Salary negotiations - how much room is there?

[traveltheworld]

Through a recruiter, I applied for an Associate General Counsel position with a big company.  The job itself is amazing.  I don't have an offer yet, but the company just sent me, directly, the proposed compensation, and I'm quite taken aback.  I'm being offered a Senior Legal Counsel position (which is not what I applied for), and the proposed compensation is quite a bit lower than what I thought.  When the recruiter first talked to me, she gave me what the proposed compensation would be like; and had it been anything like what the company has just sent me, I probably wouldn't have applied.

I just emailed the recruiter, asking her to call me.

Having now gone through 4 rounds of interviews and turned my mind to moving to this position, I was very excited and had mentally worked myself into a state of really wanting to take it.  I "think" I can get over the Associate GC vs. Senior Legal Counsel thing, since it's just a title and they have a flat organizational structure with multiple AGCs and Senior Legal Counsels, and I think I may be willing to come down a bit on compensation.  But how hard should I push back on compensation?  I haven't applied for a job in over 8 years and have never negotiated salaries, so I'm at a total loss.  Any advice would be appreciated.

Oh, in terms of where things are at - the GC told me that if we can come to an agreement on compensation, then I'll meet with the executive team next week; and if that goes well, then I'd get an offer.

[ss265]

I've negotiated salaries before but I need more information that I can't tell from your post. 

- How much lower is the compensation vs. what you thought it would be?
- How does the compensation compare to what you are currently making? If it's lower, are there any benefits to the new job that make up for it?
- How does the title compare to your current title? Is it a step up, step down, or a lateral move?
- Did you get a sense for how much they liked you, how badly they need to fill the position? I'm trying to get an idea for how much negotiating power you have.

Edited: Sorry, my previous post was a little blunt. Tried to give more context to my request. 

[traveltheworld]

ss265, thanks for responding!

To answer your questions:
1. It's 10% lower than the lowest range that the recruiter told me, and about 35% lower than the highest range.
2. It's exactly what I make now in terms of base salary and base bonus, but I have a variable bonus component - they do too, so it's hard to compare that part.
3. I guess it's a lateral move. I'm currently a senior associate at Big Law, so Senior Legal Counsel would be lateral?
4. I think they really liked me. The recruiter told me that they are only bringing back 2 people for the next round, to fill 2 positions.

I guess the weirdest part is that I know that they were hiring for the Associate General Counsel position and the Senior Legal Counsel position, but I didn't apply for the Senior Legal Counsel position - I applied for the AGC role! That's what I'll try to clear up with the recruiter tomorrow.

The other thing is that they are not located in the same city as where I live now. Originally I was unwilling to relocaate without a significant pay increase, but now I'm not so sure. I really like the company, the people, and the job.

[helenahhandbasket]

It's absolutely ok to push back.

I'd start with making it clear the compensation is not what you expected. Say the recruiter gave you a range of xx-yy and you were expecting to be somewhere in that range.

Ask directly if there is any room to negotiate. There might not be, but if you take this job you will forever be wondering, I think.

Good luck!

[frozenpeas]

One reason I can see for the difference in title is that they like you, but they don't think you are quite qualified for the higher position. I'm not sure if that's the case here, but it's something I've seen happen. Some job postings even state that the exact position/title/pay may vary depending on experience/qualifications.

I'm not sure if this is helpful, but if you still want the position, you can negotiate for them to cover your moving expenses and maybe a short period of living expenses until you get settled. This can be regardless of whether your salary negotiations work out (which helenahhandbasket & ss265 can help with!).

[indyrowergirl]

Another vote for push back on salary and I'd also push for the title. Think of it this way - do you want to fight to get promoted to AGC in a few years or are you ready to do it now?

You're getting low-balled big time (or the recruiter is crappy and set your expectations too high). If the recruiter is external, I'd be super frank with them. If they're internal, you'll have to tread more lightly, but I'd still get my point across that this isn't even close to what you expected.

It all depends on how bad you want out of your current job/how bad you want to move. Do you have any other options opening up?

ETA: +1 for asking for a relo package as well!

[emmyg65]

Ask them about both the title and the salary. Just a polite, "We had initially talked about Associate General Counsel at $xxx, but this offer is different. What happened?" Then depending on the answer, you can at least negotiate for a larger salary. Since it's just a 10% difference, I'd probably at least ask for the bottom of the range they first told you.

