Anyone with knowledge--infants being kicked out of daycare?

[brachysira]

My friend has a 14 month-year old, and he recently started daycare.  He keeps pulling hair, hitting, and similar and they're probably going to kick him out.  She is busy and I SAH, so she wants advice, but I don't know what to tell her.  Kids that old don't really have much understanding of empathy right?  I know they don't teach him these behaviors at home, but he was at an in-home daycare before with a couple older boys, so maybe he learned bad behavior there.  When we had a playdate with him when he was about 12 months he grabbed on to M unpleasantly and often threw heavy blocks or other items and I thought his behavior was not very nice, but I thought maybe it was just a boy thing and that we'd just wait to see them again until he outgrew his aggressive behaviors.  He does not like to eat and is in danger of being diagnosed with failure to thrive and walked on the late side, but he goes to a daycare that specializes in mixed on-target development with special needs kids classrooms so I was hoping they would suggest he get an developmental evaluation if he needs one.  Apparently they're just going to ask him to leave...

[ryn]

Unfortunately in an environment where there are multiple toddlers being cared for by only one or two adults, the safety of the group is a higher priority than addressing special behavioural situations. Some childcare centers are equipped to manage it - especially with older children who can more easily avoid a child who is acting violently - but in toddler classes, where most children are not expecting to be hit or harmed by others, we cannot expect those other toddlers to know to move or avoid a child who is acting aggressively. A special needs center does typically make special arrangements for medical conditions - but those typically require that the child has been evaluated, diagnosed, and has a plan of action in place. The parents generally need to be proactive and get involved in managing and communicating the child's condition and needs. The center is responsible for the well being of all the children in their care, and they cannot have other children put at risk - so there needs to be a plan in place for preventing aggressive behaviour, and that cannot be left entirely up to the center. If they are communicating these incidents to the mother and she is not working with them to explain his needs or how to compensate and avoid these situations, and if the center's standard approach to redirection and management are not effective, they may not have any choice but to ask that she withdraw him..

[expatmama]

Where we live we have a daycare guarantee for kids over 1 year, so kids cannot be 'kicked out'. But also each class has 2 teachers with early education degrees and the idea is that they are good at working with the kids in groups. In DS1's class there was an incident with a 'biter' that was overly aggressive (it was a girl), so they brought in a resource psychologist who worked with the teachers to create a better environment and react properly. This was a success and after a few months the kids were friends for years to come.

That said, I think the focus is always on the group's well being. I agree with Ryn, there needs to be collaboration and communication. And if it doesn't work, it may not be the place for the kid and it is better for everyone if he finds a place where he is happier. DS2 is a little aggressive for his age, he doesn't hit, but he does like to pinch and he can be a bit feisty. He is often grouped with the kids about 6 months -1 year older (they divide the class into small activity groups each day) and he shows a lot more respect for 'the big kids', than with the kids his own age, when they divide the group for activities.

Some days when they are short staffed they even send him into the big kids classroom with his brother and he thrives with the added responsibility, loves to sit at the table in a big kids chair and follows everything the big kids do when it comes to circle time and other activities. He does not dare to try to pinch any of those kids!

[cinnasugar]

Coming from the mother of an 'aggressive' kid, your friend has my sympathy. At 14 months, it is likely not anyone's fault that the kid is doing this - this is probably his way of communicating and expressing himself. That said, I can see Ryn's point. We never got to a point with DD where there was danger of kicking her out (she was a biter), but we did sit down with the school and try a few ideas to see what would help. I really think that what expatmama is saying is neat. As the parent of a biter, you constantly feel bad and it was hard to be like, "I don't know why she's doing this, obviously we don't bite at home." It would have been great to have a professional's help without having to seek it out on our own after we'd been told her behavior is not 'normal.'

Anyway, maybe the kid would actually be better off at a place where the staff is more able/willing to work with him and the parents to come up with some ideas as to why it is occurring, and what they can do to change it.

[brachysira]

Well, the problem is that she is in a long-wait list urban area that she doesn't know well so they probably won't find another daycare. She had a nanny lined up and a spot opened at this place right before she moved. She is definitely pretty clueless and not into kids, and so she probably needs some ideas, if there are any, about how to work on his behavior at home. I told her that if he got kicked out, he'd probably do really well with a nanny. I just sort of suspect that he might need an ASD eval or, at the very least, would benefit from some feeding therapy, but I don't really think I can say this and I think the daycare should mention getting some sort of evaluation. It seems like daycares are always recommending that sort of thing, so either she's not hearing them, or they're just too worried about his impact on the class to get any further.

