Should we talk about Cecil?

[joy]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3178135/Protesters-fasten-threats-door-hiding-dentist-paid-55-000-kill-Africa-s-famous-lion-PETA-calls-extradited-charged-preferably-hanged.html

EDIT: Summary because I hate reading articles that other people pin.

Minnesota dental surgeon paid $50,000 for an African guide to go big game hunting.  He got all the proper permits.  Him and his guide lured a lion out of their protected sanctuary where Minnesota dental surgeon shot him with a bow and arrow.  The animal was wounded but not dead so they tracked him for two more days.  Finally, they shot the lion with a gun, took pictures, removed the head, and left the body.

Turns out, dead lion is a well-known and beloved lion in the sanctuary called Cecil.  Cecil was outcast from another pride and became a loner.  He hooked up with another male loner named Jericho.  Cecil went on to head a pride of his own and has several cubs.  Now that Cecil is dead, his cubs are in danger of being killed by Jericho as he takes over Cecil's pride.  This is all secondary to the fact that Cecil was really really well liked, much photographed, and a big draw for tourists.

Minnesota dental surgeon is now in hiding in Zimbabwe.  He has gone on record saying that he's sorry he killed Cecil, but he had the permits and didn't know Cecil was well known.  The head of Cecil has been confiscated by Zimbabwe authorities.

Cecil was fitted with a collar so that his movements could be watched by scientists.  That collar was only partially destroyed after his death.

[pinkcat]

This whole thing makes me so, so sad. I cannot fathom hunting a creature as majestic as a lion for sport- it epitomizes human arrogance, I think.

However, I do wish that people would be horrified by this ALL the time, whenever an elephant or lion or any other creature is illegaly hunted. Right now it's the Facebook "Cause du jour" for people to talk about and be upset about, without having to do anything except share the story on their page. Facebook (or social media in general) is really great in that we can quickly spread stories like this around the world so that something can be done and change can happen. But it can also make for plenty of people who just sit behind their computer screens and post how upset they are, without doing much about it. I think it's a double edged sword. Overall, though, I do hope it's creating more awareness for this cause, and so many others.

[singingsea]

Dude fuck people who kill endangered animals. He shouldn't be getting death threats though. We seriously need to do much much more to protect endangered species.

[wannabmama]

pinkcat well said!

[shemarie82]

Killing for sport is disgusting, whether the animal is "loved" or not. Fuck people!

[joy]

Jul 29, 2015 7:44:24 GMT -5 pinkcat said:

This whole thing makes me so, so sad. I cannot fathom hunting a creature as majestic as a lion for sport- it epitomizes human arrogance, I think.

However, I do wish that people would be horrified by this ALL the time, whenever an elephant or lion or any other creature is illegaly hunted. Right now it's the Facebook "Cause du jour" for people to talk about and be upset about, without having to do anything except share the story on their page. Facebook (or social media in general) is really great in that we can quickly spread stories like this around the world so that something can be done and change can happen. But it can also make for plenty of people who just sit behind their computer screens and post how upset they are, without doing much about it. I think it's a double edged sword. Overall, though, I do hope it's creating more awareness for this cause, and so many others.

This is a very fair statement.  People can be very taken with a movement one minute and forget all about it the next.  It's true for every fad that sweeps through Facebook or the news.  We're all so streaky.  You can only hope that this one story will lead to a bigger group of people who stick around once the fad has calmed down to help out.

The part that absolutely sickens me about this, though, is that they lured the lion off his sanctuary.  I know this isn't unheard of, but if you have to lure it somewhere to legally kill it then wtf are you doing?  I also don't believe for a second that the guide didn't know that the lion was Cecil.  Big game hunter didn't recognize or know the possibility of that being such a well-known lion?  C'mon.

[pinkcat]

Totally agree joy. I don't understand how it's in anyway legal to lure an animal off of a "sanctuary" and then somehow it is "legal" to kill it, whereas if it stayed on the sanctuary it's illegal. That logic makes no sense, the point of a sanctuary is to keep the animals safe from hunters and other dangers. I mean, I don't understand how it's legal to kill them for sport ANYWHERE, though....

And I agree-movements like these spread through social media so quickly, and by next week sadly many people will have forgotten all about this story. But I still think it's helping the world today- even if .001% of people who see this story on Facebook feel moved enough to act and to try and stop this from happening again, that is many many more people who would have heard about the story or been able to do anything even 20 years ago. At least that is what I hope when movements like these happen!

[mrsjene]

I'm sickened and saddened by this. It's completely disgusting and arrogant.

However, I wish people would take the effort they are putting into death threats and put it towards figuring out how to protect endangered species.

[ironbaby]

I am with starbuck27. Trophy hunting is disgusting, and it should not be considered a sport.

I read some followups yesterday.
- They baited Cecil with another dead animal to get him off the sanctuary grounds.
- The "professional hunter" who helped Palmer and secured the permits did not actually have a license to kill a lion. They have a quota, and a lion was not in his quota.
- Palmer has been in trouble before for bending the rules on trophy hunting by killing a bear outside the allowed zone.

