Booze and breastfeeding

[ThePalindromicOne]

Alright.  Tell me your thoughts and/or experience and/or research with regards to drinking alcohol and breastfeeding.  Do you pump and dump?  Do you use the test strips?  Do you time your drinking and breastfeeding a certain way?  Do you avoid altogether?  Do you not worry about it at all?

TIA!

[amber311]

I was just thinking about this today! I haven't done any research yet but I did register for the strips. Thanks for starting the thread. I'm curious as well!

[carolyngrace]

The majority of the time I only have 1 glass of wine (maybe 2, over a few hours). I probably won't worry about that, just as I haven't worried about drinking here and there while pregnant.

If I plan to go out and drink more I'd probably pump & dump, but I'm not sure about the timelines, etc for that!

[sidneyvicious]

Here's hoping breastfeeding class tomorrow covers this! I read somewhere that pumping and dumping is not necessary -- but I can't remember where I read it, and I'd really like more info to either back that up for refute it.

[Girlymama79]

I generally will have one drink and breastfeed without a care. And your breast milk is like your blood in that your body will filter out all the alcohol given time.

[leenziepops]

I'm thinking I would apply the same rules to drinking while pregnant to breastfeeding. But considering I haven't touched alcohol since knowing I am pregnant, my rule is pretty black and white and also easy for me to follow because I'm not huge on alcohol.

[veggiemo]

What Girlymama79 said exactly.

I did use the test strips on the occasion that I went out a got pretty tipsy, (like my best friend's 30th birthday, for example) so I would know for sure when I was in the clear. But dumping breast milk is like dumping liquid gold. You don't want to do it unless you absolutely have to!

[billyhorrible]

So like Girlymama79 referenced, alcohol enters and exits your breastmilk the same way it enters and exits your blood.

In general, if you feel tipsy, you shouldn't be breastfeeding, as that will pass it on to the baby. If you're not feeling your alcohol, it's not in your bloodstream/breastmilk to an extent it's getting passed on.

Personal experience, my favorite "safety drinking" that I've passed on to friends is to drink WHILE you're breastfeeding. Because it takes time to enter the system, baby's not getting it, and you don't have to worry about a surprise feeding while it's in your system.

Pumping and dumping is completely unnecessary UNLESS you're intoxicated and uncomfortable. At that point you can pump to relieve your discomfort, and you don't want baby drinking that milk. Otherwise, your body will burn the alcohol out of your milk.

As far as those test strips - I hate them. Even my breastfeeding class warned against them. They have absolutely no reliability and are marketed to prey on new mom fears. You don't need them. Please don't support companies who profit off the insecurities of women.

[kimberlyandthor2014]

I've been curious about this as well. My first daughter I totally steered clear of alcohol. Pregnant for 9 and nursed for 15 months made it a LONG time with no alcohol. This time I'm going to use a bit of caution and indulge carefully because for some reason this time around I am literally dying for some alcohol! I'm not normally a huge drinker but I like to indulge from time to time.

[schnurette]

My SILs both said they were told by their doctors (gotta love rural docs) that having a half a beer once in a while can help with production and won't hurt babe. I don't really drink to begin with so I will probably just skip it if I am breastfeeding. Although with 3 weddings and the associated partys for same I might actually miss it ?

[tahitiandreamin]

I came across an article recently in which Jack Newman, a paediatrician here in Canada who is considered THE breastfeeding guru in these parts, talked about drinking alcohol when breastfeeding. I can't find the exact article right now but here are some excerpts of interviews, etc., with him that I have found.

>>>>

What is your position on drinking and breastfeeding? MotherRisk has a chart on their site which states on average that women should wait two hours before the alcohol leaves their bloodstream before nursing, and that the pump and dump method does not work.

Jack Newman: I think that MotherRisk's position is neo-puritanical. The amount of alcohol in the milk is very small after a drink or two, much less than you would find in de-alcoholized beer. In most provinces, you are considered too drunk to drive if you have 0.08 per cent alcohol in your blood. If you have that amount in your blood, you have that amount in your milk. That's nothing. I don't understand MotherRisk's position. They are willing to tell mothers they can take all sorts of other drugs while breastfeeding (quite rightly) and are squeamish about alcohol.

>>>>

LLL with Jack Newman

Jack Newman Facebook

I stayed away from alcohol when BFing DD and if I did have an add 1/2 glass of wine it was always right after pumping. I think that this time around i won't be as afraid of having an odd glass here or there after DD gets to be a few months (and providing BFing works out this time around).

