KD Questions

[esquette]

Hello all!

Sweetie and I will soon be having The Great Kid Talk, which was delayed until after she finished her orals (now she's officially a PhD candidate!  I'm so proud of her).  I think the first domino in the process that will determine the rest (eg: timing, savings needed, assorted other things) is solving the Origin of the Sperm Mystery.  We have a married couple that we'd like to talk to about whether they might be up for providing us a little genetic support.  Before we go into that, though, we need to know what kinds of things to talk about, you know?

So, I thought I'd come to the boards and ask: What kinds of things did you discuss/decide before you talked to a known donor?  What did you talk about with your known donor when you were deciding if that option would work for you?  Bonus points for: What ultimately made you decide for or against a known donor?

I know we need to cover:
- Possibility of siblings in the future?  What would we do if we became geographically separated in the intervening years between TTC 1 and TTC 2, should we decide to have 2 kiddos.
- Involvement in kids' lives?  What do we want from them after the donations are over?
- Do we want our friends to be "out" as our donor?  Would they be willing to be known as  such?
- Willing to sign away any and all parental rights
- STD testing?
- Genetic testing?  (Although I got the basic genetic screenings done and found I was a carrier for nothing, so probably it's okay.)  Family medical history?  How much does this matter to us?
- Do we need a lawyer, or can we keep this between friends?  

What do you folks think?  Am I missing anything big?  Sweetie and I need to come to agreement on all of these things before we have The Talk with any prospective donor, so I want to make sure that when she and I sit down to talk, we cover everything.  Does that make sense?  What am I overlooking?

(I'm an over-thinker, can you tell?)  Thanks in advance!

[mrsnorris]

I don't know how helpful my experiences will be because it sounds like our KD experience was a bit different than the route you're considering, but I'll share anyway in case nay of it is helpful. DW and I never really considered using anyone in our lives as a donor because the existing relationship with that person would have made it too complex. This is not necessarily how we'd feel no matter what, but in our particular lives and relationships, this was how we felt. We ended up finding our donor on the Known Donor Registry. It turned out that we knew a few people in common (what are the odds in a city as big as Los Angeles) but those connections are not how we came to connect. We were initially looking for people who seemed to have desires compatible with ours and to be relatively sane/normal. As you can imagine, when you start interacting with people who are deliberately seeking to give away their sperm on the internet, there are some strange people out there. We liked our donor's reasons for wanting to donate: he was old enough that he'd realized that he'd not be a parent. He was single, and knew that he didn't really have any desire to parent even if age wasn't a factor, but kind of wanted to father a child in the abstract sense, and thought that this would allow him to help people out and also satisfy his desire to pass on his genetics. He was completely flexible about contact or none and we wanted someone who didn't want to be directly involved in any way but who would be willing to stay in touch and potentially meet LO when she was much older. He was completely open to that. We started talking with him and he seemed like a really nice person and we were pretty compatible. He gave us some family medical history info and gave us testing that showed that he was free of STDs. Obviously, there was some trust involved and it was a bit of a leap of faith but we figured in the end that it was far less dangerous than hooking up with someone in a bar and we decided to risk it. We had him sign forms that we printed off from some website that clarified that he waived all rights and responsibilities. We are told that these documents are not legally binding but we live in a pretty LGBT friendly state (CA) and figured that we'd all trust each other because it's mutual risk and have the documents to prove intent if nothing else. We picked up a sample and conceived LO using the DIY turkey baster method. We keep in touch with our donor via email and send him pictures and updates on LO. If we have another one, we hope to be able to work with him again, but no obligation exists there. I will say that if you're really risk-averse, what we did was a gamble in multiple ways (and continues to be an exercise in trust in some respects) and you might not want to go that route. But, it worked with our finances (free) and we got our amazing DD! If I lived in a state that was less LGBT friendly and had less faith in the court system coming down on our side in the event of terrible problems, I would definitely have scraped together the money for a lawyer somehow and drawn up more binding documents, assuming that it was possible to do so in my state.
At the end of the day, I want medical history for my daughter but I trust our donor to give us the truth. I figure I wouldn't ask for documentation from my SO and wouldn't expect genetic testing to be done if I was conceiving with a partner, so we didn't ask that our donor. I think that being really clear on the roles that everyone will have and mutual goals and compatibility in the outset is the most important thing. Anyway, it's late and I'm writing quickly so I hope this makes some sense and be of some use, but I'm sorry if it's incoherent. It's late. Feel free to PM me if you have more specific questions!

