Bring your conspiracy theories here. (aka. Serial thread)

[toratoratori]

(Calling dashofreality!)

I am unconvinced that Adnan killed anyone. I think Jay is a lying little liar. The only thing I know for sure is that Adnan's attorney was a loon and he didn't get a fair trial.

I know Adnan currently has an appeal going through the Maryland courts. I'm interested to see how that pans out.

[pitta12]

I'm only on episode 5 so too soon to really weigh in, but the story is so fascinating! Seems like a whole confluence of errors and lies and dropped balls along the way, and so far none of these people really seem fully believable at all.

[clldll]

I think Adnan knows something, but I don't think he killed her.

Jay and Jenn are both full of it. Something is fishy with their timeline vs what the call records say. I don't necessarily think they killed Hae though. I do think they are covering something up, possibly another crime, and they definitely were involved in the cleanup of the murder if not the murder itself.

[toratoratori]

Jan 21, 2015 18:03:42 GMT -5 privacy said:

I'm on the Adnan killed her, but should have been acquitted bench.

I was undecided until I learned that his long time appellate attorney did not want him to get the DNA testing (implying he knows it will not be good results); and also that the mosque witness pled the 5th (self incrimination) and not a privilege

Interestingggggg. I hadn't heard that about the DNA. But aren't they appealing to test the DNA evidence now through the Innocence Project?

[toratoratori]

Jan 21, 2015 18:37:09 GMT -5 clldll said:

I think Adnan knows something, but I don't think he killed her.

Jay and Jenn are both full of it. Something is fishy with their timeline vs what the call records say. I don't necessarily think they killed Hae though. I do think they are covering something up, possibly another crime, and they definitely were involved in the cleanup of the murder if not the murder itself.

Literally NO ONE'S timeline matches up with anyone else's. It makes me CRAZY. Like how can ten different people have such wildly different accounts of the same day?!

[SugarMagnolia]

I have two episodes left.  I totally think Jay did it and Adnan isn't innocent, but I'm not sure he killed her.  I think Adnan's trial attorney was a joke and completely useless.  I'm an attorney too and I don't think Adnan has been honest about his involvement. (Not that clients are ever honest.) I can't wait to see what the Maryland Court of Appeals says.

[toratoratori]

Jan 21, 2015 19:06:48 GMT -5 privacy said:

Jan 21, 2015 18:57:54 GMT -5 toratoratori said:

Interestingggggg. I hadn't heard that about the DNA. But aren't they appealing to test the DNA evidence now through the Innocence Project?

Yes they are, sort of.  There's an appeal AND also a motion to have the DNA tested. In the last episode Sarah mentioned that Adnan as torn over what to do because his appellate attorney was advising him not to make the motion for the DNA testing, and the innocence project was pushing it. Ultimately he told the Innocence project go ahead.

I guess for me (i'm an attorney) I know that often times it's years before your client really tells you the truth.  And while because of attorney-client privilege the Appellate attorney can't be like "oh yeah, adnan totally did it, but there were still problems with his trial so my appeal is valid."  And Adnan isn't going to say "oh yeah I totally did it, but I shouldn't have been convicted."  And the attorney isn't going to say "I advised him not to take the DNA motion because I know he did it and I'm afraid Adnan's DNA will be a match." But he will advise his client that way, and the client Adnan will share "attorney advised me  not to do it." but will leave out the whole Why

How many years is "years," though? Because one of the things that surprised me about Serial was the assertion that it's unusual for a guilty party to maintain their innocence for as long as Adnan has. Like five years before he caved, I could see. But he's been in prison almost half his life at this point. I feel like if he really did it, he would have admitted it by now. Or is that naive of me? I can't decide.

[toratoratori]

Jan 21, 2015 19:07:08 GMT -5 SugarMagnolia said:

I think Adnan's trial attorney was a joke and completely useless.

So what you're SAYING is that his ATTORNEY was not useful, ARE YOU NOT? So the answer to my QUESTION is YES, his ATTORNEY was not useful, IS IT NOT?

God, the recordings of that woman at trial made me cringe. I have zero legal training and probably could have done a better job.

[sandandsea]

Haha. I too think he got the worst possible attorney. She was sooo annoying! I have no idea who did it. But jay is totally lying and should be in jail and knows exactly what happened. Adnon is also lying but I don't think he actually did it. I hate that they all tell different stories because I just want to believe everyone and then realize how gullible I am and feel stupid.

[dashofreality]

Yay! So here is where I am: 1. End of Serial I was in the Adnan did it, but should've been acquitted camp. 2. After spiraling on the internet, I think there is a possibility that Adnan didn't do it, and Jay did.

I have lots of questions though, and after reading more, I feel like after a year and 12 episodes, Sarah still left out a lot of pertinent tidbits. One of my biggest questions though is how Adnan's lawyer ever was in demand. I cannot imagine having to listen to her for weeks as a juror.

[dashofreality]

Jan 21, 2015 18:03:42 GMT -5 privacy said:

I'm on the Adnan killed her, but should have been acquitted bench.

I was undecided until I learned that his long time appellate attorney did not want him to get the DNA testing (implying he knows it will not be good results); and also that the mosque witness pled the 5th (self incrimination) and not a privilege

I had not seen the DNA testing bit. That is definitely incriminating. I do not believe the mosque witness is correct though. Rabia addressed it on her blog; paragraph 8 & 9  drive.google.com/file/d/0ByTc5P7odcLHNmJnTlAyeW93bGM/view

[dashofreality]

One last one for now (since I am talking to myself this early in the morning). This is what started my spiral: www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2n15kb/how_jay_killed_hae_with_adnan_none_the_wiser/

I do think there are some issues with this, but I will admit that I am influenced by motive/gut (don't worry I don't represent clients). I thought Adnan did it mainly because I could not see any reason why Jay would, but then I found additional info that made it a possibility. I also have a very hard time believing that this was premeditated, especially by Adnan, who I think would do a better job of having an alibi etc.