And honestly, if you are going to hunt, could you at least try to be humane about it? That lion wondered around for 40 hours, wounded, by a "hunter" who couldn't get a good clean kill shot on a tame, baited lion. What a bastard.

[goldenlove3]

I'm trying to put into words how I feel but I can't think of anything except how sad I am for this poor lion. I agree with everyone that this type of thing should not be legal. They lured him out of his sanctuary only to shoot him and let him suffer for 2 days? That disgusts me.

[beckynsean11]

Sport hunting disgusts me. I'm 100% OK with hunting for food, knock your socks off. I can respect the use of bow & arrow even. But when you do that, you're supposed to hunt them down & kill them, not let them wander for days with an injury. The fact that he had to lure him off the reserve so he could legally hunt him is vile. Humans suck.

[joy]

Jul 29, 2015 8:11:31 GMT -5 @mrsjohnmarston said:

I'm not against hunting but I think you should be respectful of the animal who's life you're taking. Precautions should be taken to ensure that the animal doesn't suffer. Wandering around for 2 days in pain is ridiculous. The body of the animal should be used as much as possible. Meat eaten, hide used, etc... Obviously not killing endangered species.

The guy definitely should face some heavy charges. Death threats are too far though.

Yup.  I agree with all of this.

They just took his head and left his body.  Disgraceful.

[ellabee]

This makes me so so sad. There was another story like this a few years ago about a famous alpha female wolf who was killed in Yellowstone National Park. I also find it disgusting that the hunters try to appear remorseful. You're not sorry you killed the animal - you're sorry you got caught. If you didn't want to kill the animal, you wouldn't have been out there in the first place.

As a side note, the dentist's business has been flooded with negative reviews on yelp. Hopefully the failure of his business will be an expensive lesson for him. (Though I feel bad for his staff, who are likely to be out of jobs soon.)

[mrsjene]

I can agree with hunting if it is a swift kill and you plan to use the whole animal (I watched a segment on Real Sports, I think, about people who do this).

However, how arrogant are you to take down an animal from a safe distance with a deadly weapon just for sport? How well would you match up against that animal if you had no weapon? Not even fair enough to be called a sport.

(Being fair is besides the point though)

[hoopoe]

Personally, I feel big game trophy hunting is morally repugnant, and I would like to see it end.

HOWEVER, I used to work in conservation and this is a very complex issue. Hunting is widely accepted in the conservation world as a necessary evil (well, not all conservationists will consider it evil). Hunting encourages land preservation -hunters and land managers will buy up large plots of land meant to support these big game animals and plenty of other smaller, less charismatic species benefit from the land acquisition. Money is raised and spent in places that would likely never see a dollar if hunters weren't involved.

I mostly feel sad and frustrated that this kind of hunting is deemed necessary - otherwise the money just isn't there to buy land and support conservation efforts. Getting governments to spend the kind of money needed just isn't going to happen, because there is no pay-off.

Sad on so many levels.

Here's some reading about hunting and conservation if you are interested: Conservation Magazine, Nat Geo

[steveo]

pinkcat so true. KONY, anyone?

Also, trophy hunting happens all over the place, and offends me pretty much regardless of whether the animal happened to be famous. But there is something I find extra offensive about a wealthy Westerner doing it after throwing his money around in a developing country like Zimbabwe.

[mikaela20]

I hate all types of sport hunting but this type of hunting is harming the habit not helping it in any way. It's sickening and shows how ignorant the government that issued those permits is to allow this and shows the ignorance of those involved in doing it. It's so very sad and really made my heart heavy when learning of this .

[joy]

What I actually don't understand is why they left the collar.

So, the guide is in court saying what they did was legal and they had no idea that the lion was collared until after it was dead. I have no idea if that's true - does that mane hide it? So, he alleges that when they realized the lion was collared after death, they reported the killing immediately.

But the collar was partially destroyed and found near the body. Why? Why did they leave it? If they were trying to hide what they did, why not just take it? If they were truly upset by what they did, why didn't they take it and turn it over to authorities? And wtf did they cut off the head once they realized the lion was collared?

This seems like a series of poor decisions after poor decisions.

Side note: how does one leave one country and enter another with a decaying lion head?

[mrsjene]

Jul 29, 2015 8:57:35 GMT -5 joy said:

What I actually don't understand is why they left the collar.

So, the guide is in court saying what they did was legal and they had no idea that the lion was collared until after it was dead. I have no idea if that's true - does that mane hide it? So, he alleges that when they realized the lion was collared after death, they reported the killing immediately.

But the collar was partially destroyed and found near the body. Why? Why did they leave it? If they were trying to hide what they did, why not just take it? If they were truly upset by what they did, why didn't they take it and turn it over to authorities? And wtf did they cut off the head once they realized the lion was collared?

This seems like a series of poor decisions after poor decisions.

