Raising a gender non-conforming child

[somethingcleverer]

I posted this on my facebook yesterday but I think it might have been buried in my feed. I was wondering what j12 thought of this:

nowirehangerseverblog.com/2015/04/23/what-i-want-people-to-understand-about-raising-a-gender-non-conforming-child/

[paddyb]

I read this when you posted on FB. My H and I talked about it and agreed that if Henry or Greta showed a preference for clothes etc of the opposite gender we would have no problem allowing them to dress the way they wanted. I feel like it is actually much easier at 4 or 5 then once puberty hits. For example, I'm not sure I would allow them to start hormone therapy prior to puberty...what if it is a chemical imbalance that is corrected by puberty? I would need to do extensive research and see what, if anything the research says about that.
I wouldn't want to make any "permanent" changes until they were older.

[bantyrooster]

Love. I don't care if my kids conform or not. Like this mom I want them happy. If they are gay, straight, bisexual, purple, blue, or dress different. I also will raise my kids to be accepting of everyone. Even if it is a little boy in a dress.

[origamimommy]

As Tyler gets older, I grow more and more frustrated with gender norms. Tyler pretty much conforms to stereotypes of a boy. But even little things get to me: the fact that he wants all of the avengers but they don't make / sell black widow and he doesn't understand why, the face painting lady getting in his shit about the butterfly, it goes on but it's just constant little things that piss me off.

One of my coworkers has a daughter that plays lacrosse and when it rained on Monday, the principle (a man) canceled girls lacrosse because "the girls don't want to get muddy" but the boys had practice. It's fucking bullshit.

So basically I love this article. I think more people are accepting of this type of thing, but we have a long way to go. A little compassion can take us a long way.

[britbratjf]

I think that it would be incredibly hard being in this situation and the kudos to the parents for handlling it like they are.

[mrsrek10]

No matter what James Austin grows up like... transgender, gay, heterosexual, murderer, saint, learning disability, mental health issues... whatever he grows up to be/have/feel, I will love him unconditionally. I would support him as best I can and would love him all the same.

[britbratjf]

Apr 24, 2015 21:08:06 GMT -5 origamimommy said:

As Tyler gets older, I grow more and more frustrated with gender norms. Tyler pretty much conforms to stereotypes of a boy. But even little things get to me: the fact that he wants all of the avengers but they don't make / sell black widow and he doesn't understand why, the face painting lady getting in his shit about the butterfly, it goes on but it's just constant little things that piss me off.

One of my coworkers has a daughter that plays lacrosse and when it rained on Monday, the principle (a man) canceled girls lacrosse because "the girls don't want to get muddy" but the boys had practice. It's fucking bullshit.

So basically I love this article. I think more people are accepting of this type of thing, but we have a long way to go. A little compassion can take us a long way.

So along these lines my nephew is 3 and he likes to play dress up with his sister and when Dagny got high heels for Xmas he wore them around the rest of the day.  He also likes to play with purses.  I mean he's also super into Ninja turtles and sports so it's not like he's like this little boy where he exclusively wants to wear girls clothes and play with girl things.  But its super annoying because MIL and BIL are always commenting on it.  JEEZ people he is 3 freaking years old AND has an older sister who he sees playing with this stuff.  There is nothing wrong with him playing with girl things.  Even if he does turn out to be gay or whatever who cares?  Its not like playing with the girl stuff is going to TURN him gay.  Drives me up the wall.  

Also I feel like this is an issue more for boys than girls.  (origamimommy, your example aside)  I don't feel like people bat an eye as much at girls dressing like boys or being really into sports.  Maybe thats just me though.

[origamimommy]

britbratjf I agree! We're signing Tyler up for dance lessons when he turns 3, and my fil, who LOVES Tyler, has a big ass problem with it. Get over yourself, he's a kid with a lot of energy and loves to dance.

Tyler also sees me putting on makeup in the morning and wants some. I'll pretend to put some on--I'm his mom and he's copying me. It's ridiculous honestly. This is a topic that gets me heated, because of a lot of reasons.

Not just because of gender non conforming kids, but pigeonholing kids so young. It drives me crazy. Seriously--this and vaccines. My hills, for sure.

[somethingcleverer]

Sorry for posting the article again but I should have just posted here in the first place.