[laurenlou83]

I've been told by friends, and a few websites (kellymom being one of them) that if you're okay to drive, you're okay to breastfeed. I don't know how much of this is factual or not! I think it's a pretty good basis though when you think about it, right?!
I have also been told that if you are going to drink, drink while you BF, or immediately after you feed, that way it has time to break down before the next feeding.
Friends have also said, as mentioned above, pumping and dumping is like throwing away liquid gold so avoid it at all costs.

However, I'm a FTM, so who knows! I am trusting my friends and STMs here as valuable resources at this point

[Bluedaisy]

I'm a FTM so no first hand experience, I'm not a big drinker so it won't be a big deal for me, I might have a drink but I'm not worried about it. Totally with billyhorrible, though on the test strips...everything I've read has said they don't work and are just fear mongering.

[tulips114]

I don't worry about it because I never drink very much. Maybe a glass of wine with dinner or after the kids are in bed.

The one time I was nursing DD1 and got completely drunk on New Years I pumped and dumped in the morning, and that was it.

Most of what I've read lately says you don't really need to worry about it.

[islandgirl14]

Mar 25, 2015 0:26:57 GMT -5 billyhorrible said:

So like Girlymama79 referenced, alcohol enters and exits your breastmilk the same way it enters and exits your blood.

In general, if you feel tipsy, you shouldn't be breastfeeding, as that will pass it on to the baby. If you're not feeling your alcohol, it's not in your bloodstream/breastmilk to an extent it's getting passed on.

Personal experience, my favorite "safety drinking" that I've passed on to friends is to drink WHILE you're breastfeeding. Because it takes time to enter the system, baby's not getting it, and you don't have to worry about a surprise feeding while it's in your system.

Pumping and dumping is completely unnecessary UNLESS you're intoxicated and uncomfortable. At that point you can pump to relieve your discomfort, and you don't want baby drinking that milk. Otherwise, your body will burn the alcohol out of your milk.

As far as those test strips - I hate them. Even my breastfeeding class warned against them. They have absolutely no reliability and are marketed to prey on new mom fears. You don't need them. Please don't support companies who profit off the insecurities of women.

Pretty much this! My theory was always that if I could feel my alcohol, I shouldn't be BFing/pumping. I was always very careful about limiting my intake to a half of a drink or a drink, depending on what I thought I could handle. I never bothered with the test trips... I used my own judgment. TBH, there was one night where I decided to let loose and let myself get tipsy knowing I would pump and dump, it was the worst thing ever!! Spending the work/time pumping and having to dump all that liquid gold down the drain was enough to make me never want to do it again! So I didn't... haha... It was a hard lesson learned.

[wink568]

I've heard/read the same thing about the alcohol being the same as your BAC from multiple sources, so I'll be partaking in the if you're good to drive you're good to nurse frame of mind. If below the legal limit and breast-milk contains the same distribution as your BAC, then your breast-milk is less than .08%, which is like the same amount of alcohol in a glass of fruit juice (not that babies should have fruit juice either, lol).

I'll definitely limit my consumption, but I won't be as black and white as I am now. I love to try new beers when the opportunity presents itself, so I'll probably return to having one here and there, maybe two if I had just recently nursed or pumped. Probably won't be getting sloshed anytime soon, since I'd hate to get to the point where I'm engorged and forced to pump and dump if alcohol is still in my system.

[veggiemo]

billyhorrible Serious question (not snarky or arguing your point): what is so bad about the test strips? By not reliable, do you mean not accurate? I had no "fear" as a FTM using them, it was legitimately to see if in the morning my breast milk was clear or not after a night of partying. Some of those weighing in on this topic end the post by saying "I'm not a big drinker". Well I guess I'll throw myself out there and say I am a big drinker and definitely had a few nights of getting drunk in the 6 months I was (exclusively) breastfeeding DS. Twice that I can remember I woke up the next morning and had to pump and dump that night's milk because the test strips said there was still alcohol in my blood/milk. Yeah, I'm not making myself sound very great here right now, but I just want to be honest for anyone else who might come upon a similar situation. If we are talking about a glass of wine with dinner, then no, test strips are unnecessary. But not everyone out there is an occasional light drinker. Well now that I just totally made myself look like the worst mother on the planet, you guys can all flame away if you like. But I would like to know more on your opinion billy, if you don't mind offering.

[sugarkissed]

DD refused to take a bottle and I was too nervous to drink anything because of that. It doesn't take much to make me tipsy.

I had a few glorious glasses of wine once I'd finally weaned her… and then got a BFP a week later! One day I'll reunite with wine again! Haha.

