Questions about coping for ASD

[kristin]

C is 5 years old and in the half day special needs pre-k through the school district. He is integrating into the mainstream pre-k during his time at school. He is mainstreaming for kinder next year. His special needs pre-k teacher brought up that an issue he will have next year. It is 1. wanting to do things first ahead of everyone else and 2. not getting what he wants when he wants it. We can sabotage 1 and 2 at home because he has 2 sisters. However school is a different environment. Any suggestions on how to help him cope with the future situations we know are coming? 

[hopecounts]

Have you tried social stories?
Is he getting any social skills therapy? Marcia G. Winner is great.
If you are sabotaging at home there's only so much more you can do.
I'd probably let this be the school's problem and use it to advocate for more in his IEP around this.
Better he deal with it in kindy when adjustment issues are expected from all kids.

[mack]

My daughter has always been in mainstream Pre-K. That said, we didn't know she had ASD until like two days ago. But she has struggled with the "not getting what she wants" for a long time. It does cause her a lot of issues in school. I think the behavioral therapy that he is going to get it invaluable.

Basically, K is an an mainstream classroom. She has special educators that kind of hang out with her and coach her through interactions. So they are there to help her work through these roadblocks. So like if she is playing with another kid and it's not going the way that she thinks it should, melt down ensues. The teachers coach her to help her cope with these feelings and resolve the meltdown.

So now at home, when her sister does something she doesn't like, I hear her doing the self talk that she is getting at school.

Like she is starting to be able to talk herself down sometimes.

[funchicken]

I think sabotaging at home will help with those same behaviors in school, and the teachers should be working on it, too. My DD (ADHD, SPD) really struggled with rigidity in pre-k. We sabotaged all the time. We still do if she starts getting rigid around things now.

[mrsbuttinski]

Feb 28, 2015 19:22:56 GMT -5 kristin said:

C is 5 years old and in the half day special needs pre-k through the school district. He is integrating into the mainstream pre-k during his time at school. He is mainstreaming for kinder next year. His special needs pre-k teacher brought up that an issue he will have next year. It is 1. wanting to do things first ahead of everyone else and 2. not getting what he wants when he wants it. We can sabotage 1 and 2 at home because he has 2 sisters. However school is a different environment. Any suggestions on how to help him cope with the future situations we know are coming? 

I didn't jump on this yesterday because I wanted to lose the snark, but it's not fading so I may as well wade in.

I'm sort of side-eyeing this teacher. Because the whole "me, me, me! I go first!" is very common among these kids. Sometimes it's the kid who needs to be the one to turn on the lights, or open the door or get out of the car- it's all part of the ritualistic behavior and anxious need to control thing. I would expect this would be a BTDT issue for a well qualified teacher.

And she's right, it can be a problem. In an ASD classroom you have competing kids needing to indulge this; in a mainstream setting there's less competition, but there's a social cost because it is off-putting to peers who see it as odd, annoying and babyish. 

Which begs the question-  why is this not one of his IEP goals? Maybe it wasn't seen as an issue months ago when his IEP was written, but now it's something that needs working on in school- so perhaps some goals and services around this would be appropriate.

The thing is, you can't replicate the classroom even with siblings at home. Plus there's the whole issue with children on spectrum having a difficult time globalizing a skill to a different venue or set of circumstances.

Often when parents sabotage they do so with babysteps that maintain fairness- first DS gets a turn, then DD1 and so on. While that teaches him to wait his turn- an important skill at this age, it doesn't teach him to be OK when his sister gets 2 turns and he doesn't even get one. You could inadvertently be making him more rigid and hypervigilant about fairness rather than more resilient when things just aren't.

Deliberate sabotage can help; best to start with low ticket items and build up to higher stakes issues.

MGW's Social Thinking programs, especially The Incredible Flexible You can start kids onto the path of being OK when things don't go as expected or desired and give them appropriate tools and scripts to use to preserve their dignity among mainstream peers. Thinking About You Thinking About Me teaches the concept that peers are judging based on behavior and that a child has the power through choosing appropriate behavior to create his reputation.

DS did a lot of CBT to help him reframe dysfunctional thinking and reduce his overall anxiety levels. There's almost always an anxiety piece to this.

I'd schedule an IEP meeting to have goals around this addressed in school which is where he will need the skill next year. Certainly you should be backing them up at home, but for a school issue- they should be doing the heavy lifting and taking the lead. Another piece of the IEP to consider is itinerant support and ASD training for teachers. The way I read this, your DS's special education teacher comes off clueless.

When teachers were stymied about behaviors with DS, I turfed them to DS's psychologist to come up with a plan. Does he see someone outside of school for behavior mods/therapy?