[jennicole]

First I'm going to say that DS had me up really early this morning, so if some of this doesn't make sense I'm so sorry if be happy to elaborate in anything you'd like.

J and I were very open with our friends about wanting to TTC. Our KD heard it through the grapevine that we were looking into banks and preparing to start the TTC process. He actually came to us and said that he'd be willing to donate to us if we felt comfortable going the KD route. J and I discussed it (many times over about a month) and decided this was the path that we wanted to take.

After that, we had a meeting with the 3 of us to discuss expectations. We made it clear that we didn't want any involvement except for the possibility of meeting after DS turns 18 (ultimately up to DS).

Then we went through STD testing and drawing up contracts. We live in a state that doesn't allow second parent adoption, so this part has been very tricky and we're still working on it. During this time we also thoroughly went through KD's medical history (yes, we did this way later than most people would). We specifically asked about mental health (addiction, depression, ect) in addition to the traditional questions.

Once we were all on the same page (with EVERYTHING) we mapped out the days that it would be best to inseminate. By this time I had been tracking my cycle for about 6 months so I had an idea of when my fertile days would be.

We moved an hour away from our KD and J sees him around occasionally (she still works in that area) but he's never seen DS. He's on my friends list on Facebook so he can see/ not see what he wants. We also have an understanding that once we're ready for #2 we had the ability to go through KD as well. That was pretty important to me.

I also want to add that only KD, J and I know who KD is. Our friends know that we went through an acquaintance to conceive DS but they have no idea who he is (and not for lack of trying, let me assure you lol). I feel like at least some anonymity was necessary for us.

This was the first time that KD ever did this but he is open (to us) about donating to other couples. We only asked him that he let us know if/ when there was a donor sibling pregnancy/ birth.

We had an extremely pleasant experience but I know it's not for everybody.

[megd893]

We talked about both options when we had the donor discussion. We actually had two KD's offer their 'services' for us.

KD1: 45, gay, single. Much older half brother of a very close freind. We had a number of discussions with him about what he thought this arrangement would look like. He ageed with us that we would be kiddos parents in every sense of the word. However, like mrsnorris, this would be his way of passing on his genetics and having a child which he seemed to want to do. We talked with him A LOT. About availability for 'deposits', possibility of another in a few years, genetic testing and with him being single - safe sex. The more we did, we came to the realization that he wouldn't ever have other children and thus, once kiddo arrived, he may change his mind. We did a lot of reading about KD's and the attachment that can happen after birth that the KD wasn't prepared for. Thus, even though we trusted him - we would have had him legally sign all rights away with a lawyer. It wasn't something I was willing to risk. Then he began asking about Christmases and Birthdays and we knew that he would want more than K and I were willing to be obligated to give. We don't see him at those times now, so he was going to become a part of our family. THe water started to get muddy and we decided, no thanks.

KD2: 32, married to my best freind. They are a super progressive couple who had been approached by a lesbain before to help her create her family and had declined. However, they knew kiddo would have two loving parents who were financially stable and thus wouldn't go after him for support if things got rough. They have a son already and we're quite close. The issue for us here was that we would have to explain - as it would be better for everyone - the special relationship our child would have with him and his son (our kiddos half brother). While it would make our family special, we were still trying to understand and navigate what our family looked like to ourselves. We had no concern about him wanting more than we were willing to give, but our kiddo would have been half african, with a lesbian mom and a bi-sexual mom living in a very conservative white-german town... *sigh* poor wee one. We weren't sure what to do. What if down the line, our friendship declined? Then he has a half brother he can't see? Someone he identifies as a father figure in his life that we now have an awkward relationship with? Would it feel like some sort of custody arrangement?