[ThePalindromicOne]

veggiemo I was going to post that same thing along the lines of... "So what do bigger drinkers do? Or what about the occassion where I intend to probably drink beyond tipsy?" I've got a few events in mind (weddings and such) - I imagine a few pump and dumps in my future.

I'm not sure if this was a great idea, but I had a girlfriend that didn't dump... but she kept diluting the boozy pumps with cleaner pumps... you know to spread it out.... it's an interesting approach.

[laurenlou83]

veggiemo, I'm a FTM so this is all new to me, but I just want to say that I don't judge you, nor will I flame you, for your honesty! I myself am not a "light drinker", nor have I ever considered myself one! I like drinking, plain and simple.
BFing my child is obviously very important to me, so I will make proper judgments and decisions when it comes to when I should/shouldn't drink or if dumping my milk is the best option.
I plan on using the test strips, because even if they aren't 100% accurate, they can at least give me an idea of where I am at!

[noeliav]

I'll go read others' comments in a sec, but I never pumped and dumped. There was never a reason to do so for us. I had a *very* low tolerance for alcohol postpartum and throughout the first 18m. As in, I'd have a few sips of a beer or wine, and immediately feel buzzy. So, mostly, I just don't drink anymore. A taste of someone else's drink here and there, but nothing else. I actually had my first full drink after DD's birth in late July 2014, lol.

[noeliav]

veggiemo
The test strips are stupid (imo) and create a culture of fear around BFing and drinking because they are entirely unnecessary.

The pump and dump guideline is straightforward, at least to me: do you feel tispy right at the moment you're sitting down to feed the baby? If no, KOKO mama. If yes, get the baby a bottle and wait out your tipsiness. If you feel tipsy and uncomfortable (engorged), *then* go ahead and pump and dump.

[noeliav]

Mar 25, 2015 8:33:59 GMT -5 islandgirl14 said:

Mar 25, 2015 0:26:57 GMT -5 billyhorrible said:

So like Girlymama79 referenced, alcohol enters and exits your breastmilk the same way it enters and exits your blood.

In general, if you feel tipsy, you shouldn't be breastfeeding, as that will pass it on to the baby. If you're not feeling your alcohol, it's not in your bloodstream/breastmilk to an extent it's getting passed on.

Personal experience, my favorite "safety drinking" that I've passed on to friends is to drink WHILE you're breastfeeding. Because it takes time to enter the system, baby's not getting it, and you don't have to worry about a surprise feeding while it's in your system.

Pumping and dumping is completely unnecessary UNLESS you're intoxicated and uncomfortable. At that point you can pump to relieve your discomfort, and you don't want baby drinking that milk. Otherwise, your body will burn the alcohol out of your milk.

As far as those test strips - I hate them. Even my breastfeeding class warned against them. They have absolutely no reliability and are marketed to prey on new mom fears. You don't need them. Please don't support companies who profit off the insecurities of women.

Pretty much this! My theory was always that if I could feel my alcohol, I shouldn't be BFing/pumping. I was always very careful about limiting my intake to a half of a drink or a drink, depending on what I thought I could handle. I never bothered with the test trips... I used my own judgment. TBH, there was one night where I decided to let loose and let myself get tipsy knowing I would pump and dump, it was the worst thing ever!! Spending the work/time pumping and having to dump all that liquid gold down the drain was enough to make me never want to do it again! So I didn't... haha... It was a hard lesson learned.

I had an event (that I was working) when DD was about 5m old, and an attendee invited me out for a drink because DD was sleeping. He casually told me "Oh, just pump and dump!" To which I said, "Friend, that tells me that you've never pumped a second in your life because, if you had, you would never ever suggest that!" lol

[belle0720]

I read an article about this a while back where the writer did a series of hourly tests on her breast milk after one glass of wine, two glasses of wine, and three glasses of wine. And similar to what a couple of PPs have said even after the three glasses of wine there was only about .08% alcohol in the breast milk and after every hour the content decreased.

That said, I'm not worried about having a glass or two of wine and breast feeding/pumping. And there just aren't many occasions where I'm drinking more than that. It actually gets on my nerves every time I've heard someone tell me(and several women have done so) that I still won't be able to drink after the baby is born if I'm breastfeeding. 1)They're wrong 2)I have no intention of taking body shots like I'm a college student on spring break and then turning around and feeding baby lunch.

