End of workday and 3 year olds?

[GlitchSQ1]

Hi, I've been lurking for a bit and would like to jump in. Quickly about me: Married mother of 2 girls, 3 and almost 1. DH and I both work somewhat flexible jobs, although he is in grad school on top of it.

I'm having trouble with our 3 year old right now. The biggest issue being that weekdays just seem awful. After work, I usually have to pick up both girls and we do not get home until close to 6:30. I cook ahead of time so we just reheat from the fridge, but we start getting our 3 year old ready for bed around 7:30. And that routine also isn't any fun. We usually have a temper tantrum every night. We have to start the routine so early because getting ready takes forever.

She is a bit of a control freak (apple didn't fall far) so that contributes to the tantrums. We have tried 1-2-3 Magic (but she starts the tantrum the minute we say "1."), we have tried a timer, but she starts to wail if we set it,


I feel like I'm not spending any time with my older daughter, that all I'm doing 5 days a week is ordering her around ("put on your socks," "time for bath," etc.) and that she seems to be feeling it too. I'd like to play games with her after dinner, but because she takes so long to get ready for bed, we just don't have the time.

Any tips on how to manage our evenings better so I can build in "fun time" with her? Or ways to make the getting ready for bed more fun? I just hate the daily tantrum!

[pitta12]

First, age 3 is rough. It is an age of nonsensical power struggles and really what you are seeing is totally normal.

What does the bedtime routine look like? You say it takes a long time but not clear on where the trouble spots are.

Also, I get sick of hearing myself issue commands 24/7 and I'm sure it irritates the kids, too, so periodically I do the "action without words" thing where instead of saying "put on your socks" I will just get some socks and hand them to the kid. For whatever reason that seems to invite less resistance.

[litzo27]

I have a 3.5 year old so ... yeah... We get home around 6 and eat dinner at 7 or 7:15. I find that having this hour is critical as the boys can watch one 20 minute cartoon and we can play together for a half hour or so. We are done with dinner by 7:45-55 and then it's bath time. They have a choice: a quick shower and then some more time to play/read or a longer bath where they can have some fun in the bath. The 3 year old usually chooses to join the baby in the bath and that's some more time we spend together. THe 6 year old either takes a shower or if he wants a bath I take the baby out quickly and he gets in with his brother. Then it's PJ and about 10-15 minutes to read a book. Lights out is 8:50 and the 3 year old doesn't even fall asleep that quickly since he still naps for 2 hours. When he drops his nap I'll try to have lights out a bit earlier - maybe 8:30-40.
I think choices are great for tantrums. Making sure to have some down time. Also in the case of a tantrum I leave the room or move him out of the room - removing the audience usually finishes the tantrum.

[sandandsea]

I'm with you. DS is 3 and we get home around 6:30. He helps me cook dinner as soon as we get home and really enjoys it. Somewhere in there, he usually has a meltdown. Depending on why he's imploding, we address it differently - give him a snack if he's hungry, walk away if it's nonsensical, timeout (if he hits or something as part of the meltdown). I also try to give him jobs he can do to help as he loves this and it is nice to have help. He sets the table for us, feeds the dog, puts away his lunchbox, gets the mail with me, etc.

We start bedtime around 8 and he's asleep before 10. Bedtime includes bath (sometimes), him putting on his PJs (he can do it himself and we're trying to get him more independent), playing for 6 minutes (we set a 2 minute timer and he gets it 3 times), last drink of water, brushing teeth, going to the bathroom, laying in bed, reading a million books, kisses, and putting him back in bed 45 times. My child hates sleep and doesn't want to miss out on anything. This is our struggle.

[theborg7of9]

I downloaded a kids timer which has really helped with transitions for my 3 year old. I also was just reading 123 magic and it says you're not supposed to count to get them to do something. It's to get them to stop doing something.

[sandandsea]

Do 3 year olds stop napping at some point? DS still needs a nap (gets fussy after lunch) and easily sleeps 2 hours. I think this may be part of our bedtime/not sleeping through the night struggles. But, he's at daycare 5 days a week and the entire class sleeps 2 hours.

[GlitchSQ1]

First to clarify: theborg7of9,yep, we only begin counting if she's doing things like 'meowing' at us instead of answering in words. Or continuing to hold her toothbrush away from us. The minute we begin to count, she starts to wail and goes full on tantrum. The kids timer might be worth looking into though-thanks!

She is,blessedly sometimes, really into sleep and still naps at daycare for 2 hours and the same amount at home on weekends.

Like you, sandandsea, I try to include her with the dinner routine which she really likes. The only thing is they are now 'her' jobs, so she gets upset if anybody else feeds the dog or sets the table. Sure kid, all yours! Rereading your comment, I will also try the playing timer of 2 minutes 3 times. That seems possible.

The upside/downside is the independence means she wants to Do.Everything.Herself. And that came in super handy on nights when DH was gone and I had to nurse the baby. Now though it means I can't do anything for her or she throws the tantrum.

[GlitchSQ1]

thirdtimemomma, I forgot to mention that she gets up at 6:30 in the morning. The morning routine is also an issue. It takes her an hour to get ready, but getting her up later doesn't get her to move faster, and I feel bad enough as it is waking her up from a dead sleep at 6:30.

[GlitchSQ1]

privacy, so far she loves charts but she hasn't quite gotten what they mean. She loves getting to put stickers in the boxes, although the first time I tried to put them on her chart she only wanted to wear them.

Alright, I think I am going to have to try to move the bed time routine later (which always includes a bed time story) and just put in some automatic play time after dinner, even if only starting it for 10 minutes. Maybe if I use a kids timer during the playtime session I can use it also in the bedtime routine to make it seem more game-like?

