Blog post on ABA -positive but different

[akafred]

Not trying to cause controversy, but I thought it might be interesting or helpful for some who are concerned about ABA. Basically it's a blog post by a mom who had concerns about ABA and found a way to make it work for her family.

chimericalcapuchin.wordpress.com/2014/09/13/making-aba-safe-and-helpful/

[Life is interesting]

Mar 14, 2015 11:47:09 GMT -5 akafred said:

Not trying to cause controversy, but I thought it might be interesting or helpful for some who are concerned about ABA. Basically it's a blog post by a mom who had concerns about ABA and found a way to make it work for her family.

chimericalcapuchin.wordpress.com/2014/09/13/making-aba-safe-and-helpful/

This still seemed a bit negative to me. I suppose it depends on what your end goal is. And of course what your child's potential is because all of our children are individuals and have different needs and we may need to have different expectations.

That said I still feel this blog is overall negative. My child is in ABA. I had some of these same concerns. He has really
No problematic behaviors he's just " learning to learn"'in ABA. I am okay with him learning " hands quiet" because this is a skill needed in school and appropriate. He never flapped but if he did I feel to be successful in life, extinguishing it would be necessary. ABA has also taught him to play appropriately and in my case has been so positive but we are at a great center and it is very individualized. My end goal so to speak is to make my child indistinguishable from his peers in most areas. He will always have the social concerns that will
Distinguish him but at least we can do this for now.

[akafred]

I posted this more for people (perhaps lurkers) who come at ASD therapy from an alternative perspective and do not want to pursue ABA. If you're happy with your child's therapy, that's awesome. But not everyone is. This may be for them. Ways to make ABA work for your individual family (just as you have done).

[junebug060609]

The post addressed some of my concerns with ABA. My son receives ABA, but I'm always at least within ear shot (he does better if he can't see me) and I've totally spoken up if I didn't like what I was seeing/hearing.

[Life is interesting]

Mar 15, 2015 7:50:08 GMT -5 akafred said:

I posted this more for people (perhaps lurkers) who come at ASD therapy from an alternative perspective and do not want to pursue ABA. If you're happy with your child's therapy, that's awesome. But not everyone is. This may be for them. Ways to make ABA work for your individual family (just as you have done).

I realize that. Just speaking from my experience. I realize many people ( myself included) har concerns when desiring the approach to take.

[mrsbuttinski]

Eh. I've read many version of this essay. TBH, when I read I checked for a publication date because it seemed very like the in defense of ABA treatises popular 15-20 years ago when more people were starting to get ABA services and there was still a lingering stank left over from the use of aversives.

I wondered if the adult she cites in her story about quiet hands is old enough to have been subjected to aversives or if he's just an adult on spectrum who finds revisiting the experience upsetting for some reason. Some adults on spectrum bear grudges over choices made by parents on their behalf, others are hypersensitive to any intervention or corrective measures taken to change them because of B&W thinking, and still others hold the notion that stimming should be allowed at all times and in all places.

About the Sensory Funnel. I suspect this is another situation where people who have poor ToM are assuming they speak for all on spectrum. That video has been floating around the internet for a while. It pops up on my FB feed pretty much weekly. DS thinks it's bullshit, but of course he doesn't speak for all on spectrum either.

[KC thepouchh8r]

I'm not on spectrum but I stim quite frequently as an adult and stimmed a ton as a kid. I'm stimming as i write this, lol. I can't concentrate on a lecture without it. I probably would have been a D student and certainly wouldn't have triple majored in college without it. We redirect stimming to more socially appropriate behavior but I can't imagine extinguishing it. I still managed to be quite popular socially despite it.

[Life is interesting]

Mar 15, 2015 18:25:54 GMT -5 KC thepouchh8r said:

I'm not on spectrum but I stim quite frequently as an adult and stimmed a ton as a kid. I'm stimming as i write this, lol. I can't concentrate on a lecture without it. I probably would have been a D student and certainly wouldn't have triple majored in college without it. We redirect stimming to more socially appropriate behavior but I can't imagine extinguishing it. I still managed to be quite popular socially despite it.