We sat down and talked about two great men that we couldn't feel 'right' about. We started talking about UD's. Decided we wanted kiddo to be able to find out who the donor was if he wanted, which was something we could do (and did). Though our UD is from the US, at 18 he's open to meeting any kids we have with his genetic material. We also have the possibility to have siblings with the same donor. We always felt a strong need to know that legally WE were his parents, and no one could take that away from us. There have been cases in Canada where lesbian couples used KD's and he ended up coming after them for visitation after baby was born as he 'changed his mind'. He was granted these rights and recognized as the 'dad'. With UD we had no concerns about this. For us, goign the UD route just seemed less stressful with less possibilities of unknown things popping up.

I give GREAT credit to those who use KD's. It wasn't right for our family, but you'll find out what works for yours

Kudos if you made it all the way to the end! Sorry it was so long winded.

[RM80]

We went with a bank, willing to be known at age 18 donor, no KD we wanted to ask/consider. So no experience with a KD, so take my opinion for just that- my opinion.

I would NOT do anything without a lawyer. This is your family, not matter how much comfort you feel with a KD, friends, etc. Things always have the potential to get sticky later. Get a lawyer, draw up contracts/agreements. It can't cost that much, and for me, it would be worth the peace of mind!

I would get your KD to fill out a basic family/medical history. If nothing else, just in case something happens to them or your relationship deteriorates so you have something. You can just look at histories provided by banks & replicate that. It can't take that long to fill out, but worst case- car crash & your donor dies, you have something about them for you LO's future. If you went with a bank what few pieces of info would you have in a folder? Medical history, few childhood and/or adult pictures, and an essay about them and their hobbies/interests. I would consider creating the same with a KD- just in case!

Also- lastly I would pay for them to have the genetic testing done, it cost like $100 when we had our done, and then you know. No mystery.

Really, I'm not a fatalist I promise! But this is your FAMILY, and these are big, big decisions. There isn't room to leave holes legally or otherwise in my opinion!!

[sdfonz619]

Just like mrsnorris, we also found our donor through KDR. Some of the things that were most important to us were ensuring the donor was healthy and STD free, had the same mindset in terms of expectations now or in the future and ensuring we were able to legally bind everything to avoid issues from arising later. It was also important that we felt good about our donor's reason for wanting to donate. In our case, our donor is married with children and simply has the desire to help people conceive who otherwise might find it difficult. KDR (Known Donor Registry) simply connects you with potential donors. It is completely up to you to verify the information provided and ensure that all things health wise and legally are in line beforehand. Our donor is also willing to make himself available for siblings as well. After getting all of our ducks in a row, we simply coordinated everything via texts and emails and conceived about five months later. We keep in contact with the donor to update him on how the pregnancy is progressing and to discuss coordinate legal arrangements after the baby is born.

When it comes to the legality of things, it all depends on the arrangement you make with the donor. I have a close friend who maintains primary custody of the child, but has a co-parenting arrangement with her donor who also happens to be her best-friend. If there is someone in your life that you are comfortable enough to have this sort of relationship with, then it can certainly be a great thing for you and the child. We decided against using someone we knew primarily because of our desire against the donor having close involvement with our child. We have agreed with our donor to allow contact after the age of 18 if so desired.

There are definitely a lot of factors to consider, but the list you have so far is definitely a good start. Establishing open communication and ensuring you and your partner agree on everything is most important. Good luck in your journey!

