Early Thirsty Thursday: BF Check-in

[holliberry28]

Thanks mrsmonogrammed! I do need to reach out and do the weighted feeding. You said your little one was getting 3 all together?

[wormgerm]

Lefty is a milk fountain today. It hit me in the foot (over baby!) earlier and just soaked a burp cloth when he pulled off. Guess it got the memo that he's in a growth spurt. What a mess.

[mrsmonogrammed]

holliberry28 yes, Charlotte took in about 3oz at her weighted feeding. Both the LC and AmyG said that was a good amount:)

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2015 18:24:24 GMT -5 holliberry28 said:

sabrinaml and @ravinraven216, sorry you guys are struggling. I hope you get the help you need, whatever decision you make.

Had a pediatrician appointment. Told doctor he eats every hour from the breast and is constantly hungry but goes 3 hrs from pumped breast milk or formula. She said Im not making enough milk so I should supplement w formula after offering the breast for 10-15 min each feeding. It's so frustrating when I think I'll have enough for him off the breast, and then am told otherwise.

Yeah eating all the time doesn't mean a thing about your supply when they are really really young, and there is a growth spurt at about 1 week of age where they nurse constantly, and of course, when you just have colostrum, they nurse all the time.  A newborn has never felt hunger, they've never not been attached, and they want to stay always connected.  Giving a bottle will overfill them so they conk out and may sleep too long.  Also of course it depends on how much oz you give at a time as a newborn's stomach is really really small. 

Limiting time at the breast to only 10-15 minutes is often a recipe for disaster and really poor bfing advice.

Get help in person asap.

If you give more data I can give more specific advice to your situation.

more specifically, how old is baby, and how much are you pumping? and what's weight gain like?

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2015 19:41:05 GMT -5 mrsmonogrammed said:

holliberry28 yes, Charlotte took in about 3oz at her weighted feeding. Both the LC and AmyG said that was a good amount:)

Yes by about 3 weeks of age a full feeding is about 2.5-3 oz.

this amount stays stable until baby starts going longer between feeds, where they may go up to around 4 oz 6 times a day and milk for a baby thru about 6 months or so stays at around 25 oz a day.

before that time period, a full feeding is much less.

As a newborn a full feeding of colostrum is only 1 teaspoon! 

Their stomach is about the size of a marble, or one swallow of amniotic fluid.

it stretches out from there a little bit more every day, up to about the size of a shooter marble, then a golf ball and should stay around the size of their fist.

It's kind of like up to an ounce for a week old,

up to about 2 oz by 2 weeks, and up to about 3 oz by three weeks, with some variation in how fast the supply goes up to stretch out the size of their stomach.

[dogmama22]

I'm not sure exactly how to describe this, but I'm wondering if anyone else feels the same thing. During certain times, my body feels like it would if I have a fever - somewhat shaky and just an odd feeling. I've experienced this for several days on three occasions since he was born (they seem to somewhat coincide with growth spurts at a few days old, three weeks and now we're heading into six weeks). I know they told me a low-grade fever is normal when my milk came in, but I'm wondering if it's also normal as he ups my supply during these times. So now that my post is clear as mud, anyone else feel this way?

[wegrowsheep]

Jul 13, 2015 21:09:45 GMT -5 dogmama22 said:

I'm not sure exactly how to describe this, but I'm wondering if anyone else feels the same thing. During certain times, my body feels like it would if I have a fever - somewhat shaky and just an odd feeling. I've experienced this for several days on three occasions since he was born (they seem to somewhat coincide with growth spurts at a few days old, three weeks and now we're heading into six weeks). I know they told me a low-grade fever is normal when my milk came in, but I'm wondering if it's also normal as he ups my supply during these times. So now that my post is clear as mud, anyone else feel this way?

I had something siimilar with my last two, but it occurred closer to the 4 month mark. It was post-partum hyperthyroidism. My GP diagnosed it as Graves' disease and referred me to a specialist, who told me what it really was and not to worry about it because my numbers were already almost normal. It lasted about 3 months total.

[tulips114]

I'm having an issue. About a week ago I thought maybe I had thrush. Painful nursing and shooting pains after nursing. But it was only my left side. Baby or my right side had no signs of it. This was over a weekend so I was going to call my OB on Monday. Then all symptoms disappeared, so I didn't call.
Fast forward to this weekend and Sunday morning I've got an area of engorgement after nursing on the left side. A plugged duct I figure. So I do warm compress and massage and engorgement is much better after he nurses again, but then I've got a white spot on my nipple. I think it's a milk bleb, but it doesn't bulge if I try to hand express. No more engorgement, so milk is getting through. Baby is nursing fine, and I'm pretty sure latch is fine.
But the nipple hurts!! During nursing especially the first few minutes and it lingers for a bit after nursing. And the white spot is still there. What do I do?
I dealt with recurrent plugged ducts and blebs with DD1 but was always able to get them out. This seems different. I never had nipple pain with those, breast soreness from engorgement yes, but not nipple pain.
@amyg billyhorrible or anyone else who might know??