Ok so I'm curious. How would you describe your stims ( if comfortable) and would you have preferred being taught how to redirect those feelings?

My DS is so much better about it but he does still ocasionally stim on electric doors or opening and closing things but it's close to gone unless he is really bored or sick. My goal for him is to "rewire" this to appropriate behavior so he isn't a 16 year old watching the doors open and close at Walmart.

[KC thepouchh8r]

Mar 16, 2015 8:42:10 GMT -5 Life is interesting said:

Mar 15, 2015 18:25:54 GMT -5 KC thepouchh8r said:

I'm not on spectrum but I stim quite frequently as an adult and stimmed a ton as a kid. I'm stimming as i write this, lol. I can't concentrate on a lecture without it. I probably would have been a D student and certainly wouldn't have triple majored in college without it. We redirect stimming to more socially appropriate behavior but I can't imagine extinguishing it. I still managed to be quite popular socially despite it.

Ok so I'm curious. How would you describe your stims ( if comfortable) and would you have preferred being taught how to redirect those feelings?

My DS is so much better about it but he does still ocasionally stim on electric doors or opening and closing things but it's close to gone unless he is really bored or sick. My goal for him is to "rewire" this to appropriate behavior so he isn't a 16 year old watching the doors open and close at Walmart.

I did/do a lot of behaviors with hands and legs. Hair twirling, doodling while teachers talked, bounce my leg, rub thumbs over back of fingers, sway back and forth like I'm holding a baby when standing up. Also chewed pens a lot. I have to rub my bare feet together to fall asleep and do it a lot while relaxing. Stimming helps me avoid spacing out which is the lesser of two evils.

I agree with redirecting to appropriate behavior. I disagree with quiet hands/extinguishing and am lucky I grew up in a time (or my stimming wasn't as noticeable I suppose) where no one tried to push that on me.

[hopecounts]

Mar 15, 2015 18:25:54 GMT -5 KC thepouchh8r said:

I'm not on spectrum but I stim quite frequently as an adult and stimmed a ton as a kid. I'm stimming as i write this, lol. I can't concentrate on a lecture without it. I probably would have been a D student and certainly wouldn't have triple majored in college without it. We redirect stimming to more socially appropriate behavior but I can't imagine extinguishing it. I still managed to be quite popular socially despite it.

This is what DD's ABA team's approach is, redirect to socially appropriate unless it's interfering with attention/focus.

[mrsbuttinski]

Mar 16, 2015 8:42:10 GMT -5 Life is interesting said:

Mar 15, 2015 18:25:54 GMT -5 KC thepouchh8r said:

I'm not on spectrum but I stim quite frequently as an adult and stimmed a ton as a kid. I'm stimming as i write this, lol. I can't concentrate on a lecture without it. I probably would have been a D student and certainly wouldn't have triple majored in college without it. We redirect stimming to more socially appropriate behavior but I can't imagine extinguishing it. I still managed to be quite popular socially despite it.

Ok so I'm curious. How would you describe your stims ( if comfortable) and would you have preferred being taught how to redirect those feelings?

My DS is so much better about it but he does still ocasionally stim on electric doors or opening and closing things but it's close to gone unless he is really bored or sick. My goal for him is to "rewire" this to appropriate behavior so he isn't a 16 year old watching the doors open and close at Walmart.

I know a woman who is both a brilliant writer and a BCBA. Her thoughts on stimming are similar. For NT people, many stims cause a visceral reaction- there is subconscious association that certain stims have a neurological piece that is off-putting. Her rule of thumb for an individual any age is this- if your kid was standing on a street corner at 25 doing whatever it is, would other people cross the street to avoid him, pity him, or assume he's less capable because of his actions. I have only one world to offer DS, I have to help him find ways to be successful in it.