We try to shoot for her in bed between 8:30 and 9:00. Nights that go later have made her extra crabby the next day.

It's just so maddening that 1 night it will take 5 minutes to get ready and then the next month it's just tantrums. Sigh. I wish logic worked on 3 year olds. 20 minutes of you whining < 20 minutes of Candyland, no?

[theborg7of9]

For my son, it actually works better to set the timer just for a minute or two. At first I tried a10 minute timer for bath time, but he lost attention. Now I just do a one minute timer when we have one minute left.

Eta: I was typing at the same time as the post above. Not disagreeing with her.

[2chatter]

Would she enjoy the control of a magnet board in which she can order her evening or morning tasks? Melissa and Doug have one with pictures. She could decide the order of things, and then she has to execute. My slow poke also enjoyed "timer races" during her independent streak - could she get dressed before the timer went off? No? One book we were going to read went back on the shelf....(and I mean physically - she chose books, then when she failed to meet a timeline lost books).

And 123 Magic will totally work if you ignore her like she isn't even there. I got stuck where you are too, and the ped asked me how it was working and I said it wasn't. He asked me if I was following through and I said yes but she tantrumed. He said I wasn't following the book and he was soooo right. The second the tantrum starts say "two, three" then place her in time out and ignore her like she's invisible. Within a week my middle had figured out that one meant something, and screaming meant something sooner.

Three sucks, four is worse, and then five they start to improve!

[sandandsea]

Feb 18, 2015 14:11:42 GMT -5 GlitchSQ1 said:

First to clarify: theborg7of9,yep, we only begin counting if she's doing things like 'meowing' at us instead of answering in words. Or continuing to hold her toothbrush away from us. The minute we begin to count, she starts to wail and goes full on tantrum. The kids timer might be worth looking into though-thanks!

She is,blessedly sometimes, really into sleep and still naps at daycare for 2 hours and the same amount at home on weekends.

Like you, sandandsea, I try to include her with the dinner routine which she really likes. The only thing is they are now 'her' jobs, so she gets upset if anybody else feeds the dog or sets the table. Sure kid, all yours! Rereading your comment, I will also try the playing timer of 2 minutes 3 times. That seems possible.

The upside/downside is the independence means she wants to Do.Everything.Herself. And that came in super handy on nights when DH was gone and I had to nurse the baby. Now though it means I can't do anything for her or she throws the tantrum.

I think we have 3 year old twins.  Seriously...she sounds a lot like DS.  I keep reminding myself that the independence and willful spirit will be a blessing when he's older, it's just harder for us to parent now.

[anewadventure]

i agree it is a tough age. i think it's great that you recognize that part of her struggles are that she is a "control freak" type personality. i see that you say that charts haven't worked quite yet and that you wish logic worked. i would stick with the charts a little longer or try a format that is different than stickers.

honestly, i would still present the logic, even if it is ineffective, as part of the process of giving her choices. if she has choices, she can feel like she has more control. i also think incorporating more mommy and me playtime should be part of this choice process and not necessarily an automatic thing, especially since you say that a little less sleep can definitely make her crabby. combined with a PPs suggestion to couch things positively, hopefully something will get through.

what about adding some questions or brainstorming? so she comes up with solutions herself? for example, you could say, "it would be fun if we had some time to read an extra book or play a quick game after dinner but before bed. how do you think we can make your bedtime routine faster so that we can do this? (if that's too vague, just be more specific. how can we make brushing our teeth go faster? etc etc) sometimes you'd be amazed at the answers they come up with themselves.

not all kids can handle these ideas at the same age but i hope you get some good ideas from the thread that can help you out.

[ladylonghorn]

I agree with everyone who says 3 is hard (I have a 3 kids 9, 6, and 3) overall. I would recommend familiarizing yourself with Love and Logic. I find when I do it consistently, it works really well not only with my 3 year old, but the old ones.

[helenahhandbasket]

I have a 3 YO and get home around 7:15/ 7:30 so I feel you on the rushed evenings. I pick her up from my mom's house and have about a 20 minute drive home, so I use that time to catch up with her. It's not much, but we will sing songs, play games like "what color is that car?" and "can you find a truck/ bus/ bicycle?"

It's pretty lame but, it makes me feel at least a little connected to her. We do also do a nightly bath where I read to her as she "washes" herself.

We do still have tantrums from time to time (last night was a rough one) but it's the age. I wish there were more hours in the day!

[GlitchSQ1]

helenahhandbasket, i do try to talk to herin the car and that is definitely the best time of the evening. Although in an effort to talk to her I keep teaching her about driving rules: she looks for cars with blinkers on now.

anewadventure, i really like your idea of brainstorming and will have to give it a try.

2chatter, the magnet board is another good thing to think about and I like the idea of her picking but sticking with it. I need to figure out a better way to do the timer since she flips right now if I set it. I tried the race the timer, and it worked for a week until she lost. she hates losing so much she has gone straight to hate the timer. Forgot about that section of 123 Magic with the tantrums. Will also have to redo that too.

Thank you so much ladies for all your suggestions! DH and I have been at our wits end trying to figure something out and it makes me so pleased to have different strategies we hadn't thought of.

[dashofreality]

I think you already got really good advice, but I would also add I find that a 10 minute "DD (name) time" really seemed to help us. It is some time every night that each kid gets my 100% undivided attention and we play what they want to play. Kids are different so it might be good to do it shortly after you get home to quickly reconnect or it might be a good carrot to use before bedtime.