GTKY: How will you parent your child/ren? (Article Link)

[aprilz81]

I found this article link this morning and found it interesting.  I thought it might be a good distraction/discussion for a Friday.

How Schools Are Handling An 'Overparenting' Crisis


This is very much a first world problem, but I hear so many stories about how the Millennials (more the younger millennial) have little/no coping skills when something goes wrong.  They bring their parents to interviews and have an adult negotiate job offers, they still live at home and expect their first job to be in a corner office making $100k a year.

I'm a Millennial (barely, I'm on the upper edge being born in 1981) and I was raised that you do your best but sometimes that isn't good enough to win.  I plan on doing the same with any kids we are fortunate to have.  I'm sure it will be a difficult balancing act between helping them learn/grow/succeed and over-parenting.

Have you thought about this?  What are your plans?

[requiressnacks]

This will be me:



I kid, I kid. Honestly, I'm not sure. I like to think I'll instill basic skills in my children so that they can grow up to be happy, productive members of society. I do think that children should grow up with a sense of responsibilities and not have everything handed to them.

[joy]

1981 isn't a millenial... I use that word for kids born in the 90s.

My hope is that I'll parent the way my parents did in that they supported me, cheered me on, were there for me when I asked for it, but didn't hover and would let me make my own mistakes. My parents never once did a project for me, let me take off from school because I hadn't prepared for an exam and were very tough love when I learned to reap what I sow. They stressed the importance of a strong education so school was serious business, but it taught me a very strong work ethic and to take responsibility for my actions at a very young age.

My parents were also able to be unbiased when it came to altercations with both the school and my friends. When I got a jaywalking ticket in front of my high school, they let me fight the administration on its ridiculousness and fully were on my side. But, when I thought the school was way too harsh on me for breaking the rules, they were all Team School. I appreciated that they were balanced and didn't give in to me always being right. Sometimes I wasn't - that's life - they were my parents and they parented me.

Honestly, if I do half as good a job as my parents did, I'll call it a win.

[aprilz81]

joy The "experts" whoever in the hell they are, define Millennials as those born after 1980/1981 (the exact line is a little blurred). I personally have the traits of a Gen Xer.

[mrsjene]

Aug 28, 2015 10:26:41 GMT -5 joy said:

1981 isn't a millenial... I use that word for kids born in the 90s.

I think she's referring to the fact that millenials are defined as anyone born from 1980 to the mid-2000s.

[requiressnacks]

Aug 28, 2015 10:34:00 GMT -5 aprilz81 said:

joy The "experts" whoever in the hell they are, define Millennials as those born after 1980/1981 (the exact line is a little blurred). I personally have the traits of a Gen Xer.

I'm 1981 too and I always LOL when I see that we're considered millennials. I definitely do not portray many traits of a typical millennial.

[easilyunamused]

I'll certainly be more strict on my hypothetical children then my mom was. My mom was a good parent, I just had toouch freedom when I was a teenager.

I'm more in the camp of wait and see my kids personality. I think nature has somewhat more do with your child's development then nurture. So really, as I won't be a helicopter parent or anything like that, I'm not too sure what my style will be. They will have independence and know how to function as adult when the time comes.

[aprilz81]

I wonder if the helicopter parents KNOW that they are affecting their child's ability to function.

[pismoduo]

I really dislike the fact that I'm part of the generation that's been labelled with the stereotype associated with Millenials.

My parents were a lot like Joy's. Cheered me on, supported me, helped me if I asked, but busted my ass when I deserved it. They trusted me to make the right choices, because they had taken the time to teach me how to make good choices. They told me all their wild stories and the consequences of those wild stories (for instance, my father had Hep C from getting a tattoo at a cheap, shitty tattoo parlor).

What's interesting to me about my parents is that they raised my younger siblings TOTALLY DIFFERENT. My sister (the middle child) was babied and coddled and spoiled rotten. My brother... I feel like my parents were just tired of parenting by the time he came along. It wasn't that he was allowed to run wild or anything (he's like me, there's not a lot of wildness in that kid) it was more that they didn't push him to do better.