Everybody stims, the difference is that typical people generally can redirect into behaviors that aren't off-putting to others- the hair twirling, the pencil rolling, and foot tapping. It's a bit like masturbation, pretty much everyone does it, but most would be uncomfortable if they had  to watch someone else have at it- best to redirect or find a socially acceptable substitute.  

[Life is interesting]

Mar 16, 2015 10:55:51 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

Mar 16, 2015 8:42:10 GMT -5 Life is interesting said:

Ok so I'm curious. How would you describe your stims ( if comfortable) and would you have preferred being taught how to redirect those feelings?

My DS is so much better about it but he does still ocasionally stim on electric doors or opening and closing things but it's close to gone unless he is really bored or sick. My goal for him is to "rewire" this to appropriate behavior so he isn't a 16 year old watching the doors open and close at Walmart.

I know a woman who is both a brilliant writer and a BCBA. Her thoughts on stimming are similar. For NT people, many stims cause a visceral reaction- there is subconscious association that certain stims have a neurological piece that is off-putting. Her rule of thumb for an individual any age is this- if your kid was standing on a street corner at 25 doing whatever it is, would other people cross the street to avoid him, pity him, or assume he's less capable because of his actions. I have only one world to offer DS, I have to help him find ways to be successful in it.


Everybody stims, the difference is that typical people generally can redirect into behaviors that aren't off-putting to others- the hair twirling, the pencil rolling, and foot tapping. It's a bit like masturbation, pretty much everyone does it, but most would be uncomfortable if they had  to watch someone else have at it- best to redirect or find a socially acceptable substitute.  

Good explanation.
Thanks to all who answered.

My DS was taught quiet hands but more as a learning technique, come to the table ready to learn and listen. And hello he is 2, what 2 year old doesn't have a little difficulty sitting quietly. Honestly for me as a parent its been very helpful when he wont redirect typical toddler behavior ( wants to get a dvd out of the player etc) "quiet hands" has worked well to calm
Him down stop grabbing at the end or whatever which wasn't a stim and move on to whatever we were doing. My thought process is that he has to listen to his teachers so this is a good thing to learn.

[KC thepouchh8r]

Mar 16, 2015 13:05:16 GMT -5 Life is interesting said:

Mar 16, 2015 10:55:51 GMT -5 mrsbuttinski said:

I know a woman who is both a brilliant writer and a BCBA. Her thoughts on stimming are similar. For NT people, many stims cause a visceral reaction- there is subconscious association that certain stims have a neurological piece that is off-putting. Her rule of thumb for an individual any age is this- if your kid was standing on a street corner at 25 doing whatever it is, would other people cross the street to avoid him, pity him, or assume he's less capable because of his actions. I have only one world to offer DS, I have to help him find ways to be successful in it.


Everybody stims, the difference is that typical people generally can redirect into behaviors that aren't off-putting to others- the hair twirling, the pencil rolling, and foot tapping. It's a bit like masturbation, pretty much everyone does it, but most would be uncomfortable if they had  to watch someone else have at it- best to redirect or find a socially acceptable substitute.  

Good explanation.
Thanks to all who answered.

My DS was taught quiet hands but more as a learning technique, come to the table ready to learn and listen. And hello he is 2, what 2 year old doesn't have a little difficulty sitting quietly. Honestly for me as a parent its been very helpful when he wont redirect typical toddler behavior ( wants to get a dvd out of the player etc) "quiet hands" has worked well to calm
Him down stop grabbing at the end or whatever which wasn't a stim and move on to whatever we were doing. My thought process is that he has to listen to his teachers so this is a good thing to learn.

Quiet hands to get a kid ready to sit at a table (which I can't really see doing therapy seated at a table that young but whatever) makes zero sense to me. I generally like positive phrases that explain what you want their behavior to be vs saying no, don't do that but that one doesn't seem fitting to that situation. I've heard calm body along with deep breaths to redirect a hyper preschooler to sit for circle time but never quiet hands used that way.