[wormgerm]

Can you hand express any sabrinaml? Have you been eating and drinking? Maybe take a hot shower and try feeding right after. I leak all over when I get out of the shower. I'm sorry you're having a horrible day.

[ladysif]

@amyg, can you please talk to me about high lipase? I had it with DS1 (I am 99% sure, I foolishly didn't have it tested though) and am primarily wondering if that means I am guaranteed to have it with this baby, too. So far it seems fine, but it didn't seem to happen right away with DS1, either, at least that I noticed. I would just rather not waste a ton of time scalding every batch I pump if I don't need to! Should I ask to have it tested at my 6 week postpartum visit?

[ravinraven216]

My trip to the LC was a rousing success. It was so much easier to learn what to do in person. I wasn't leaning back far enough and I need to express more milk before I latch baby on. I had been concerned about using up my supply, but even after expressing an ounce from each side DS ate 5oz. He only became detached once instead of a dozen times like normal. He's also sleeping the longest he ever has (3 hours). We even managed a cradle hold on the right side that felt good. There was no pain during or afterward and it was actually kind of relaxing.

I also ordered a My Breast Friend nursing pillow as DS is a huge baby (he weighs over 13lbs at 5 weeks) and the Boppy I have isn't supportive enough to keep him at an incline (to reduce reflux). DH offered to wake up at night with me to help me position myself correctly until I get it down better.

If I can recreate the magic I had at the LC, I'll be so much better off.

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2015 16:07:22 GMT -5 ladysif said:

@amyg, can you please talk to me about high lipase? I had it with DS1 (I am 99% sure, I foolishly didn't have it tested though) and am primarily wondering if that means I am guaranteed to have it with this baby, too. So far it seems fine, but it didn't seem to happen right away with DS1, either, at least that I noticed. I would just rather not waste a ton of time scalding every batch I pump if I don't need to! Should I ask to have it tested at my 6 week postpartum visit?

I know of no test for lipase that is done in office.

This is the test for high lipase.

Pump milk, put it in the fridge, test it with smell and taste every hour or two.

See if milk gets soapy, metallic, funky tasting along the way.

Also pump and freeze some milk and then thaw it slowly in the fridge and similarly taste and smell it and see if it gets funky tasting.

Lipase doesn't make the milk bad.

Lipase is an enzyme normally present in breastmilk.

It breaks down the fats in the milk so they are more bioavailable for baby to absorb.

So in that regard Lipase is a good thing and does no harm cause normally it's doing it's work within baby's stomach and you never notice.

However when we pump and store the milk the lipase keeps working, and for some it seems to work too fast, too much and makes the milk funky tasting or smelling.  Baby may take it fine, cause it's not BAD milk, it's just sort of predigested or broken down.  Some babies refuse to take a bottle of milk that has gotten funky tasting, some will take it if mixed partially with fresh milk, and soe take it no problems at all. 

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2015 16:10:45 GMT -5 ravinraven216 said:

My trip to the LC was a rousing success. It was so much easier to learn what to do in person. I wasn't leaning back far enough and I need to express more milk before I latch baby on. I had been concerned about using up my supply, but even after expressing an ounce from each side DS ate 5oz. He only became detached once instead of a dozen times like normal. He's also sleeping the longest he ever has (3 hours). We even managed a cradle hold on the right side that felt good. There was no pain during or afterward and it was actually kind of relaxing.

I also ordered a My Breast Friend nursing pillow as DS is a huge baby (he weighs over 13lbs at 5 weeks) and the Boppy I have isn't supportive enough to keep him at an incline (to reduce reflux). DH offered to wake up at night with me to help me position myself correctly until I get it down better.

If I can recreate the magic I had at the LC, I'll be so much better off.

In person help is amazing!

And if you can't quite get it perfect at home, call them back up and try again. We usually sit in a different chair in a different place at LC office and at home it may be hard to replicate, sometimes getting them to come to your house and show you in your home.

Just work to wean from expressing so much milk before feeding, aiming every few days to a week to stop before you get to the whole ounce as you should be able to back off on that amount so the oversupply goes down not up.