I'd like to think my parenting style will be a lot like my parent's (for me, anyway). But I'd like to add a little more consistency than my sibs and I had.

[joy]

Yeah, I don't care what the experts say. Early 80s kids are not millenials.

[pismoduo]

Aug 28, 2015 10:47:10 GMT -5 aprilz81 said:

I wonder if the helicopter parents KNOW that they are affecting their child's ability to function.

H's aunt and uncle are definitely helicopter parents. STILL. Their son is the same age as H (30) but they still take care of a lot of stuff for him. His mom does his taxes, they still pay for his car and his phone and his insurance. When his laptop broke a month or so ago, they bought him a brand new one the next day. His car needed some maintenance and repairs - they scheduled everything for him, made all the phone calls, etc.

He just got his first job (aside from the graduate teaching he was doing while getting his PhD). He posted on Facebook while he was job hunting that he was getting the most ridiculous interview questions, including "Why do you want to work for us?".

I think his mother is still oblivious to the fact that their hovering has hampered him, but I think his dad is starting to see it. I think he looks at H and I and sees two people at the same stage of life that have their shit a whole lot more together.

[adorebel]

First of all, I'm pissed that the generation breakdown went straight from X to Millenial. Those of us born in the 80s fit neither generation very well, partly because we came of age around 9/11, were first hit by the recession as young jobseekers, and initiated/participated in many of the protests/movements of this century. In the same way that boomers came of age at the cultural revolution of the 60s, the 9/11 moment seems like a really important cultural marker and tipping point, but WHATEVER. I hate you, experts.

ANYWAY.

I sometimes feel out of joint with either my own generation or my own understanding of what I'll be like as a parent. I see so many of my friends becoming parents and either doing things I say I would NEVER do with my kids or doing things THEY said they'd never do, but once they become parents, it all goes out the window. This often comes with a dose of "trust me, when you have kids, you'll [fill-in-the-blank] too."

Sometimes I think, "Wow, I really do have no idea what I'll do or feel as a mom. Maybe I will [fill-in-the-blank] too." Other times I think, no, there is no way in hell that my values and the way I was raised will allow me to coddle my child in the way you have normalized for yourself and your family.

Especially as a teacher, I am really wary of the article's mention of parents defending their kids against other adults /the world/ assuming their kids are always right - if a teacher has a concern about your kid, s/he is probably coming from a place of care and improvement, not maliciousness (not always, of course).

[adorebel]

I guess my FFFC is that I'm skeptical of attachment parenting because I feel like it fosters some of these behaviors. I'm not judging if you chose it for your family, and I'm open to hear from people who've tried it and can prove me wrong and have ended up with really self-sufficient kids, but I'm wary of adopting it myself because while I want to love and snuggle the shit out of my kids, I also want to foster their independence from the very start.

[ohinvrtedworld]

I like to think I'll be an "old-fashioned" parent whose kids know they are deeply loved but that they need to own their own lives. I know it's easy for me to look at others with their kids and stick my nose up and say I'll never do ______ parenting thing, and then see how hard it really is!

I am squarely in the "millenial" category and don't think a lot of it applies to me, but I hope I'm not just being blind to my own faults. My parents are teachers so I think they understood better than anyone that my grades and bad behavior, 99.999% of the time, were my fault and my fault alone. And now I get that, too.

We live closer to my in-laws than my parents, and I've told her a million times that when/if we have kids, I hope and pray that she can speak sense into me if I turn into a coddler (because I trust her to do it in a kind way, we have a special relationship that I'm lucky to have ).

[joy]

Aug 28, 2015 10:56:58 GMT -5 pismoduo said:

 Their son is the same age as H (30) but they still take care of a lot of stuff for him. His mom does his taxes, they still pay for his car and his phone and his insurance.

I had a credit card in college.  It was paid for by my parents but only to be used for emergencies.  I think I spent two hundred dollars on it during a semester.  My older sister also had this set up at that age. 

After my sister got her first job out of college, moved out, and was totally on her own, my father wrapped up her credit card bill and mailed it to her.  She called me later that day laughing and said "Dad has decided he's had enough of me!"  We got such a kick out of it.  We didn't say how mean or wrong it was; we both realized that our parents were very giving and it was time to be adults.  I knew my time would come when I reached the same point.  I actually called him once I had moved out and asked for him to forward the bill to me.