[Life is interesting]

Mar 16, 2015 13:21:55 GMT -5 KC thepouchh8r said:

Mar 16, 2015 13:05:16 GMT -5 Life is interesting said:

Good explanation.
Thanks to all who answered.

My DS was taught quiet hands but more as a learning technique, come to the table ready to learn and listen. And hello he is 2, what 2 year old doesn't have a little difficulty sitting quietly. Honestly for me as a parent its been very helpful when he wont redirect typical toddler behavior ( wants to get a dvd out of the player etc) "quiet hands" has worked well to calm
Him down stop grabbing at the end or whatever which wasn't a stim and move on to whatever we were doing. My thought process is that he has to listen to his teachers so this is a good thing to learn.

Quiet hands to get a kid ready to sit at a table (which I can't really see doing therapy seated at a table that young but whatever) makes zero sense to me. I generally like positive phrases that explain what you want their behavior to be vs saying no, don't do that but that one doesn't seem fitting to that situation. I've heard calm body along with deep breaths to redirect a hyper preschooler to sit for circle time but never quiet hands used that way.

Well I'm no expert. He doesn't sit at the table the entire time. Does his learning exercise, goes to play, comes back, works, then plays etc. it works well. He will be expected to in school so why not now? I'm not sure how long they sit there at a time but typically not longer than 5 mins or so. It's a building block as explained to me. My DS isn't hyperactive at all, pretty easy going guy.

You are correct we use much positive phrases but part of ABA os learning to obey what is asked. So if he doesn't comply first time, second time is "no, come here or whatever you said." Still ignores, " no and you lead them by the hand to do what you asked.
It has worked well and at least for my DS who is pretty compliant to begin with it has helped him learn to " tune in" to adults when spoken to, a skill he will need now and as he gets older. Lack of attunement is a concern with many individuals with ASD.

[KC thepouchh8r]

What is developmentally appropriate for a two year old vs a kid in school are two different things. Seated table work didn't start until year two of preschool for either kid (one with asd one typically developing) and even then it's still very child led.

I get the idea of teaching kids to tune in to adults by directing to follow directions. We did that even though we turned down Aba. Quiet hands to not touch something inappropriate sort of makes sense; using it as a cue for seated work does not. Using the same phrase for both things sounds like it would be confusing for a kid presumably with language delays.

[bigpoppa22]

First post here on TCF, so I guess this is a bit of an intro! MY DS is about to turn 2 and was diagnosed with ASD in February. We just started with 20 hours of ABA over the course of the past 2 weeks and he has had ST for about 6 weeks.

I did not find the article to be that negative or anti-ABA. Maybe I am interpreting it wrong, but it seems to be more of a traditional/DTT-based ABA vs. naturalistic ABA issue, and I think many tend to assume DTT when ABA is mentioned. It also seems, as mrsbuttinski mentioned, that some of the techniques being criticized in the article are dated and not generally used today.

We had two evals done by very respected doctors/centers who had no cards on the table (neither offered or referred us to therapy) and both had recommended treatment that included more naturalistic methods. The 2nd psychiatrist, who we will continue to consult with, is a big advocate of ESDM. Unfortunately, it is not very popular or easy to find in the Northeast in general, and specifically as part of our state-run EIP.

Our psychiatrist did recommend the book cited in that article, An Early Start For Your Child With Autism. I am a BIG fan of this book, and you may see me mention it again in future comments. It is a parent/caregiver's guide to ESDM and explains very easy to follow, sensible ways to make every day activities into learning opportunities for our LO.

While we waited for our LO's paperwork to get processed by the EIP, I researched the 30+ providers and agencies that are available in my area and found the ONE - there is only one - that does not do DTT and only naturalistic, and went with that. Our psychiatrist spoke at length with the clinical director and gave us the green light. We have been happy with the first 2 weeks of ABA. All play based. Not table-top DTT, no boring repetition, no robotic programming. This method used is much more similar to ESDM and is totally our speed. Wish us luck!