[tulips114]

Jul 14, 2015 16:07:22 GMT -5 ladysif said:

@amyg, can you please talk to me about high lipase? I had it with DS1 (I am 99% sure, I foolishly didn't have it tested though) and am primarily wondering if that means I am guaranteed to have it with this baby, too. So far it seems fine, but it didn't seem to happen right away with DS1, either, at least that I noticed. I would just rather not waste a ton of time scalding every batch I pump if I don't need to! Should I ask to have it tested at my 6 week postpartum visit?

I had high lipase with both girls (self diagnosed, not tested). They took the milk just fine without scalding it. I don't think it's a problem unless your baby refuses the milk. At least that's what kellymom says. I pray this little guy takes it if I have it again which I would assume I will (haven't reheated any refrigerated or frozen milk yet though).

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2015 13:44:34 GMT -5 sabrinaml said:

So little man and I have been doing skin to skin all day. But I don't know how much longer I can handle listening to him scream bloody murder because he is hungry. I can get him to latch, but nothing is coming out and he gets even more frustrated, which makes me frustrated. I think I've cried more today than the last 6 weeks combined. He's had 0 wet diapers since we've started this.

You probably can't go from supplementing at each feeding and not pumping much and limiting time at the breast to cold turkey just nursing.

So 0 diapers equals feed the baby! however you need to feed the baby.

 and then start again with a better plan with steps to it

increase nursing time at the breast, get baby nursing longer and more effectively,

pump after feeds and give supplement,

but slowly reduce amt of supplement every few days to wean baby down in amount of supplement

Can you get in person help with this or do I need to talk you thru some options for a plan to get things going in the right direction?

If so I need more data on exact weight issues and what you've done and tried, you might want a separate thread just for you.

 

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2015 8:09:57 GMT -5 tulips114 said:

I'm having an issue. About a week ago I thought maybe I had thrush. Painful nursing and shooting pains after nursing. But it was only my left side. Baby or my right side had no signs of it. This was over a weekend so I was going to call my OB on Monday. Then all symptoms disappeared, so I didn't call.
Fast forward to this weekend and Sunday morning I've got an area of engorgement after nursing on the left side. A plugged duct I figure. So I do warm compress and massage and engorgement is much better after he nurses again, but then I've got a white spot on my nipple. I think it's a milk bleb, but it doesn't bulge if I try to hand express. No more engorgement, so milk is getting through. Baby is nursing fine, and I'm pretty sure latch is fine.
But the nipple hurts!! During nursing especially the first few minutes and it lingers for a bit after nursing. And the white spot is still there. What do I do?
I dealt with recurrent plugged ducts and blebs with DD1 but was always able to get them out. This seems different. I never had nipple pain with those, breast soreness from engorgement yes, but not nipple pain.
@amyg billyhorrible or anyone else who might know??

It could be a plugged duct at the nipple, which means like a bleb that goes down deeper and needs to be drug out with tweezers or a sterilized needle. milk will still come out, just maybe not out of that nipple pore.

warm water soaks of the nipple, start there, kind of gently rub the tip of nipple and manually express and see if it will break loose and come out. Until it breaks loose completely there will be pain.

Thrush feels like broken glass going out your nipples when you nurse at first and then the pain lessens --this is cause the yeast eats the sugary breastmilk and pees alcohol, and once the alcohol is washed out of the nipple pores the worst of the pain goes away.  The nipples are usually extra pink, shiney, flakey, itchy. There can be pain in the ducts, if the yeast is moving inside, not just hanging out on the tip of the nipples.  But often pain inside is milk refill pains and let down pains which happen randomly.

You can try nursing with baby on their back and see if that will clear the clog and bleb. 

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2015 1:07:19 GMT -5 stcyct said:

Jul 13, 2015 16:31:41 GMT -5 @amyg said:

Check and recheck latch and for tongue tie, multiple people have them look, more than one IBCLCL.

Lots of those issues arise from a tongue tie issue or latch problem. 

Reynaulds/vasospasms tend to occur in conjunction with damage to the nipple from a poor latch or sometimes due to thrush.  It resolves usually when the latch is corrected and damage heals, which may take a bit longer than a week, sorry.  Get a pediatric dentist, and/or ENT to check for tongue tie, and lip tie I've never seen a chiropractor do that, they aren't trained to correct ties.

Be sure you are using a warmed rice sock in your bra immediately after nursing to help with pain from the cold.

How is supply? Are you spraying out milk fast and baby is clamping down to control the flow? 