Side note: how does one leave one country and enter another with a decaying lion head?

THIS X10000000000000

[sleepymonkey]

This whole thing is disgusting. And I do not believe his apology one bit that he had no idea that the lion was from a sanctuary. Did he think all wild elephants in Africa walk around wearing collars? I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can take any pleasure in killing an animal. How is that fun? I can overlook the fact that people hunt for food and as a means of population control for abundant animals. But trophy hunting is just sick!

[bibliothecary]

I do not understand sport hunting. You pay a fuckton of money to basically have someone else parade some impressive animal in front of you so you can kill it and feel like a big man. Yeah, great job at shooting the thing that you didn't track and have no intention of eating or using. Brava, dipshit. Is there no other way you can get an erection?

I also love how they imply that killing Cecil was a mistake only because they didn't understand that he was a popular lion. Yeah, that's why it's wrong to lure an animal off its protected land, injure it, allow it to suffer for 40 hours, then kill it, behead and skin it, and run away like a coward.

[frankenboom]

Jul 29, 2015 8:57:35 GMT -5 joy said:

What I actually don't understand is why they left the collar.

So, the guide is in court saying what they did was legal and they had no idea that the lion was collared until after it was dead. I have no idea if that's true - does that mane hide it? So, he alleges that when they realized the lion was collared after death, they reported the killing immediately.

But the collar was partially destroyed and found near the body. Why? Why did they leave it? If they were trying to hide what they did, why not just take it? If they were truly upset by what they did, why didn't they take it and turn it over to authorities? And wtf did they cut off the head once they realized the lion was collared?

This seems like a series of poor decisions after poor decisions.

Side note: how does one leave one country and enter another with a decaying lion head?

I'm really trying to figure out how luring an animal off of a sanctuary is legal...that's what doesn't make sense to me.

There is a big difference between hunting for sport and hunting for food/survival. Hunting for sport is unacceptable, IMO.

[joy]

Jul 29, 2015 9:10:17 GMT -5 bibliothecary said:

I do not understand sport hunting. You pay a fuckton of money to basically have someone else parade some impressive animal in front of you so you can kill it and feel like a big man. Yeah, great job at shooting the thing that you didn't track and have no intention of eating or using. Brava, dipshit. Is there no other way you can get an erection?

I also love how they imply that killing Cecil was a mistake only because they didn't understand that he was a popular lion. Yeah, that's why it's wrong to lure an animal off its protected land, injure it, allow it to suffer for 40 hours, then kill it, behead and skin it, and run away like a coward.

I agreed with this so much that I hit the like button twice.

[frankenboom]

Jul 29, 2015 9:20:05 GMT -5 W said:

This whole thing makes me sick.

Sidenote: his dentistry reviews went from 4.3 stars on Google to 1.1.

The power of social media.

Seriously, looking through all of the photos in the linked article, I legitimately cannot understand killing an animal for a cause other than eating it or other survival (thinking wearing its pelt, etc. in the olden days).

[Ruca]

This story breaks my heart

[notagoddess]

Jul 29, 2015 9:10:17 GMT -5 bibliothecary said:

I do not understand sport hunting. You pay a fuckton of money to basically have someone else parade some impressive animal in front of you so you can kill it and feel like a big man. Yeah, great job at shooting the thing that you didn't track and have no intention of eating or using. Brava, dipshit. Is there no other way you can get an erection?

I also love how they imply that killing Cecil was a mistake only because they didn't understand that he was a popular lion. Yeah, that's why it's wrong to lure an animal off its protected land, injure it, allow it to suffer for 40 hours, then kill it, behead and skin it, and run away like a coward.

This perfectly sums up how I feel on a personal level.

On a policy level, hoopoe, I've also heard that trophy hunting is a net gain for conservation. Weird and gross, but as you said, it brings in the big bucks unlike NGO efforts.

[texteachmom]

The story sickens me. Disgusting. I'm okay with hunting for food. Hunting for fun is disgusting.

The worst part...due to this asshole, the Lion's cubs will likely be killed by the next lion in charge so that he can impregnate the lioness' and have his bloodline take over the pride. There's around 20 cubs! All this killing for what?

[mosdub]

I agree entirely with everyone.

New thought generated by this thread:
Where do you all stand with catch and release with fishing? I never thought it was bad but you often do damage the fish when you hook it - sometimes bad. Does it depend on the type of fish? Whether or not it is endangered?

[bibliothecary]

Jul 29, 2015 9:31:31 GMT -5 texteachmom said:

The story sickens me. Disgusting. I'm okay with hunting for food. Hunting for fun is disgusting.

The worst part...due to this asshole, the Lion's cubs will likely be killed by the next lion in charge so that he can impregnate the lioness' and have his bloodline take over the pride. There's around 20 cubs! All this killing for what?

24, at last count. They'll be killed be Cecil's successor.

[bibliothecary]

Apparently, Jimmy Kimmel and I agree on some things. Who knew?