[mommyatty]

Push back. There is A LOT of room to negotiate. Especially if they are deciding whether to fill it as a senior counsel vs AGC job, they have plenty of room to move.

If it makes you feel more comfortable negotiating, think of it and message it this way: as a lawyer, your job is to negotiate deals. You wouldn't be giving them a very high opinion of your abilities if you didn't negotiate for yourself.

[ss265]

I agree with frozenpeas - my guess is that they decided that you were better qualified for the lower position. Read both job descriptions and point out that you do meet all the qualifications of the ACG position to help your case.

Do they know how much you make now? Do you think that is what led to the initial offer? My general policy is to always get a salary increase when changing jobs - you are moving to a company where there are more unknowns and financially you should be compensated for that. I've hired several employees over the last year and we always try to give them a small salary bump (5%-10%). I had one candidate agree to our initial salary range and post interview asked for 50% more which was a big turn off. Your case is different though because it sounds like they are low balling you and offering you a salary lower than the initial range.

Definitely bring up that you have to relocate. Be enthusiastic but try not to show how excited you are. If other components of the benefits are lower (401k, vacation days) bring them up to help your case for more salary. If you have been in your current title for a while (2+ years) I would push for the higher title. Like indyrowergirl said, are you willing to wait a few years for the promotion or do you want it now? Good luck!

[saraml13]

It's definitely expected that you'll negotiate for compensation. Straight out of business school, I received what I felt was a low offer from the company I had interned with. I didn't have another firm offer, but I was still able to get 15% higher salary than their offer, and a bump in the signing bonus.

Just yesterday, I was contacted by a recruiter about a job and told that the range was $XX-XX, with some flexibility, which seemed low for the job description. She contacted a friend of mine about the same job and knew from when he had talked to her about a different job last year that he was already making more than that, so she told him that the job paid 15% more than the top of the range she told me.

I would tell the recruiter what you said here, that you were only looking to relocate for a significant title and salary bump and asked what happened from the initial guidance she gave you.

I know you are excited about this job, but you will never be in a stronger position to negotiate than you are now. I agree with PPs that you have more leverage to go after the title you want now than if you take the job and then hope for a promotion.

[traveltheworld]

Ok, I talked to the recruiter. Apparently that's how they do it. They put up the profile as AGC because that's what they expect me to do, but they apparently never bring in anyone as AGC right off the bat. You go jn as senior legal counsel, and then move to AGC within a short time frame. Apparently the GC feels that this is best way to set people up for success, so that the business groups are not all going at you as if you were AGC when you are new and still have no idea of how things work.

The other candidate is also being offered senior legal counsel, even though we all applied for AGC.

The recruiter said there should be some room to negotiate, but not much.

I'm going to call the GC on Monday and hopefully confirm what the recruiter told me and see if I can move the salary up a bit.

[frozenpeas]

What? That's nuts & at least a little deceptive. It sounds like a total bait and switch--are you ok with that explanation?

If you decide to move forward, I'd get it written into the offer letter that you'll be promoted to AGC in x months at a salary of $y.

[traveltheworld]

Feb 25, 2017 15:12:48 GMT -5 frozenpeas said:

What? That's nuts & at least a little deceptive. It sounds like a total bait and switch--are you ok with that explanation?

If you decide to move forward, I'd get it written into the offer letter that you'll be promoted to AGC in x months at a salary of $y.

I know! It seems very odd to me. But I'll see what the GC says.

[mommyatty]

That's effed up. We don't ever advertise an AGC position. We go directly to a recruiter for a targeted campaign. The job I'm currently interviewing for has been advertised as a senior attorney, and the plan is to build the bench to become the AGC and eventually the GC. But they've put it out there as how they plan to hire. I would be skeptical of the long range plan except that the recruiter they are working with rarely if ever works to fill positions below the AVP level. I know this because my company uses them.

I'm hoping the GC has a good story to tell because it sounds like the recruiter or the employer is kind of shady. In any event, negotiate the hell out of it.

[2chatter]

traveltheworld - I had a CO client that I was forced to do that for - and it WAS shady and was untrue. People interviewed for a lead position, took and IC role and the mobility wasn't there. So that's where I would ask - what percent come in and move to AGC, and in what time frame? Make them give you actual real time bound numbers.

And for $$ - for current job I asked for a serious bump and got it - if you know what's in line for industry and role, don't talk yourself out of a reasonable number.