Question marks for me:

1. The charge on Hae's credit card. Why wasn't that looked into?
2. Track alibi. There had to be how many people at track that day? No one said he was there?
3. Urick and him procuring the lawyer. That still seems crazy to me.
4. Jay's deal. Was he a confidential informant? How did he get such a sweet deal?
5. Leakin Park pings, with Adnan saying he had his phone at this point. I can't get around this, it seems that Adnan was involved. And if he was involved then I think he killed her, otherwise he would've turned on Jay.

[clldll]

Jan 22, 2015 6:55:55 GMT -5 dashofreality said:

Yay! So here is where I am: 1. End of Serial I was in the Adnan did it, but should've been acquitted camp. 2. After spiraling on the internet, I think there is a possibility that Adnan didn't do it, and Jay did.

I have lots of questions though, and after reading more, I feel like after a year and 12 episodes, Sarah still left out a lot of pertinent tidbits. One of my biggest questions though is how Adnan's lawyer ever was in demand. I cannot imagine having to listen to her for weeks as a juror.

I have to keep reminding myself that the podcast was made to be entertainment, not to give all us aspiring amateur sleuths all the details we want.  It frustrates me, but I suppose there are probably reasons for her leaving things out.  Perhaps the biggest being Adnan's appeal & also not wanting to accuse someone of something without proof. 

From your list of questions: 

2.) I get the track alibi thing.  My son does karate 2 nights a week.  I take him and sit through an hour of what feels like the same thing over and over.  There's no way I'd be able to tell you which kid (or parent that a I spoke to) was there and who wasn't.  Especially if I wasn't asked about it for several weeks afterward. It's kind of one of those things in life you go through on autopilot unless something out of the ordinary happens. 

4.) This is a huge question mark for me too. I want to know more.  And I want to know what was said off tape between the officers and Jay.

5.) This bothered me too.  A Reddit thread (I'll have to see if I can find it again) had some really good maps showing where everything was and the range of all the cell towers in the area.  Their theory was that Adnan could have been somewhere other than Leakin Park and still ping off that tower.  A few of his calls earlier in the day (where it's whereabouts weren't in question) pinged off towers you wouldn't expect them to ping off of. 


ETA:  This isn't quite the map I was thinking of, but it's similar.

i.imgur.com/bJOjwVK.jpg

[dovetail223]

I haven't gone down the reddit rabbit hole, but I've always thought this was drug related. I suspect jay and adnon were way more involved with drug selling and distribution than they ever admitted and that is where they were that morning. I think someone from that gang killed Hae and made Jay help. They instructed Jay to lie that Adnon did it, and threatened the same fate to Stephanie if he didn't comply. That is the only reason I can think that he would have lied and stuck with the lie. It also explains why he was so afraid.

[theborg7of9]

I think jay is covering for someone else who he is scared of.

[dashofreality]

Interesting that dovetail223 and theborg7of9 think that there was a 3rd person. I have a hard time believing that, solely because if that is the case then the stars really had to align for certain evidence to be against Adnan and he really was 'unlucky'.

I could believe that Hae saw Adnan's car, flagged him down on her way to pick up her cousin. Didn't realize it was Jay. She made some comment about him cheating on Stefanie (she said she wanted to confront him) and Jay snapped. Afterwards he panicked, lots of calls, got Jenn involved, and he was terrified that he would get caught. I do admit that this is unlikely, but I think plausible.

[pitta12]

I've been thinking of the drug angle, too, and that someone forced Jay to frame Adnan for it. Just seems like Jay and Adnan were both up to something they are not willing to discuss even after all this time, which makes me think someone in prison could get to them if they did, etc.

[toratoratori]

Jan 22, 2015 9:51:49 GMT -5 dashofreality said:

Interesting that dovetail223 and theborg7of9 think that there was a 3rd person. I have a hard time believing that, solely because if that is the case then the stars really had to align for certain evidence to be against Adnan and he really was 'unlucky'.

I could believe that Hae saw Adnan's car, flagged him down on her way to pick up her cousin. Didn't realize it was Jay. She made some comment about him cheating on Stefanie (she said she wanted to confront him) and Jay snapped. Afterwards he panicked, lots of calls, got Jenn involved, and he was terrified that he would get caught. I do admit that this is unlikely, but I think plausible.

I had forgotten about the whole Stephanie thing. I like this theory! But it still doesn't explain why Adnan lent Jay his car in the first place. Who just gives their car and phone to an outer-circle acquaintance?

[dashofreality]

Jan 22, 2015 14:55:22 GMT -5 toratoratori said:

Jan 22, 2015 9:51:49 GMT -5 dashofreality said:

I had forgotten about the whole Stephanie thing. I like this theory! But it still doesn't explain why Adnan lent Jay his car in the first place. Who just gives their car and phone to an outer-circle acquaintance?

Well I'm not sure I buy the outer-circle acquaintance thing but even if it is actually true, Adnan and Stefanie were friends and I could see him giving his car to Jay to go get a present....oh and bring me back some weed.

I think what is harder to explain in that theory is why Jay would continue to hang around the ex-bf of a girl he just murdered. It is only a few hours, but I would think that whoever did it had to be freaking out. Unless Jay really was smart enough to keep Adnan around in hopes of pinning it on him. I can't get around the fact that there are pieces that don't make sense unless Adnan did it.

[liziz]

I was totally convinced that Jay did it, or at least knows what happened, until I read this: firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/29/exclusive-interview-jay-wilds-star-witness-adnan-syed-serial-case-pt-1/

It is so frustrating to go through all of that and not know what really happened.