"With pleasure, Joy." was his response.

EDIT: I fully understand that my sister and I were very fortunate to be supported in all ways by our parents while growing up.  A credit card paid for by them in college was very generous. 

[pismoduo]

Aug 28, 2015 11:09:03 GMT -5 joy said:

Aug 28, 2015 10:56:58 GMT -5 pismoduo said:

 Their son is the same age as H (30) but they still take care of a lot of stuff for him. His mom does his taxes, they still pay for his car and his phone and his insurance.

I had a credit card in college.  It was paid for by my parents but only to be used for emergencies.  I think I spent two hundred dollars on it during a semester.  My older sister also had this set up at that age. 

After my sister got her first job out of college, moved out, and was totally on her own, my father wrapped up her credit card bill and mailed it to her.  She called me later that day laughing and said "Dad has decided he's had enough of me!"  We got such a kick out of it.  We didn't say how mean or wrong it was; we both realized that our parents were very giving and it was time to be adults.  I knew my time would come when I reached the same point.  I actually called him once I had moved out and asked for him to forward the bill to me.

"With pleasure, Joy." was his response.

I love this. Such a good story.

FIL was very much the same way with H. He'd send him a little something each month to help out during college, and covered his cell phone and car insurance until he got his Bachelor's. But then, he pushed him "out of the nest" so to speak, and while he's since helped us out occasionally with some bigger purchases (he's floated us a few loans, and we got an "early inheritance" when he sold his house), it's pretty clear that H is an adult and needs to handle his own shit.

It's nice to know he's there if we need him (same with my parents).

His cousin, though... they do everything for him. Scheduling appointments, handling any billing disputes, buying him furniture and books and electronics, making sure his car gets the maintenance done. They footed the entire bill for his Bachelor's and Master's degrees and a solid chunk of his PhD. Plus they were subsidizing his living expenses because he refused to live on the amount of money he was making as a graduate teaching assistant (not that it was much, but it's even harder to live off when you insist on shopping at Whole Foods and going out to eat 4 or 5 times a week).

He is very much the stereotype of the Millenial - expecting a great job right out the gate, getting mad when the benefits aren't exactly what he wanted, etc.

[joy]

Aug 28, 2015 11:18:01 GMT -5 pismoduo said:

His cousin, though... they do everything for him. Scheduling appointments, handling any billing disputes, buying him furniture and books and electronics, making sure his car gets the maintenance done. They footed the entire bill for his Bachelor's and Master's degrees and a solid chunk of his PhD. Plus they were subsidizing his living expenses because he refused to live on the amount of money he was making as a graduate teaching assistant (not that it was much, but it's even harder to live off when you insist on shopping at Whole Foods and going out to eat 4 or 5 times a week).

He is very much the stereotype of the Millenial - expecting a great job right out the gate, getting mad when the benefits aren't exactly what he wanted, etc.

Oh, no no no no.

I was poor after college.  I was poor for a very long time.  That meant that all those cushy luxuries that I had when my parents supported me went away.  I earned them back as my paycheck increased.  My parents helped in that they gave me good birthday and Christmas presents, but that's it. 

Seriously.  I think my parents were amazing, wonderful, awesome parents.  I should tell them so more often.

[mcktymck]

Dh and I are (for the most part) in the same boat when it comes to how we will raise our children. I strongly believe in working for what you want, not being handed everything. I had to buy my first car, so will our kids. I know so many people who were given cars as presents, and I just don't see the value in that. You appreciate things so much more when you have worked hard to get it. 

There will be no cell phones until at least freshman year of high school, or maybe not until they get a car. It drives me nuts seeing kids under 10 with cell phones. What's the point? What good could come from that?