Thanks so much Amy G. I have had multiple people check out his latch and check for tongue tie at this point and everyone says his latch is amazing and if he has tongue tie it is likely posterior and very mild. The LC and chiropractor seem to feel this way. The chiropractor is planning to refer me to a pediatric dentist who corrects tongue tie with a lazer if things don't improve for another evaluation. The hypertension meds are working. It no longer hurts to feed really at all other than a bit at the start and it hurts way less between feedings than it used to to. I can get out of the shower now without wanting to cry. It's still there but it's significantly better. I do have a lot of milk and am sometimes spraying like crazy so that could be part of the problem. There have been a couple times he's choked from getting too much. He also has gastrointestinal issues so she thinks this could be a factor in how fussy he can be at times while eating (pushing off And screaming though still seemingly hungry). I feel like things are improving but there is still work to do if that makes any sense.

GI issues, clamping down, lots of pain with let down, spraying like crazy, pushing off and screaming even though still hungry are all signs of overactive let down and oversupply, milk is spraying out too fast and baby is gulping, taking in air, getting a lot of foremilk, so green poopies and lots of gas and spit up, clamping down when nursing to slow the flow so they don't drown.

Feed with baby's head higher than the breast, football hold with baby sitting more upright, laid back nursing, or the "natural nursing position" which is flat of your back with baby on top.  also side lying with baby's head in line with the breast helps to keep gravity from speeding the flow.  Express or pump milk at the beginning of the feed and see if it sprays out hard and fast at let down, if so wait til it slows and then latch on.  If you hear gulping or baby comes off cause of spray and screams, then hand express just a bit til the spray slows and then relatch, and burp way way more often.

 

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2015 21:09:45 GMT -5 dogmama22 said:

I'm not sure exactly how to describe this, but I'm wondering if anyone else feels the same thing. During certain times, my body feels like it would if I have a fever - somewhat shaky and just an odd feeling. I've experienced this for several days on three occasions since he was born (they seem to somewhat coincide with growth spurts at a few days old, three weeks and now we're heading into six weeks). I know they told me a low-grade fever is normal when my milk came in, but I'm wondering if it's also normal as he ups my supply during these times. So now that my post is clear as mud, anyone else feel this way?

It could be as simple as a bit of low blood sugar making you feel faint and flushed if you aren't eating enough calories or drinking enough water and are slightly dehydrated. check both of those things first.

there is also a huge hormone rush that occurs with let down which might make you feel wonky at times.

[dogmama22]

Jul 14, 2015 17:00:55 GMT -5 @amyg said:

Jul 13, 2015 21:09:45 GMT -5 dogmama22 said:

I'm not sure exactly how to describe this, but I'm wondering if anyone else feels the same thing. During certain times, my body feels like it would if I have a fever - somewhat shaky and just an odd feeling. I've experienced this for several days on three occasions since he was born (they seem to somewhat coincide with growth spurts at a few days old, three weeks and now we're heading into six weeks). I know they told me a low-grade fever is normal when my milk came in, but I'm wondering if it's also normal as he ups my supply during these times. So now that my post is clear as mud, anyone else feel this way?

It could be as simple as a bit of low blood sugar making you feel faint and flushed if you aren't eating enough calories or drinking enough water and are slightly dehydrated. check both of those things first.

there is also a huge hormone rush that occurs with let down which might make you feel wonky at times.

Thank you. That makes sense. I had a low temperature the last two times, but hadn't developed one this time (high 99 to low 100s). Now my temperature is slightly elevated again. It seems like the feeling starts a day or two before the actual temp. Would that also be normal?

[wormgerm]

Does let down ease up? I just watched my kid get shot in the eye twice after it sprayed all over his face and then that same jet kept going for a good 30 more seconds. It seems like it's getting worse instead of leveling out.


Edit: I had oatmeal for breakfast, does that have anything to do with it? The crazy let down happened in the evening.

[ladysif]

Jul 14, 2015 16:39:07 GMT -5 tulips114 said:

Jul 14, 2015 16:07:22 GMT -5 ladysif said:

I had high lipase with both girls (self diagnosed, not tested). They took the milk just fine without scalding it. I don't think it's a problem unless your baby refuses the milk. At least that's what kellymom says. I pray this little guy takes it if I have it again which I would assume I will (haven't reheated any refrigerated or frozen milk yet though).

Thanks @amyg and tulips114. I'll start tasting. DS1 wouldn't ever take a bottle of it, even mixed with fresh, and I can't say I blame the kid as it tasted off. Maybe DS2 won't care if I do have high lipase issues again. I thought there was a test for it but I could easily be wrong. I'll ask when I go in just out of curiosity to see if they would/could do anything. 

