Post by KC thepouchh8r on Mar 1, 2015 0:09:18 GMT -5
So when dd was three and transitioning from EI they did an iq test. She was uncooperative for the verbal portion so they couldn't get a score but showed strength in the nonverbal visual/problem solving. They said they would try again before she transitions to kindergarten. She is very advanced academically and her teacher mentioned she believes she is very bright. Would it be in her best interest to not let her participate in testing? I fear they could use the scores against her to deny services.
Having the IQ could actually help as you can argue that ASD not LD is the issue and push for supports to help her meet her potential. But either way high IQ or not she would be entitled to services as long as she has the ASD label. Especially if you can get them to do the Vineland (or similar) test to tease out how her quirks are affecting her learning. Plus you want to make sure this isn't just a case of strong rote memory helping her along so you have a clearer picture of what's happening with her.
Post by mrsbuttinski on Mar 1, 2015 8:45:09 GMT -5
There's a lot to consider.
Crappy school districts do sometimes try to deny twice exceptional students services, especially if they're not impacted educationally in the primary grades by social delays.
It's a pretty common scenario for kiddos to graduate from EI or ECSE around transition to kindie because testing reveals them to be largely meeting the expectations of the age group. Fast forward to kindie or first and it all goes to shit because 1) they were doing well because of their IEP or when their peers make a huge leap in emotional maturity without them.
It's also possible for teachers to get it wrong. Preschool and primary grade academics are all about rote memorization. Littles on spectrum are often very adept at memorizing math facts and learning to decode in reading. Rote memory, along with their large vocabs often fools people into thinking they're brighter than they are.
Sometimes enriched or precocious kids have a slide between preschool WPPSI and later WISCs. My godchild had to do both for private school admission. Her parents were amazing in terms of offering her fabulous experiences and a wonderful FT Quaker preschool. She came down about 20 points between ages 4 (borderline gifted and 7 very average). As an adult it's pretty clear that she's a bright average individual with a stronger rote memory and great education.
Starting around 4th/5th grade you'll have a better picture of how the wiring differences associated with ASD impact cognition whatever her IQ. The things like executive function, reading comprehension (character motivation as well as inferred information), abstract reasoning, higher order problem solving, central coherence.
If I had a choice, I'd wait until she's old enough for WISC and do it along with Vineland, BASC (with student form) and TOPL for a clearer picture of her abilities so you can set appropriate academic goals.
Crappy school districts do sometimes try to deny twice exceptional students services, especially if they're not impacted educationally in the primary grades by social delays.
It's a pretty common scenario for kiddos to graduate from EI or ECSE around transition to kindie because testing reveals them to be largely meeting the expectations of the age group. Fast forward to kindie or first and it all goes to shit because 1) they were doing well because of their IEP or when their peers make a huge leap in emotional maturity without them.
It's also possible for teachers to get it wrong. Preschool and primary grade academics are all about rote memorization. Littles on spectrum are often very adept at memorizing math facts and learning to decode in reading. Rote memory, along with their large vocabs often fools people into thinking they're brighter than they are.
Sometimes enriched or precocious kids have a slide between preschool WPPSI and later WISCs. My godchild had to do both for private school admission. Her parents were amazing in terms of offering her fabulous experiences and a wonderful FT Quaker preschool. She came down about 20 points between ages 4 (borderline gifted and 7 very average). As an adult it's pretty clear that she's a bright average individual with a stronger rote memory and great education.
Starting around 4th/5th grade you'll have a better picture of how the wiring differences associated with ASD impact cognition whatever her IQ. The things like executive function, reading comprehension (character motivation as well as inferred information), abstract reasoning, higher order problem solving, central coherence.
If I had a choice, I'd wait until she's old enough for WISC and do it along with Vineland, BASC (with student form) and TOPL for a clearer picture of her abilities so you can set appropriate academic goals.
How old would that be?
Also her team mentioned that she has very strong reading comprehension for her age, not just that she's figured out how letter sounds form words.
Six for the WISC and TOPL as well as the student reporting form of the BASC.
Reading comprehension is really hard to nail down.
I have no doubt her reading comprehension is awesome at this age- the kinds of books she's reading are pretty straightforward. LOL, when DS could decode at preprimer level he brought enough prior knowledge to the testing to answer the questions when a teacher posed them s part of a comprehension assessment. For years his comprehension was a couple levels above his decoding. We had a hard time convincing DS's teachers and psychologist that he couldn't read because of this. He knew he couldn't, but no one listened to him or us for a long time.
Her comprehension may tank a bit as stories become more complex in terms of character motivation and plot devices. I recall a quick assessment DS's psych did to illustrate this- he had DS read a fictional passage about a boy walking to school- they mention the kid seeing his breath, the trees without leaves and the frozen over puddles. The psych asked DS in what season the story took place. Mr. Literal said he didn't know; the story didn't say. The psych pointed out the clues and DS alternately argued that it could have been late fall or early spring- or- that it was unfair to ask a question that is not stated outright. We did some work around this; it's fixable. Presenting this sort of thing as a fun puzzle went a long way to making it palatable.
Comprehension around characters can be hard too. People with poor ToM around the motivations of IRL people generally aren't any better with made up ones. I've know a few boys who find the whole notion of fiction unethical- as if they're books full of made-up lies. I know a few girls who have reading certain genres as a special interest. Harry Potter is hugely popular with a subset of girls on spectrum who just immerse themselves in it.
I once witnessed an ugly altercation in the psych's waiting room between a high school senior and the psych when the senior flipped out because "the Jews in The Chosen aren't even real Jews and I don't know any Jews anyway so why should I care about the fake one?" FTR, the Psych is a Jew. He has a couple of obvious clues this very smart kid missed- like the black ribbon of mourning he was wearing, the photograph of his grandson's bris where he's wearing his prayer shawl, etc. (FTR, this kid had near perfect SAT scores; he ended up at a local agricultural college because his mom could drive him there) Complex characters in fiction- Snape, Darth Vader and Boo Radley can be hard to parse.
Many kids on spectrum prefer nonfiction anyway. The other piece is that a lot of the passages in the tests used to assess this ability are nonfiction about history, biography or science. This plays right into DS's wheelhouse. On most standardized tests, DS kicked ass because of this. In middle school his reading comprehension in fiction was pretty much grade level which is comparatively low relative to the performance of other kids in the district. In nonfiction, he was on college level.
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