As far as discipline, DH is in the "I'll spank my kid if they get out of line" camp, but I am very much against it and told him he'll have to deal with "mama bear" if he ever tries it. I plan on making it very clear what the consequences will be if they do the opposite of what is expected, and having the consequences be anything from having their favorite toy taken away from them for a certain amount of time, tv/computer/video game privileges, cancelling plans, time out, etc. Also, I have probably the best "look of death" in the entire world, so I'm hoping just that look will be enough to get them to knock it off 

[adorebel]

Aug 28, 2015 11:18:01 GMT -5 pismoduo said:

Aug 28, 2015 11:09:03 GMT -5 joy said:

I had a credit card in college.  It was paid for by my parents but only to be used for emergencies.  I think I spent two hundred dollars on it during a semester.  My older sister also had this set up at that age. 

After my sister got her first job out of college, moved out, and was totally on her own, my father wrapped up her credit card bill and mailed it to her.  She called me later that day laughing and said "Dad has decided he's had enough of me!"  We got such a kick out of it.  We didn't say how mean or wrong it was; we both realized that our parents were very giving and it was time to be adults.  I knew my time would come when I reached the same point.  I actually called him once I had moved out and asked for him to forward the bill to me.

"With pleasure, Joy." was his response.

I love this. Such a good story.

FIL was very much the same way with H. He'd send him a little something each month to help out during college, and covered his cell phone and car insurance until he got his Bachelor's. But then, he pushed him "out of the nest" so to speak, and while he's since helped us out occasionally with some bigger purchases (he's floated us a few loans, and we got an "early inheritance" when he sold his house), it's pretty clear that H is an adult and needs to handle his own shit.

It's nice to know he's there if we need him (same with my parents).

His cousin, though... they do everything for him. Scheduling appointments, handling any billing disputes, buying him furniture and books and electronics, making sure his car gets the maintenance done. They footed the entire bill for his Bachelor's and Master's degrees and a solid chunk of his PhD. Plus they were subsidizing his living expenses because he refused to live on the amount of money he was making as a graduate teaching assistant (not that it was much, but it's even harder to live off when you insist on shopping at Whole Foods and going out to eat 4 or 5 times a week).

He is very much the stereotype of the Millenial - expecting a great job right out the gate, getting mad when the benefits aren't exactly what he wanted, etc.

Ok. MH and I are both 6th-year PhD students RIGHT NOW, TAs and all, and our combined income as a married couple [BFP mention] expecting a child this March is less than what I made 10 years ago by myself as a teaching intern straight out of college. We're also getting our degree in a very expensive area of the country, and we count pennies like whoah.

Last week I cried because our car broke down AND MH's laptop died, eating up half of our hard-earned and hard-saved cushion money for the baby. But we're having a kid now because we know that trying to do it while we're both fighting for tenure will be even harder. So I really have no sympathy for this shit with the 30 yo cousin, haha.

Though MH's family can't offer any security, we're blessed that my parents have told us this child will be protected and fed, no matter what, but that financial safety net is a code-red backup plan. I haven't accepted a dime from my parents since the day I graduated from college, and I intend to keep it that way.

[tincupchalice]

People are overly afraid of failure. I think it's because they make it an emotional judgement in someway - "I failed, I'm a horrible person." Along those lines. "I can't let my child fail, they will be ruined forever!"

Failure is an excellent learning opportunity. "I failed. Why did I fail? What can I do to prevent that in the future?"

My son is not even two yet, but I'm all about free-range parenting so far.

[goldenlove3]

I had no clue that parents doing homework or going to their kids interview was such a big issue. Seriously?

I plan to raise my kids in a way that they can become self-sufficient and be able to function on their own. No way in hell I would do either of the above. My parents were strict with me when it came to boys but beyond that, they wanted me to learn how to be independent. My dad wanted me to know how to manage my own bank account, deal with my car issues, fill out my own paperwork etc. He gave us a little nudge when we needed it but let us handle the situation. For example, he told me one time that my car needs an oil change every 3 months and told me a good place to go. It was my responsibility beyond that.

I come from a culture where it's not unusual for a girl to get "married off" at 18 and is expected to just pop out babies. I'm very lucky that my parents were not like that and let me become a successful independent adult. I hope I can parent in a similar way.