[kristin]

Mar 1, 2015 13:04:35 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

Feb 28, 2015 19:22:56 GMT -5 kristin said:

C is 5 years old and in the half day special needs pre-k through the school district. He is integrating into the mainstream pre-k during his time at school. He is mainstreaming for kinder next year. His special needs pre-k teacher brought up that an issue he will have next year. It is 1. wanting to do things first ahead of everyone else and 2. not getting what he wants when he wants it. We can sabotage 1 and 2 at home because he has 2 sisters. However school is a different environment. Any suggestions on how to help him cope with the future situations we know are coming? 

I didn't jump on this yesterday because I wanted to lose the snark, but it's not fading so I may as well wade in.

It's ok. I remember you from the bump boards.

I'm sort of side-eyeing this teacher. Because the whole "me, me, me! I go first!" is very common among these kids. Sometimes it's the kid who needs to be the one to turn on the lights, or open the door or get out of the car- it's all part of the ritualistic behavior and anxious need to control thing. I would expect this would be a BTDT issue for a well qualified teacher.

She pointed it out as something he will struggle with next year. I figured since my oldest is neurotypical and had some of the same behaviors that it was par for the course. What spawned the comment was that the mainstream Prek teacher introduced a new center and C got upset that he wasn't first. 

And she's right, it can be a problem. In an ASD classroom you have competing kids needing to indulge this; in a mainstream setting there's less competition, but there's a social cost because it is off-putting to peers who see it as odd, annoying and babyish. 

Which begs the question-  why is this not one of his IEP goals? Maybe it wasn't seen as an issue months ago when his IEP was written, but now it's something that needs working on in school- so perhaps some goals and services around this would be appropriate.

I will look over the IEP and see if this was a goal that I missed. Otherwise we are about to alter his to add OT services. In addition to that, I am requesting another one before the end of the school year to talk about his placement at his home school. 

The thing is, you can't replicate the classroom even with siblings at home. Plus there's the whole issue with children on spectrum having a difficult time globalizing a skill to a different venue or set of circumstances.

Often when parents sabotage they do so with babysteps that maintain fairness- first DS gets a turn, then DD1 and so on. While that teaches him to wait his turn- an important skill at this age, it doesn't teach him to be OK when his sister gets 2 turns and he doesn't even get one. You could inadvertently be making him more rigid and hypervigilant about fairness rather than more resilient when things just aren't.

I do what I can to get all three kids to learn that "you get what you get and you don't throw a fit."

Deliberate sabotage can help; best to start with low ticket items and build up to higher stakes issues.

MGW's Social Thinking programs, especially The Incredible Flexible You can start kids onto the path of being OK when things don't go as expected or desired and give them appropriate tools and scripts to use to preserve their dignity among mainstream peers. Thinking About You Thinking About Me teaches the concept that peers are judging based on behavior and that a child has the power through choosing appropriate behavior to create his reputation.

DS did a lot of CBT to help him reframe dysfunctional thinking and reduce his overall anxiety levels. There's almost always an anxiety piece to this.

He is not currently receiving any social skills programs. Only what is reinforced by the special needs teacher. I will ask about that at his IEP. 

I'd schedule an IEP meeting to have goals around this addressed in school which is where he will need the skill next year. Certainly you should be backing them up at home, but for a school issue- they should be doing the heavy lifting and taking the lead. Another piece of the IEP to consider is itinerant support and ASD training for teachers. The way I read this, your DS's special education teacher comes off clueless.

When teachers were stymied about behaviors with DS, I turfed them to DS's psychologist to come up with a plan. Does he see someone outside of school for behavior mods/therapy?

He does not receive outside therapy at this time. I do get a lot of direction from my best friend that is an ABA therapist. 

My biggest thing is that I want to support him in the ways that he needs. If they are working on something at school we reinforce at home. I figured I would start thinking about this potential issue. His home school principal doesn't like to deal with kids with special needs. The principal is quick to reassign them to one of the other elementary schools nearby with a dedicated developmental department. Rumor is she is leaving soon, but I am concerned with C's future at this school. 

On a different note, C has become increasingly emotional to any type of correction, be it "come sit down" or "please don't run". If anything remotely critical is said he shuts downs or starts crying. Any suggestions on how to handle that? 

[mrsbuttinski]

Mar 1, 2015 13:58:50 GMT -5 kristin said:

Mar 1, 2015 13:04:35 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

I didn't jump on this yesterday because I wanted to lose the snark, but it's not fading so I may as well wade in.

It's ok. I remember you from the bump boards.

I'm sort of side-eyeing this teacher. Because the whole "me, me, me! I go first!" is very common among these kids. Sometimes it's the kid who needs to be the one to turn on the lights, or open the door or get out of the car- it's all part of the ritualistic behavior and anxious need to control thing. I would expect this would be a BTDT issue for a well qualified teacher.