I also thought the way this family is handling their child's preference is awesome. I'm not sure we are that brave. I feel like I try to a point but I don't know how I would handle Shane wearing a dress. Also I think it's kind of funny that the pressure is on boys to conform more than girls because I just can't think of the social equal for a girl. If a girl dresses is boyish or is into sports she's a tomboy but that's not the same as a boy dressing in girls clothes. I really felt a connection with this mom because shane likes jewelry and tutus as much as he likes superheroes and vampires lol. My mom has made a comment about me confusing him when he wanted to wear a princess bracelet and I just realized I don't want to tell him that wearing a bracelet is wrong, Or that he can't try on the tutu I made his sister, it's not like men can't be famous ballerinas. I just want him to be who he is and not feel bad about anything he likes. The same goes for whatever aubrey is into too, I would never discourage sports, boyish clothes or anything else that isn't typically girly. I just want my kids to be who they are comfortable being.

[bantyrooster]

Gage wears my necklaces to church all the time. I rarely wear them and he then wants one. Who cares? He shows it off. H wore necklaces in the 90's when all guys did. And he is a "mans man. " If Gage wanted to wear nail polish like me and Ellison who cares? I guess I just don't see a problem. I feel like "tom boys " aka girls are okay to do boy things but not the other way around.

[mightybee]

Apr 24, 2015 21:17:08 GMT -5 mrsrek10 said:

No matter what James Austin grows up like... transgender, gay, heterosexual, murderer, saint, learning disability, mental health issues... whatever he grows up to be/have/feel, I will love him unconditionally. I would support him as best I can and would love him all the same.

The "murderer" one really made me pause and think. How will I feel if one of my kids becomes a murderer? For me, this is definitely in a different class than the other things listed. Would I really love them the same? That is tough to think about.

[mrsrek10]

Apr 24, 2015 21:57:29 GMT -5 mightybee said:

Apr 24, 2015 21:17:08 GMT -5 mrsrek10 said:

No matter what James Austin grows up like... transgender, gay, heterosexual, murderer, saint, learning disability, mental health issues... whatever he grows up to be/have/feel, I will love him unconditionally. I would support him as best I can and would love him all the same.

The "murderer" one really made me pause and think. How will I feel if one of my kids becomes a murderer? For me, this is definitely in a different class than the other things listed. Would I really love them the same? That is tough to think about.

I am not saying I would not feel pain, agonizing pain, and mourning for all involved but I do believe that at the end of the day I would still love him as my little boy. Of course, I hope to never test my theory! Also, not sure if this is one of those southern sayings/thoughts, but my momma raised me with the idea of "I love you but I don't like you right now". All of my friends have heard that same line. Basically, the idea that your momma doesn't have to like you/your actions/agree with you but she still loves you. I heard that many times as a teenager! Lol

[lizwinderson]

Anderson is a stereotypical boy...who also loves to help me put on makeup and tries on my jewelry. And that is fine by me. He is experimenting. I would love him either way. But I think I would lie if I said him deciding to be a woman woildnt hurt a part of me initially. Mainly because I have a vision of the man I think he will become. But as a mom, I vowed to give him my support and love.

And I read a research study about mothers of mass murderers and they all still see their son as "just a little boy". It kinda creeps me out that these women see their serial killer child as an innocent.

[mightybee]

Apr 24, 2015 22:33:06 GMT -5 mrsrek10 said:

Apr 24, 2015 21:57:29 GMT -5 mightybee said:

The "murderer" one really made me pause and think. How will I feel if one of my kids becomes a murderer? For me, this is definitely in a different class than the other things listed. Would I really love them the same? That is tough to think about.

I am not saying I would not feel pain, agonizing pain, and mourning for all involved but I do believe that at the end of the day I would still love him as my little boy. Of course, I hope to never test my theory! Also, not sure if this is one of those southern sayings/thoughts, but my momma raised me with the idea of "I love you but I don't like you right now". All of my friends have heard that same line. Basically, the idea that your momma doesn't have to like you/your actions/agree with you but she still loves you. I heard that many times as a teenager! Lol

I agree that being in that situation would be agonizing. As a parent, I would wonder if there was something I did or didn't do or some sign I missed that contributed to my child's actions.

I think the "I love you, but don't like you right now" has applied to my Toddler on a few occasions already! Hahaha.

[trixi282]

I most certainly would be supportive of my child no matter what their preferences.  My H and I have talked about preferences before, but haven't ever really talked about transgender situations or something specific like this.  I won't lie and say it would be easy, but I do know I would support my child in whatever makes them happy. 

