NWMR: Two Way Bilingual Immersion Programs

[k3am]

Obviously not a real concern of ours for quite some time, but how do you feel about a Two Way (Bilingual) Immersion program for elementary school? The school we're zoned for is not a well rated school. They are in the process of turning the school into to TWI program - 50% of all instruction in English, 50% of all instruction in Spanish.

While I can see the pros (DD would be an excellent Spanish speaker!), I'm also curious how realistic some of the cons I'm imagining are. Has anyone had their child enrolled in something like this? Any thoughts?

[RiseAndWine]

No personal experience but they are really big in our area and I have always been intrigued. I think if the curriculum and other traditional aspects of the school are good then the positives would outweigh the negatives.

[sunbutter]

A bilingual program can be amazing if the school is strong. If your local school is making the switch to accommodate children who do not speak English as a first language, I think it is a bad idea and likely not to increase the school quality or performance.

So in short, my primary concern is that you say it is not a highly ranked school, not that it is going bilingual. I would want more details from their strategic plan as to how that is going to improve the overall educational experience at the school.

DS is at a private school that isn't Spanish immersion but does have a big focus on Spanish exposure compared to other elementary schools. I am glad he is learning to be comfortable with a second language while he is young.

[RiseAndWine]

I thought you meant the school You're zoned for is a different school and you're looking at the immersion school As another option?

[littlesthobo]

*lurker jumping in*

I teach French Immersion where the students receive 50% English, 50% French each day. What are some of the cons that concern you? As a teacher, here are some that come to mind for me:

Pros:
- exposure to a new language at a young age; kids tend to be really enthusiastic about learning
- a more challenging curriculum for students that need it
- many skills learned in one language can be applied to the other
- easier for students to pick up additional languages later on
- students have a broader understanding of the world and that there are many cultures/languages that exist
- more learning and job opportunities available later on down the road

Cons:
- learning time is limited in each language, harder to catch up if one falls behind
- parents often don't speak the second language at home and struggle to help their child (a good teacher will plan for this!)
- if a student is struggling in English, it is often more difficult to learn the second language
- student will most likely have multiple teachers (one for each language; this can be a pro as well depending on the situation)

[jmski]

I worked at a French and Spanish language school, and it was amazing. I wish we had something like that where we live!

[k3am]

RiseAndWine,the school we're zoned for is crappy and is transitioning to the TWI program. The school gets low marks on both traditional measures and parent reviews. My gut feeling is that the TWI program is designed to help facilitate learning for the students that are ESL (~60% of the school is Spanish speaking) vs as an enrichment for students who speak English as a first language.


Also, I just realized that you're beaubecca. *lesigh* can't keep up with all these changes!

[seamonster]

Personally I would consider it, especially if my child wasn't starting school for a few years. It's possible that this would help the school improve on its metrics. If their metrics don't improve, does your district have open enrollment that your child could attend a different school like one zoned for your childcare provider?

[jennyelf]

I went to one of these types of schools as a kid (French / English). Only for 2 years (K&1) as I moved states, but I thought it was awesome at the time and really wish I had been able to continue.

[2chatter]

I struggle with this conceptually. We moved from private to public and had to clear a lot of testing-based hurdles (learning asinine things like a plot summary is one sentence for The Test when DD wrote paragraphs). I am still trying to accept that this is a testing based world now, and I often wonder how kids in unique programs perform on tests as a lot of time is spent on teaching very test specific curriculum. In your case, the tests are not immersive, so that time "lost" to language might manifest as a deficiency on The Test (but not In Real Life - except as far as tests are used for EVERYTHING - kids are grouped by ability based on tests in a wide variety of ways - reading, writing, logic, science and math groups are all test based here.) If you transition away from immersion, when you land in a junior high, how will the baseline of your student compare to students from other schools? It was incredibly disheartening for my children to spend year scrabbling their way back into the top groups as they didn't have that Test Knowledge.

I hope I am explaining that clearly. Bottom line is, like it or not, public education relies heavily on testing and I don't know how that would be impacted by an immersive language program. There might be a curriculum trade off. We offset test based curriculum with GT programs, humanities based summer camps and projects at home, but I don't know how you compensate for curriculum.

[momofcatan]

I think language immersion is a great option for strong kids. I went to a private Jewish day school and had half day hebrew immersion. I'm awful with languages but can read, write and follow a conversation in Hebrew. Full credit to the immersion program, if it wasn't being spoken to me 1/2 the day I would never have picked it up. I don't think immersion is for everyone, but it provides an extra layer of challenge that is great for a lot of kids.

What you are describing doesn't really sound like they are going to be enriching the education at all. If anything they are putting the Spanish-speaking kids at more of a disadvantage by limiting their English education.

[mommyatty]

We have friends in the Bay Area who sent their daughter to a school like the one you are describing. A school with historically poor ratings that went bilingual immersion. It was a terrible experience for their daughter. The English as a first language kids all transferred to different schools or went to private schools, leaving her as the only native English speaker in her grade. She felt very, very isolated. The school ended up being much more a "taught in Spanish with an occasional nod to English" school than an immersion school.

Luckily, the kid is a cracker jack ballerina, so she's now transferring to a school that's affiliated with the San Francisco Ballet.

And yes, she does speak Spanish like a native speaker. She also hates school and resents her parents for making her go to school there when they had other options. I couldn't believe they left her there for all of elementary school.

[litzo27]

Mar 3, 2015 18:52:35 GMT -5 sunbutter said:

A bilingual program can be amazing if the school is strong. If your local school is making the switch to accommodate children who do not speak English as a first language, I think it is a bad idea and likely not to increase the school quality or performance.

So in short, my primary concern is that you say it is not a highly ranked school, not that it is going bilingual. I would want more details from their strategic plan as to how that is going to improve the overall educational experience at the school.

DS is at a private school that isn't Spanish immersion but does have a big focus on Spanish exposure compared to other elementary schools. I am glad he is learning to be comfortable with a second language while he is young.

This. I've heard great things about very strong immersion schools - particular I have friends with kids in a Chinese one and another in French one. However I have also heard horror stories from someone going through a situation very similar to what you describe. Second language is a big deal to me (we only speak Russian in the house and have Russian speaking nanny for little ones to maintain) so I would probably give it some time if testing the waters for several months and transferring if things are not working is an option.