[belle0720]

veggiemo You don't sound like the 'worst mother on the planet' at all and it bothers me that there's even a stigma that would make you feel like that. I wouldn't say I'm a light drinker, I usually have a glass or two of wine (or sometimes beer) probably twice a week. It's not often that I drink more than that and (after learning what I can handle in college) I very rarely drink hard alcohol. Weddings, birthdays, and maybe NYE would be occasions that I drink more than usual. I would probably do what you explained and use the test strips after a night like that and dump if necessary. I don't feel any shame in that. In fact, my little sister asked me if I'll be able to drink at her wedding at the end of November and I said hell yeah--are you crazy?! Of course I'm drinking at your wedding!

[tiffbot]

Just following along as I was pretty cautious with DS (I was overly cautious about EVERYTHING with him) and based on the fact I've been more laid back in general this pregnancy, I'm going to assume Im going to be more laid back with baby. So want to see what others have done.

veggiemo reading your post it never even crossed my mind to think you were being a 'bad mother'.

[veggiemo]

Mar 25, 2015 10:20:01 GMT -5 noeliav said:

veggiemo
The test strips are stupid (imo) and create a culture of fear around BFing and drinking because they are entirely unnecessary.

The pump and dump guideline is straightforward, at least to me: do you feel tispy right at the moment you're sitting down to feed the baby? If no, KOKO mama. If yes, get the baby a bottle and wait out your tipsiness. If you feel tipsy and uncomfortable (engorged), *then* go ahead and pump and dump.

Ok, two of you have now said they create a "fear". I'm not afraid of drinking while pregnant or nursing. I still have an occasional beer right now at 30 weeks. No fear involved. What I'm saying is there are people like me who have used them for their intended purpose and if that's the case, why are they so stupid? For me it seems they were necessary because I woke up in the morning, I felt fine to drive, etc., but my test strip came out positive. Maybe they are entirely unnecessary for you, or any other light drinker out there, but they still work for people who want to get drunk at their sister's wedding, right?

[noeliav]

veggiemo
"Fear" because I think it reinforces the impression that one cannot have a glass or two of wine *and* be a "good (breastfeeding) mother." Which we know is not true.

I'm glad the strips worked for you. I don't know how you could have felt fine to drive yet still turned a strip positive. I really don't have the background there. Could the strip have been defective or over sensitive? Did you get the same result with a second strip?

[veggiemo]

Mar 25, 2015 11:19:05 GMT -5 noeliav said:

veggiemo
"Fear" because I think it reinforces the impression that one cannot have a glass or two of wine *and* be a "good (breastfeeding) mother." Which we know is not true.

I'm glad the strips worked for you. I don't know how you could have felt fine to drive yet still turned a strip positive. I really don't have the background there. Could the strip have been defective or over sensitive? Did you get the same result with a second strip?

Ha. Because I drank a ton. Coming from a lush here, you can wake up in the morning and feel a little "off" from drinking the night before and just be hungover, or you can actually still have alcohol in your blood. Honestly, I knew before I even took the tests that it was probably going to turn positive just based on the amount I drank, but it was still nice to be able to test my milk a few hours later and see a negative result and feel good/safe about giving it to DS. Look at me, I'm just laying it all out there today!

And just to clarify, I completely get what you mean about the fear or impression the strips can possibly reinforce. But my argument was that it's not ALWAYS the case.

[billyhorrible]

veggiemo, I by no means think you're a bad mother for drinking. I'm very impressed with the fact that there are mothers who can survive for long periods of time without alcohol! It's hard work!

The test strips are "unreliable" because they have a tendency to show "alcohol" even when miniscule amounts are present, like less than .01%. Which makes mothers afraid to breastfeed even though they are fine to do so. And causes them to "pump and dump" which is a waste of time and resources. I would bet that even after a night of drinking, you probably didn't need to pump and dump. And if you hadn't been relying on those test strips that's a couple ounces you could have saved.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with going beyond tipsy. I only use that as a starting point. I don't recommend anyone getting blackout drunk when they're taking care of a baby, but assuming someone else is responsible for the child during the time period, then that's not even such an issue. So say you go out with the girls while DH is home with the baby. You have 5 or 6 drinks and are definitely feeling it. You take a taxi home (because you're smart and not going to drive drunk). The point is, you don't have to pump and dump your breastmilk. If baby's ready to eat, give him some stored breastmilk and just skip that feeding. Depending on how often your kid eats, you'll probably be sober for the next feeding. The alcohol will metabolize right out of that milk (and there was a study done on rats that showed that lactating rats actually have less alcohol in their blood/breastmilk than their non-lactating counterparts). If skipping that feeding leaves you uncomfortably full, then by all means pump enough to relieve that and dump it, but you don't need to "empty" your breast because the alcohol isn't stored in that milk.