J definitely likes things like Super Heros, baseball, and other things that "Daddy Do's" or "Grandpa Do's" and I'm ok with her learning all kinds of things, I did growing up too.  I'd be pissed if something happened like origamimommy mentioned about the girls lacrosse being cancelled while the boys still practiced.  Why should they be any different?  I'm still irritated about the whole face painting situation with you too... that just irks me because I know J likes superheros too, and if she wanted a Captain America face and the person tried to talk her into something else I would 100% say something immediately about how she can have whatever she asked for. 

Apr 24, 2015 22:33:06 GMT -5 mrsrek10 said:

I am not saying I would not feel pain, agonizing pain, and mourning for all involved but I do believe that at the end of the day I would still love him as my little boy. Of course, I hope to never test my theory! Also, not sure if this is one of those southern sayings/thoughts, but my momma raised me with the idea of "I love you but I don't like you right now". All of my friends have heard that same line. Basically, the idea that your momma doesn't have to like you/your actions/agree with you but she still loves you. I heard that many times as a teenager! Lol

I have said this to H more than a few times throughout our relationship. I don't recall if my mom ever said it to me, but I've had plenty of moments with J where I felt the same way!

[origamimommy]

trixi282 exactly! Why should tiny kids be forced to like girl / boy things? Are Tyler and Joey going to be transgendered for liking things out of their gender norms? Probably not. But if they are then so the fuck what?

[mommymadness]

I took a gender studies course in university and loved it! My prof was awesome. She hates gender stereo types and often would buy trucks for her friends little girls and tea sets for the boys!
I remember there was a paper she got us to read, I can't remember if it was a study done or not but a couple had a baby and the swore never to tell anyone the sex. Like they called it baby x! They never said he or she, bought both type of clothing, or maybe just wore neutral. This was to see if the child really did choose "girl" things if it was a girl or "boy" things if it was a boy. Or if they were just all created by stereo types. Anyway it was really interesting!!
I let Benjamin have painted toes anytime he asks. He currently has navy. He also plays dress up with his girl cousin and wears fancy things. I could care less! I definitely see differences in opinion though from my parents and it annoys me!

[versed]

Defying gender norms definitely has been one of my hills, too.

It completely pisses me off that it's "adorable" for my nieces to be obsessed with TMNT, but it's a disgrace that my son picked a Barbie toy for his happy meal. My MIL calls it his "girlfriend." Ugh.

Also, heaven forbid he wants anything pink.

My MIL bought niece a pink Paw Patrol tee, and two were delivered by mistake. Amazon said just keep it. MIL said, "if it weren't pink, A could have it." My reply: "If it weren't PP, I'd let A have it. The pink doesn't bother me." She looked confused.

[sarasansh]

Late to the game, but gender norms are definitely one of my hills. Being raised by two women, I watched my moms do all sorts of things that were gender atypical, especially for the 80s, and I think that really set a strong example for me.

Robin, as far as I can tell and as far as he expresses, is cisgendered. Which is fine, and honestly I'm a little relieved because it will make his life a much easier road than if he felt some kind of gender dysphoria. And in the realm of being a totally normal boy, he loves both trucks and butterflies, pink and green, flowers and airplanes, and all sorts of things in between. Both MH and I are on the same page that there are not boy things and girl things when it comes to activities, clothing, interests, colors, etc. When I was pregnant and he was still an infant, we had the "What if Robin wanted to wear a dress to school?" conversation and talked it through to make sure we were both on the same page (we would, and we would support it wholeheartedly if that's what made him happy.)

In connection to gender norms, my other connected hill (my mountain range?) is sexual identity/orientation. I hate when people make comments like, "Oh, he's going to be a ladykiller when he's older!" I know it's meant as a compliment, that they think he is well mannered and cute, but it bothers me to have it expressed like that. Because he might be gay, and that's totally okay too. I want to mama bear protect him from absorbing as many stereotypes about sexual and gender identity as long as possible.

I read in an article a few months ago--I think it was on Buzzfeed, actually--about things parents did that helped made their teens feel comfortable coming out to them, and one kid wrote about how he realized his parents never said to him, "When you have a wife..." or "when you have a girlfriend...", they always used terms like "the person you love," "your partner," "the person you want to spend your life with," and I really liked that. That's something I'd like to try hard to do with Robin, to help him realize that our only expectations for his personal life is that he finds an equal partner that he loves deeply.

