose]

I have been trying drowsy but awake tonight - it is resulting in a happy baby wiggling around with her feet in the air - not going to sleep at all. So frustrating. We've been like this for about an hour - so over it. ( she has fussed at points, I pick up rock alittle or nurse, she gets drowsy, put her in the crib and BAM she's awake and wiggling)

[ellesea]

Jul 22, 2016 19:54:04 GMT -5 babycaps said:

Jul 22, 2016 19:36:23 GMT -5 ellesea said:

I haven't decided if I'm going to try a dream feed tonight. I did it a few days ago and he woke up at 3 to eat and then at 5:30 he was so fussy until I finally got up. The rational me knows that was probably coincidental. So do I try again?

I personally wouldn't and never have.  Sleep is developmental, not "tummy-full-related".  All the pediatricians I work with (and it's A LOT of them) say dream feeds only disrupt the infant's natural sleep pattern and actually can end up in MORE wake ups.
My pediatrician is ADAMANTLY against dream feeding and the only time she says you feed overnight is for babies who are not thriving, babies who wake up demanding food prior to 4mo of age.  At 4-6mo, they should start going 8-10hrs w/o needing any food.

Good to know. I never did it with ds1.

[annarose]

In glad for this thread, it's gets me back motivated to have LO sleep on her own in her crib instead of rocking her into a dead sleep. I was able to finally get her alseep with chest taps last night and again this morning. So far she's been asleep for 2 hours - love when that happens!

[kateisoptimistic]

I am so behind in trying to get LO to have any kind of sleep habits, he's still falling asleep on me every time. I need to get with the program

[babycaps]

Jul 23, 2016 10:23:53 GMT -5 kateisoptimistic said:

I am so behind in trying to get LO to have any kind of sleep habits, he's still falling asleep on me every time. I need to get with the program

+1. I was HEAVILY criticized on my original m14 bmb for sleep training. To each their own! But its nice to see I'm not crazy for wanting my child to sleep more independently.

[aaemommy]

Jul 23, 2016 10:23:53 GMT -5 kateisoptimistic said:

I am so behind in trying to get LO to have any kind of sleep habits, he's still falling asleep on me every time. I need to get with the program

+1. I think he's only fallen asleep on his own a couple of times. I'm not too worried yet. He goes to sleep pretty easily and isn't dependent on one person to put him to bed. I mean he prefers me but can be put down by others. Also I usually can't get the transfer over to the crib done without at least somewhat waking him up so he does usually stir a little and go back to sleep without any help from me.

[babycaps]

Jul 23, 2016 13:53:10 GMT -5 @frenchtoast said:

We are trying crib naps today and failing big time. Nap 1 was on DH. Nap 2 was in the K'tan with me. Nap 3 hasn't happened yet. I tried for 30 minutes to get her down in the swing. DH has been in there for 20. We can do drowsy in the crib at bed time, why can't we do it at nap time??

Because daytime sleep and nighttime sleep are regulated by two different parts of the brain! Literally! And the night time sleep brain develops and adapts faster than the daytime sleep part of the brain. That's also why at night you get longer chunks of sleep!

[babycaps]

Jul 23, 2016 14:04:20 GMT -5 @frenchtoast said:

Jul 23, 2016 14:00:03 GMT -5 babycaps said:

Because daytime sleep and nighttime sleep are regulated by two different parts of the brain! Literally! And the night time sleep brain develops and adapts faster than the daytime sleep part of the brain. That's also why at night you get longer chunks of sleep!

Good to know there's a reason for it. I was hoping to see some daytime progress this weekend since we are DS/toddler free. It's hard to spend this much time putting DD to sleep during the week by myself with him around.

I'm not sure how old your lo is now, but my pedi said the following for me (our LO is 9 weeks old).  
Attempt drowsy to sleep for all naps.  Allow to cry for 5-10min.  If after that time he is not calm and falling asleep, then do whatever you need to do to get a nap in, but still try to make it happen in the crib or at least provide motionless sleep once he is asleep (swing and then stop the swing, or stroller but stop moving stroller once asleep).  She said do this until he is 3-4mo old, but most likely my 3-4, maybe 5mo, drowsy to sleep will work for naps too.  As she put it, the 5min of tears right now are "money in the bank" for later!

i dont' like to hear my baby crying for 5min, but having trained one baby to sleep, it's easier this time and sometimes he cries for FAR longer when we are in the car and he's fine after!

[babycaps]

Jul 23, 2016 14:11:22 GMT -5 @frenchtoast said:

babycaps DD will be 12 weeks on Monday.
We are trying drowsy but awake but it isn't working during the day-in the crib or swing.
The sleep consultant we used with DS told me not to let her cry it out until at least 4 months. We did CIO with checks for DS at 4.5 months and he was sleeping great in less than a week.

Yes, it's SO HARD.  We also did CIO w/ checks for DS1!  You don't have much longer before 4 mo!! I'll cross my fingers for you.  I don't think it hurts to keep trying the drowsy to sleep now, but yeah, SO time consuming!!!

[snoris]

ellesea, My goal was to try and transition I to his own bed at 2.5-3 months (the end of the 4th trimester) that's THIS WEEK! So starting Wednesday we will start supervising naps on his floor bed. We won't have him sleep the whole night there until we are super confident in his comfort & safety... maybe not even until we're sure he's strong enough to roll over... and we can afford a video monitor haha. Anyway, we're not pushing for any hard deadlines, we're just going to start trying this week & follow his lead.

@led agree with PP, personal preference & there is loads of debate & great research supporting BOTH major approaches to sleep. This is one of those things - there are many successful avenues to promoting independent sleep. Only you know the one that works best for you and your family. It's really hard to decide sometimes and I'll bet with a little exploration you'll fall into a plan that works really great!

AFM, I've been heavily influenced by a few grad classes on the topic & by my hippy dippy doula/yoga/LC friends. While I acknowledge that CIO & sleep training is a legit thing & yields successful results it is not for me & baby I. We are lucky enough not to be bound by a schedule so we can do what comes naturally without it derailing our lives. Read: I believe sleep training is necessary when babies need to conform to families with schedules. We're not one of those families and THE reason I left my career is so I could make this work. Obviously this is not everyone's cup of tea.

Anywho, here's my philosophy: cribs, bedrooms & sleep training is a newfangled thing designed for the modern world where people have multi room houses, fancy furniture & careers (thus schedules). However, babies do not have the cognition to know or care that they live in 2016, in a first world country, with parents on a schedule, with a roof, four walls, locked doors and an video baby monitor. They are programmed for survival, and to them, their best chance of survival is to be on Mom's chest. Mom's chest = protection & food. Animals eat when they're hungry, sleep when they're tired & safe. I DO believe babies NEED to be held, rocked, snuggled in order to feel safe. It makes perfect sense they sleep better when they are close to you. Since I'm lucky enough not to be bound by a schedule I'm going with what HE needs, not what I need (for him to conform to my idea of a schedule). When he's capable, he will realize the social norm for sleep (& eating & toileting etc.) & conform because it's also natural for us to conform to our social environment. When we're capable of conceptualizing it. Not now. Now babies are in survival mode. They sleep when they are tired & feel safe. Getting them to sleep when we want them to sleep is going to be a struggle. One that I don't need to experience. CIO is just not relevant when you're not sleep training. Attachment theorists have a whole lot of strong opinions against CIO that I agree with, but I'll leave those to float in my noggin' as thems is fightin' words. p.s. we can be friends and be different at the same time