I'm trying to be smarter this time about taking care of myself and it would be nice to eventually be able to leave DS2 with a bottle if I want to go to a movie with DH or something. It was a massive commitment to be ALWAYS available to DS1 to nurse him when he needed to eat every. single. time. because he wouldn't ever take a bottle of it. I had to be with him and the most time I had to myself was 2-3 hours max before I had to be home to nurse him. I should have tried harder with him and scalded the milk, but I was just a martyr (and idiot) about it and I can't be that way this time. 

Thanks again ladies! 

[tulips114]

ladysif good luck! I hope he takes it.

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2015 23:32:13 GMT -5 @freckleface said:

@amyg any suggestions for preventing mastitis with an oversupply? I have it for the second time in two weeks- super red spot on my breast, really painful, 102 fever, chills, aches...basically feel like I've gotten hit by a truck. I also had a clogged duct a week ago. It was really strange because I woke up with just my right breast feeling hard as a rock- just as bad as when my milk came in. He didn't even sleep for very long stretches! I nursed him on that side first and then pumped. I just can't handle this happening frequently!

second time in two weeks is likely that you didn't get the right antibiotics the first time, and so it has rebounded. So ask about a stronger/different antibiotic. nruse nurse nurse, try varying positions, to clear any clogs that are contributing to the infection not clearing.

once the mastitis clears Getting oversupply under control is important. , feed on one side per feeding, temporarily eat extra peppermint (short term lowers milk supply as you get things adjusted), no pumping until supply regulates, etc.

Lecithin can help if clogged ducts are at work, it makes your milk a bit more "slippery" so it doesn't clog up in the ducts as easily.

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2015 22:28:24 GMT -5 ladysif said:

Jul 14, 2015 16:39:07 GMT -5 tulips114 said:

I had high lipase with both girls (self diagnosed, not tested). They took the milk just fine without scalding it. I don't think it's a problem unless your baby refuses the milk. At least that's what kellymom says. I pray this little guy takes it if I have it again which I would assume I will (haven't reheated any refrigerated or frozen milk yet though).

Thanks @amyg and tulips114. I'll start tasting. DS1 wouldn't ever take a bottle of it, even mixed with fresh, and I can't say I blame the kid as it tasted off. Maybe DS2 won't care if I do have high lipase issues again. I thought there was a test for it but I could easily be wrong. I'll ask when I go in just out of curiosity to see if they would/could do anything. 

I'm trying to be smarter this time about taking care of myself and it would be nice to eventually be able to leave DS2 with a bottle if I want to go to a movie with DH or something. It was a massive commitment to be ALWAYS available to DS1 to nurse him when he needed to eat every. single. time. because he wouldn't ever take a bottle of it. I had to be with him and the most time I had to myself was 2-3 hours max before I had to be home to nurse him. I should have tried harder with him and scalded the milk, but I was just a martyr (and idiot) about it and I can't be that way this time. 

Thanks again ladies! 

Sometimes it just seems easier to go back home to baby than to juggle the pumping AND the scalding with high lipase.  It's ok, don't beat yourself up over the choices you made the last time, you can't undo it, you can only learn from it.  But if I wasn't a working mom I would never pump and scald either at least not very often.

you can always work to pump before going out, and leave FRESH milk for baby instead of pumped/frozen/scalded milk.

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2015 20:59:31 GMT -5 wormgerm said:

Does let down ease up? I just watched my kid get shot in the eye twice after it sprayed all over his face and then that same jet kept going for a good 30 more seconds. It seems like it's getting worse instead of leveling out.


Edit: I had oatmeal for breakfast, does that have anything to do with it? The crazy let down happened in the evening.

As supply regulates to more closely match baby's needs, let down eases up as supply regulates.

Of course oatmeal works to raise supply.....

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2015 18:53:54 GMT -5 dogmama22 said:

Jul 14, 2015 17:00:55 GMT -5 @amyg said:

It could be as simple as a bit of low blood sugar making you feel faint and flushed if you aren't eating enough calories or drinking enough water and are slightly dehydrated. check both of those things first.

there is also a huge hormone rush that occurs with let down which might make you feel wonky at times.

Thank you. That makes sense. I had a low temperature the last two times, but hadn't developed one this time (high 99 to low 100s). Now my temperature is slightly elevated again. It seems like the feeling starts a day or two before the actual temp. Would that also be normal?

I would talk to your dr about the temperature though.

Now it could be hormone fluctuations, sort of like going thru menopause women get hot flashes and temporary raised body temperature,

but it could also be a that you are having a low grade temperature for some other medical reason and it should be checked by your dr.