She pointed it out as something he will struggle with next year. I figured since my oldest is neurotypical and had some of the same behaviors that it was par for the course. What spawned the comment was that the mainstream Prek teacher introduced a new center and C got upset that he wasn't first. 

Was your older child still this way at five? Does the teacher see this as part of a pattern or is it more of a one off? Sometimes kids on spectrum  do what other kids do- the difference is frequency, duration and intensity. Even if your older kid did this from time to time, maybe the younger does it a lot more often in school. Or maybe he really flips out or can't get settled back down. It's worth a conversation.

And she's right, it can be a problem. In an ASD classroom you have competing kids needing to indulge this; in a mainstream setting there's less competition, but there's a social cost because it is off-putting to peers who see it as odd, annoying and babyish. 

Which begs the question-  why is this not one of his IEP goals? Maybe it wasn't seen as an issue months ago when his IEP was written, but now it's something that needs working on in school- so perhaps some goals and services around this would be appropriate.

I will look over the IEP and see if this was a goal that I missed. Otherwise we are about to alter his to add OT services. In addition to that, I am requesting another one before the end of the school year to talk about his placement at his home school. 

Since you'll be reopening this, it makes sense to come up with a goal around more flexible thinking and behavior. Think about how it impacts him educationally and how you want it serviced- counselor, teacher, SLP? and write the goal. 

Is moving to the homeschool a good plan now? Are his behaviors enough under control that they won't reflect on his brother? Does the homeschool have as qualified a team around special needs as the school he's in now?

The thing is, you can't replicate the classroom even with siblings at home. Plus there's the whole issue with children on spectrum having a difficult time globalizing a skill to a different venue or set of circumstances.

Often when parents sabotage they do so with babysteps that maintain fairness- first DS gets a turn, then DD1 and so on. While that teaches him to wait his turn- an important skill at this age, it doesn't teach him to be OK when his sister gets 2 turns and he doesn't even get one. You could inadvertently be making him more rigid and hypervigilant about fairness rather than more resilient when things just aren't.

I do what I can to get all three kids to learn that "you get what you get and you don't throw a fit."

How is that working for him?

Deliberate sabotage can help; best to start with low ticket items and build up to higher stakes issues.

MGW's Social Thinking programs, especially The Incredible Flexible You can start kids onto the path of being OK when things don't go as expected or desired and give them appropriate tools and scripts to use to preserve their dignity among mainstream peers. Thinking About You Thinking About Me teaches the concept that peers are judging based on behavior and that a child has the power through choosing appropriate behavior to create his reputation.

DS did a lot of CBT to help him reframe dysfunctional thinking and reduce his overall anxiety levels. There's almost always an anxiety piece to this.

He is not currently receiving any social skills programs. Only what is reinforced by the special needs teacher. I will ask about that at his IEP.

It's probably time to ask about this. Some ECSE programs have social skills pushed in, but if they're not ASD appropriate he might not be getting any benefit from it.

I'd schedule an IEP meeting to have goals around this addressed in school which is where he will need the skill next year. Certainly you should be backing them up at home, but for a school issue- they should be doing the heavy lifting and taking the lead. Another piece of the IEP to consider is itinerant support and ASD training for teachers. The way I read this, your DS's special education teacher comes off clueless.

When teachers were stymied about behaviors with DS, I turfed them to DS's psychologist to come up with a plan. Does he see someone outside of school for behavior mods/therapy?

He does not receive outside therapy at this time. I do get a lot of direction from my best friend that is an ABA therapist. 

It's great you have support IRL. Does he see a dev pedi for follow up, this might be a resource for deciding on what reources and strategies are needed now. ABA is powerful stuff, but sometimes certain kids need a different perspective.

My biggest thing is that I want to support him in the ways that he needs. If they are working on something at school we reinforce at home. I figured I would start thinking about this potential issue. His home school principal doesn't like to deal with kids with special needs. The principal is quick to reassign them to one of the other elementary schools nearby with a dedicated developmental department. Rumor is she is leaving soon, but I am concerned with C's future at this school. 

It's great that you are there to back up the practice of these emerging skills at home.

I don't always think it's a great idea for kids on spectrum to always attend school with siblings. It's kind of a case by case thing. Sometimes it's best to give the others a social world apart from ASD for part of the day. Sometimes it's necessary to avoid teachers calling them in to manage behavior or prejudging them. Add in a principal who doesn't support inclusion, and I might stay where he is for now.

On a different note, C has become increasingly emotional to any type of correction, be it "come sit down" or "please don't run". If anything remotely critical is said he shuts downs or starts crying. Any suggestions on how to handle that? 

