Question about Timing

[Deleted]

Since H and I had such shitty timing this month, I went off to google-land and the newbie blog to see if we had any detail on the odds and/or statistics of timing during the fertile week.

So I know in the TWW, we do -4 to +4, right? Or something very close to that... But everything I've found online says your fertile window is only leading up TO ovulation, but not after?

See:



See Also:



So, I guess my question(s) would be: why do we count the days after ovulation? And is there any backup or data similar to the above that says it's possible? 

Everything I'm finding says that basically within 24 hours of your ovulation, you're shop is closed.

Thoughts? 

[pismoduo]

I've never heard if using +4. I think some of us count +1 because if you O'ed late in the day you still have a chance the next day. But since the lifespan of an egg is only 12-24 hours, +4 makes no sense to me.

[ldubhawksfan]

I don't think in the 2ww thread anything more than +1 should be reported. The reason why is because the egg has a much shorter shelf life than sperm; about 12-24 hours. So after ovulation day (or maybe into +1 if you ovulated later in the day), the window has closed. Sperm can live up to 4-5 days in the tubes waiting for the egg to drop, which is why that timing "counts".

[anonymouseliza]

Generally, -5 to +1. The +1 is in case of ovulation later in the day (if you ovulate at 9 pm and have sex at 6 am, there is still a chance for pregnancy) or in case of multiple eggs being released, which can happen over a 24 hour period (generally speaking).

Your odds aren't great, but it can and does happen.

[Rama]

Mar 4, 2015 18:15:06 GMT -5 @pugsandwine said:

Since H and I had such shitty timing this month, I went off to google-land and the newbie blog to see if we had any detail on the odds and/or statistics of timing during the fertile week.

So I know in the TWW, we do -4 to +4, right? Or something very close to that... But everything I've found online says your fertile window is only leading up TO ovulation, but not after?

See:

[x]

See Also:
[x]


So, I guess my question(s) would be: why do we count the days after ovulation? And is there any backup or data similar to the above that says it's possible? 

Everything I'm finding says that basically within 24 hours of your ovulation, you're shop is closed.

Thoughts? 

I haven't been to the TWW thread in, like, ever, but your fertile "week" is -5 to +1.  And the +1 is just a "just in case you ovulated late in the day and it's still in there!!" kinda deal.  Example: If you ovulate at 8pm, O+1 could still be viable until 8am-8pm.

[ldubhawksfan]

I will say that you should still chart sex after O+1 in case your temping proves that you O day shifts later.

[Deleted]

Lol. Guise. Maybe I dreamed the -4 to +4 then. I can't find any examples now. Let's blame crazy train and wishful thinking.

My bad.

Gif Party!

[anonymouseliza]

I've never seen +4 either, but I can think of a reasonable explanation for why someone might count to that degree. We talk about pinpointing ovulation with charting as if it is a given, but I believe it's considered to +/- 3 days, so I can see a situation in which ovulation is pinpointed as cd16 (for grins), and someone reports the entire possible fertile week (7 days before suspected ovulation, 3 days after).

It wouldn't really be right - and yes, the egg lives for up to 24 hours, usually closer to 12, so when it's done, it's done - but I could see some logic.

[helloerrbody]

I wish the fertile window lasted for 9 days!!!!! Damn bodies.

[grahamcrackers]

Interesting how the graphs are slightly different.  The first one has likelihood peaking -2, and the other graph has the peak at O.  Anyone have insight on this?

[itsmeally]

Mar 4, 2015 20:45:02 GMT -5 @wineandcupcakes said:

Also, @littleliverpill went on ff over the summer and found that your odds of achieving a pregnancy are the same for EOD sex versus ED sex.

The more you know... (I'm mobile...can a sistah get a gif?)

[MissMusic]

I always thought it was -4 to O+1!
ETA: Did the studies know for certain when to pin O? Could the discrepancies in the graphs be due to the "best guess" of O day?

For ex: I O'ed on CD 17 last month and I was expecting CD 15, which means if I only had sex on what I THOUGHT was O day (CD 15), it would have actually been viewed as O+2?  Make sense?  It made sense in my head but now I type it out and I'm not so sure...

[anonymouseliza]

Mar 4, 2015 20:59:53 GMT -5 MissMusic said:

I always thought it was -4 to O+1!
ETA: Did the studies know for certain when to pin O? Could the discrepancies in the graphs be due to the "best guess" of O day?

For ex: I O'ed on CD 17 last month and I was expecting CD 15, which means if I only had sex on what I THOUGHT was O day (CD 15), it would have actually been viewed as O+2?  Make sense?  It made sense in my head but now I type it out and I'm not so sure...

Most studies are assuming O confirmed by charting, bw or u/s (depending on the study).  There is a margin of error with those methods of greater or lesser degrees by method.

[anonymouseliza]

Mar 4, 2015 18:56:14 GMT -5 grahamcrackers said:

Interesting how the graphs are slightly different.  The first one has likelihood peaking -2, and the other graph has the peak at O.  Anyone have insight on this?

Ok, so it's been a couple of years since I read the studies on this, right?  So I can't point you to them immediately.  But what I remember is that a couple of smallish studies reviewed conception timing with fertility charting and attempted to pinpoint the best days to time sex for conception through a controlled subject study (women charted and used opk's and only had sex on assigned days) and through retro-active chart reviews. They found the highest number of women conceived from intercourse on -2 than any other day.  However, the study was flawed because there wasn't sufficient variable control (and it would be extremely hard to account for sufficient variable control in any study like this because of the potential for undiscovered underlying issues affecting the results).

So, theoretically, -2 is the most fertile date.  If you can only have sex once before ovulation, aim for that day.  

However, the more sex you have in the fertile window, the higher the odds of conception because more sperm are available to fertilize the egg.  So, your odds are slightly better if you have sex at -3 and -1 because odds are higher that live, healthy sperm are present and waiting because (roughly) twice as much sperm made it into the reproductive tract.

As for the difference in graphs, there is some logic to odds being higher on O day (but I don't know if the same number of studies support it), if for no other reason than cervical fluid becomes less of an issue since sperm don't need to be nurtured for an extended period.