[brachysira]

Well, I don't really spend a lot of time with him, but I just noticed some M-chat behaviors in him...like they say his comfort item is a spoon and he is obsessed with light switches--although he is still quite young. I think he should be evaluated mostly because he has pretty much zero interest in eating and barely feeds himself (seems to me like it's kind of a physical struggle to pick up some things), and their pedi just tells them to count calories and give vitamins. They are always stressing about whether he will meet the calorie requirement for the day, and he apparently doesn't really like to drink either... I just think they should be seeking some clinical help beyond the pedi. I certainly don't know if anyone should suspect ASD, but I just thought some expert eyes on him would help, and it seems like they aren't going to suggest anything. The daycare is really concerned about getting him to drink from an open cup, but he just pours the liquid up his nose and chokes. It seems to me like if you have a kid who is pretty much starving, you'd worry less about things like that...

[expatmama]

Feb 13, 2015 15:24:17 GMT -5 cinnasugar said:

Coming from the mother of an 'aggressive' kid, your friend has my sympathy. At 14 months, it is likely not anyone's fault that the kid is doing this - this is probably his way of communicating and expressing himself. That said, I can see Ryn's point. We never got to a point with DD where there was danger of kicking her out (she was a biter), but we did sit down with the school and try a few ideas to see what would help. I really think that what expatmama is saying is neat. As the parent of a biter, you constantly feel bad and it was hard to be like, "I don't know why she's doing this, obviously we don't bite at home." It would have been great to have a professional's help without having to seek it out on our own after we'd been told her behavior is not 'normal.'

Anyway, maybe the kid would actually be better off at a place where the staff is more able/willing to work with him and the parents to come up with some ideas as to why it is occurring, and what they can do to change it.

It really was the optimal solution for everyone involved as it took the pressure and blame off of the teachers and parents and made the parents of the bitten kids feel reassured that something was being done.

But it sounds like a lot more may be going on here, hope they find a good solution. Never thought about comfort objects as signs of spectrum disorder before. DS2 spent a good month running around with a Pez container and screaming if anyone tried to take it away (he never had any candy in it though). We went with it because I am a firm believer in picking your battles.

[brachysira]

Okay, good, I will tell her to try to work with the daycare to find solutions, ask them if they can get a behavior person to weigh in on the classroom situation because that helped someone else (not mentioning ASD or anything), and see if she can find another daycare since others sound like they can better handle this. My personal advice will also be to tell her to tell them that they need to lay off the cup pushing. I mean, I'd be bitey if someone made M pour water up her nose, and she doesn't even have a drinking aversion.

[dc2london]

Feb 13, 2015 13:17:07 GMT -5 brachysira said:

My friend has a 14 month-year old, and he recently started daycare.  He keeps pulling hair, hitting, and similar and they're probably going to kick him out.  She is busy and I SAH, so she wants advice, but I don't know what to tell her.  Kids that old don't really have much understanding of empathy right?  I know they don't teach him these behaviors at home, but he was at an in-home daycare before with a couple older boys, so maybe he learned bad behavior there.  When we had a playdate with him when he was about 12 months he grabbed on to M unpleasantly and often threw heavy blocks or other items and I thought his behavior was not very nice, but I thought maybe it was just a boy thing and that we'd just wait to see them again until he outgrew his aggressive behaviors.  He does not like to eat and is in danger of being diagnosed with failure to thrive and walked on the late side, but he goes to a daycare that specializes in mixed on-target development with special needs kids classrooms so I was hoping they would suggest he get an developmental evaluation if he needs one.  Apparently they're just going to ask him to leave...

Not really wild about all the stereotyping of little boys here, I'll be honest.

[dc2london]

FTR, the two playdates that we have left early bc another kid was beating up on or harming my kid, both instigators were girls. Aggression and rough play are not just boy things.
/sensitive

[itsmetarheel]

Feb 13, 2015 17:00:06 GMT -5 dc2london said:

FTR, the two playdates that we have left early bc another kid was beating up on or harming my kid, both instigators were girls. Aggression and rough play are not just boy things.
/sensitive

Yep, so glad you said this. My son is constantly being beat up on by his older (and smaller!) female cousin. DS is pretty easygoing. I think all of these things are attributed much more to the child's temperament rather than their gender.

[brachysira]

Sorry. I am usually the last person to be sexist. It's just that my daughter is naughty is all kinds of ways but not rough, and I have just heard so many times that little boys play rough. So I was pretty surprised by his behavior at our playdate but his mom just acted like it was normal, so I kind of just figured maybe that's how he plays with the boys at his in-home daycare and it was just a boy thing rather than a very naughty thing.