[paddyb]

Apr 27, 2015 12:59:52 GMT -5 sarasansh said:

Late to the game, but gender norms are definitely one of my hills. Being raised by two women, I watched my moms do all sorts of things that were gender atypical, especially for the 80s, and I think that really set a strong example for me.

Robin, as far as I can tell and as far as he expresses, is cisgendered. Which is fine, and honestly I'm a little relieved because it will make his life a much easier road than if he felt some kind of gender dysphoria. And in the realm of being a totally normal boy, he loves both trucks and butterflies, pink and green, flowers and airplanes, and all sorts of things in between. Both MH and I are on the same page that there are not boy things and girl things when it comes to activities, clothing, interests, colors, etc. When I was pregnant and he was still an infant, we had the "What if Robin wanted to wear a dress to school?" conversation and talked it through to make sure we were both on the same page (we would, and we would support it wholeheartedly if that's what made him happy.)

In connection to gender norms, my other connected hill (my mountain range?) is sexual identity/orientation. I hate when people make comments like, "Oh, he's going to be a ladykiller when he's older!" I know it's meant as a compliment, that they think he is well mannered and cute, but it bothers me to have it expressed like that. Because he might be gay, and that's totally okay too. I want to mama bear protect him from absorbing as many stereotypes about sexual and gender identity as long as possible.

I read in an article a few months ago--I think it was on Buzzfeed, actually--about things parents did that helped made their teens feel comfortable coming out to them, and one kid wrote about how he realized his parents never said to him, "When you have a wife..." or "when you have a girlfriend...", they always used terms like "the person you love," "your partner," "the person you want to spend your life with," and I really liked that. That's something I'd like to try hard to do with Robin, to help him realize that our only expectations for his personal life is that he finds an equal partner that he loves deeply.

I totally agree with the everything you said. I have been also started thinking about the fact that we will need to be careful about saying "the person you Love" etc. I don't want to make assumptions and I don't want either of them to think there is an expectation of who their partner will be.

[mightybee]

Regarding gender norms, I feel strongly about not reinforcing negative gender sterotypes we have in our culture, so I was surprised to catch mself saying "pretty girl" to Paige. It just came out of my mouth! It seems harmless, but I don't want to start a trend where I place an emphasis her appearance (over important character traits and strong values).

[paddyb]

Apr 27, 2015 15:55:49 GMT -5 mightybee said:

Regarding gender norms, I feel strongly about not reinforcing negative gender sterotypes we have in our culture, so I was surprised to catch mself saying "pretty girl" to Paige. It just came out of my mouth! It seems harmless, but I don't want to start a trend where I place an emphasis her appearance (over important character traits and strong values).

I was just talking to my husband the other day how we need to cut down/cut out saying that to Greta!  It is important to me that she not think her primary worth comes from her looks.

[mrsrek10]

Apr 27, 2015 16:05:05 GMT -5 paddyb said:

Apr 27, 2015 15:55:49 GMT -5 mightybee said:

Regarding gender norms, I feel strongly about not reinforcing negative gender sterotypes we have in our culture, so I was surprised to catch mself saying "pretty girl" to Paige. It just came out of my mouth! It seems harmless, but I don't want to start a trend where I place an emphasis her appearance (over important character traits and strong values).

I was just talking to my husband the other day how we need to cut down/cut out saying that to Greta!  It is important to me that she not think her primary worth comes from her looks.

I think it is all about balance. You don't want the pendulum to swing too far the other way and a girl to feel insecure about her looks. I think the balance comes in reinforcing all aspects of your child...from their brain to their beauty and all the in-betweens.

[paddyb]

Apr 27, 2015 22:44:26 GMT -5 mrsrek10 said:

Apr 27, 2015 16:05:05 GMT -5 paddyb said:

I was just talking to my husband the other day how we need to cut down/cut out saying that to Greta!  It is important to me that she not think her primary worth comes from her looks.

I think it is all about balance. You don't want the pendulum to swing too far the other way and a girl to feel insecure about her looks. I think the balance comes in reinforcing all aspects of your child...from their brain to their beauty and all the in-betweens.

I agree about balance. However, I am guessing/assuming most of her interactions with others will have a focus on her looks. It is just how society tends to respond - I know it is my first reaction when I see my niece, I have to fight against it/be more aware to make sure I also interact/praise her for other things. Because most of the feedback from others will be based on looks, I think it is important as her parents to really focus on the other things!