It's common. It is sometimes a function of anxiety and perfectionism where any suggestion is taken personally as an attack. It's the black & white thinking, if you've found a fault they must be bad.

It can be manipulation in higher functioning individuals.

Sometimes it helps to talk about it frankly and to model taking criticism or suggestions gracefully. Positive behavior is always best and can help you limit the amount of times you use "no" and "don't". Instead of please don't run, say walk please or we walk in the house. And sometimes you just got to let them have their cry. 

[kristin]

I don't know if my oldest still exhibited those behaviors in kinder. I know he exhibits these behaviors at school and at home. The plan is for him to be in the same teacher's class as my daughter had in kinder. The teacher has a lot of experience, especially with those with special needs. She is a "dictator" and that is what C needs (someone more stubborn than he is). He already knows her and it should aid the transition. Those that know about his differences have embraced him for who he is at the home school. Regarding "you get what you get and you don't throw a fit", it depends on the day. Some he is flexible, others he fights it. I will be sure to ask about the social skills programs. I need to make an appointment with the dev pedi,ss I will get that done. If he were to stay at his current school he would be in the developmental class, and those that manage his case do not feel this is the right fit for him. Thank you for the suggestions.

[mrsbuttinski]

Mar 1, 2015 16:37:11 GMT -5 kristin said:

I don't know if my oldest still exhibited those behaviors in kinder. I know he exhibits these behaviors at school and at home. The plan is for him to be in the same teacher's class as my daughter had in kinder. The teacher has a lot of experience, especially with those with special needs. She is a "dictator" and that is what C needs (someone more stubborn than he is). He already knows her and it should aid the transition. Those that know about his differences have embraced him for who he is at the home school. Regarding "you get what you get and you don't throw a fit", it depends on the day. Some he is flexible, others he fights it. I will be sure to ask about the social skills programs. I need to make an appointment with the dev pedi,ss I will get that done. If he were to stay at his current school he would be in the developmental class, and those that manage his case do not feel this is the right fit for him. Thank you for the suggestions.

Does it have to be all or nothing.

A lot of very successful kids I know started in a self contained/mainstreamed hybrid. Sometimes they did mornings with the ASD class and afternoons practicing skills with mainstream kindie. Others went back and forth- they might do academics where they're strong and specials with their mainstream class and spend some time working on behaviors or tougher subjects with the special education classroom with a goal for eventually spending all day in mainstream.

This way he'd have access to building staff who are more familiar with the needs of kids with developmental disabilities- the nurse, specials teachers, etc. IME, in education fish stinks form the head down. If the principal doesn't "get" kids with IEPs, you can be sure a few of the teachers don't get them either.

Good luck. You sound on top of things- however you go, I"m sure he'll do well.

[typeset]

Write goals around flexibility and waiting or delayed gratification to teach him the skills necessary to be successful.

[typeset]

Or exactly what Mrs. B. said.

[kristin]

Mar 1, 2015 17:36:23 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

Mar 1, 2015 16:37:11 GMT -5 kristin said:

I don't know if my oldest still exhibited those behaviors in kinder. I know he exhibits these behaviors at school and at home. The plan is for him to be in the same teacher's class as my daughter had in kinder. The teacher has a lot of experience, especially with those with special needs. She is a "dictator" and that is what C needs (someone more stubborn than he is). He already knows her and it should aid the transition. Those that know about his differences have embraced him for who he is at the home school. Regarding "you get what you get and you don't throw a fit", it depends on the day. Some he is flexible, others he fights it. I will be sure to ask about the social skills programs. I need to make an appointment with the dev pedi,ss I will get that done. If he were to stay at his current school he would be in the developmental class, and those that manage his case do not feel this is the right fit for him. Thank you for the suggestions.

Does it have to be all or nothing.

A lot of very successful kids I know started in a self contained/mainstreamed hybrid. Sometimes they did mornings with the ASD class and afternoons practicing skills with mainstream kindie. Others went back and forth- they might do academics where they're strong and specials with their mainstream class and spend some time working on behaviors or tougher subjects with the special education classroom with a goal for eventually spending all day in mainstream.

This way he'd have access to building staff who are more familiar with the needs of kids with developmental disabilities- the nurse, specials teachers, etc. IME, in education fish stinks form the head down. If the principal doesn't "get" kids with IEPs, you can be sure a few of the teachers don't get them either.

Good luck. You sound on top of things- however you go, I"m sure he'll do well.

While we live in a good district, there are not a lot of in between options. There is one asd class but I would need to figure out if that is what he would benefit from. His annual ard placed him into mainstream kinder at home school. I plan to revisit all of this in the coming months.

I appreciate all the feedback I have gotten.