[cetcar]

My bit of info on this topic-

(So far) we ended up using a 'willing to be known' donor from a bank, but before making that choice we considered known donors, including people we already knew and spent some time on KDR. Though we didn't get too far down that road as nothing really clicked with anyone and we decided to move ahead on our own schedule, I want to also mention that some banks have a standard 'Directed Donor' protocol, which is kind of a middle ground if you find a known donor but want to make sure a professional is handling the disease and genetic testing as well as in some states the parental rights forms (ours included a counseling session for the donor and the sperm donor waiver of rights). If we had (or eventually do) use a known donor, this was an option we felt more comfortable with.

Though you pay more than having someone donate to you for free, it is still considerably cheaper than buying per vial, and since (at least at our bank) they had a schedule that could get several donations and the testing done in the span of a week, it allows you the flexibility of having vials on ice for your future use just as you would have with a bank donor. Essentially, you're taking your known donor and having them tested and qualified the way the bank would vet their standard donors.

I looked into this quite a bit as the one known donor we originally were talking with lives abroad, so we would have flown him here for a week or 2 and he would have had several appointments with the bank in that period of time. We were told this could get between 9-12 vials collected in the week, and without the need for quarantine since it would be within the 7 days of disease testing.

I also believe if you're working with an RE, they may require a protocol like this if they're doing IUIs with the samples, so that's something to look into as well.

[karlamo]

megd893, your experience sounds simlair to ours. We vetted a KD for 2 years. He is our best friend and we talked for years about it and then when we were really serious we asked him to speak to a therapist. He was already seeing one at that time so it was no big deal. After he did, he realized he would want more of a connection to the baby than he orginaly thought. Then he started talking about his family having a casual role in LO life. He's gay and the baby of the family so I knew his mom would love to have a grandbaby by him.
Those were all red flags to us that this was not how we wanted our family to be. I joked with him that if he tried to gain rights to LO that I sue him for child support.

In some ways I would had loved to use a KD but in the end an unknown donor till 18 worked best for our desires.

[Deleted]

My thought is if you go through all this process up front and it takes you some time to get pg- or a long time- will a guy you know be willing to donate often/over an extended stretch? Its easy to envision if it happens quickly, but will a friend be willing to prioritize your fertility if it takes the clinic, many cycles etc etc.

[bmorecharming]

Thanks for starting this thread, esquette. This has been super helpful for us as well

[ionaerebor]

So it looks like ours is quite a different situation from others, but here we go.

When my partner and I first started talking about having a baby almost 18 months ago, we decided very early on that we would be using my eggs. We we also knew that we wanted my partner to be genetically related if at all possible. That left us with two options, her two male cousins. One of them we wrote off right away, for reasons my partner would prefer me not to talk about, so that left us with just the other one.

Because he is family, and he is actually one of our closest friends, we already knew a fair bit about his medical family history and his mental health history. We also knew that because of the laws here in Sweden, if my partner was to go on the birth certificate, we would have to go through a fertility clinic to conceive, which meant that he would automatically have written over any and all rights and responsibilities towards all resulting children, and he would have STI and genetic testing done. So in the purely medical sense, it was exactly like using an unknown donor, for us. It also meant that he had to donate at least 10 vials for us.

When we approached him to ask, he wasn't in a relationship, and had no desire to have any children any time soon (which is still true) and he decided he wanted to do this for us very quickly.

The only thing we really discussed with him at any real length was what his, and any children he may have in the future, relationship with our child/children would be. Since he is already our family, we decided he would essentially have exactly the same relationship with our child/children that he would have if he was not the sperm donor, as would any children he may have, though we would make sure our child/children knew that he was the sperm donor.


I think if you are not using a clinic, or are using one that doesn't automatically do this, you definitely want to get a lawyer involved to sign over any rights and responsibilities towards any children you have as a result, and get the genetic and STI testing done. I would also consider thinking about what you want the relationship between your child and any children your donor may have will be like.

Good luck on your journey!