[BurritosAtEveryMeal]

Aug 28, 2015 10:57:22 GMT -5 adorebel said:

First of all, I'm pissed that the generation breakdown went straight from X to Millenial. Those of us born in the 80s fit neither generation very well, partly because we came of age around 9/11, were first hit by the recession as young jobseekers, and initiated/participated in many of the protests/movements of this century. In the same way that boomers came of age at the cultural revolution of the 60s, the 9/11 moment seems like a really important cultural marker and tipping point, but WHATEVER. I hate you, experts.

ANYWAY.

I sometimes feel out of joint with either my own generation or my own understanding of what I'll be like as a parent. I see so many of my friends becoming parents and either doing things I say I would NEVER do with my kids or doing things THEY said they'd never do, but once they become parents, it all goes out the window. This often comes with a dose of "trust me, when you have kids, you'll [fill-in-the-blank] too."

Sometimes I think, "Wow, I really do have no idea what I'll do or feel as a mom. Maybe I will [fill-in-the-blank] too." Other times I think, no, there is no way in hell that my values and the way I was raised will allow me to coddle my child in the way you have normalized for yourself and your family.

Especially as a teacher, I am really wary of the article's mention of parents defending their kids against other adults /the world/ assuming their kids are always right - if a teacher has a concern about your kid, s/he is probably coming from a place of care and improvement, not maliciousness (not always, of course).

+1 on your last paragraph. Children are not always right and shouldn't be expected to be. I think it's hard for parents to not take personally their child's weaknesses or perceived weaknesses.

As far as parenting goes, I like how one of the authors said that she has two kids but is raising two adults. My parents gave me a lot of freedom to learn and if I failed, they didn't swoop right in to save me. They paid for my schooling because I am an only child and they could afford it at the time. I've been working at least part time since I was 14 and paid all my bills as soon as I went to college/moved out. Children need independence and the ability to take risks; they also need guidance, rules, and routines.

I think I could go on and on but I'll stop there.

[kayladawn91]

Aug 28, 2015 11:34:59 GMT -5 mcktymck said:

Dh and I are (for the most part) in the same boat when it comes to how we will raise our children. I strongly believe in working for what you want, not being handed everything. I had to buy my first car, so will our kids. I know so many people who were given cars as presents, and I just don't see the value in that. You appreciate things so much more when you have worked hard to get it. 

There will be no cell phones until at least freshman year of high school, or maybe not until they get a car. It drives me nuts seeing kids under 10 with cell phones. What's the point? What good could come from that?

As far as discipline, DH is in the "I'll spank my kid if they get out of line" camp, but I am very much against it and told him he'll have to deal with "mama bear" if he ever tries it. I plan on making it very clear what the consequences will be if they do the opposite of what is expected, and having the consequences be anything from having their favorite toy taken away from them for a certain amount of time, tv/computer/video game privileges, cancelling plans, time out, etc. Also, I have probably the best "look of death" in the entire world, so I'm hoping just that look will be enough to get them to knock it off 

I agree with the bolded. I was born in '91, but I don't feel like I'll be the kind of parent that fits into the stereotype for my generation. I want my kids to know how to work for what they have. That's how I was raised. I worked my way through college with zero help from my parents. But I have amazing parents. They just taught me to be independent and I'm grateful for that now.

[housecarder]

My parent long style is similar to my teaching style when I taught preschool. My job is to teach my children not need me. Obviously you always need your parents for different reasons, but we had an adult employee get into a disagreement at work and her mother called demanding to speak to the managers. I don't want to hinder my child's ability to handle their own problems and learn from their mistakes.

[pismoduo]

Aug 28, 2015 12:04:14 GMT -5 goldenlove3 said:

I had no clue that parents doing homework or going to their kids interview was such a big issue. Seriously?

<snip>    

My college roommate's mother used to write her first draft of her papers for her. She'd do all the research, write a rough draft, and then send it to her daughter who would then just polish it up so it had her "voice" to it and turn it in. I always wanted to report it, but I never had any proof.

[goldenlove3]

Aug 28, 2015 12:29:55 GMT -5 pismoduo said:

Aug 28, 2015 12:04:14 GMT -5 goldenlove3 said:

I had no clue that parents doing homework or going to their kids interview was such a big issue. Seriously?

<snip>    

My college roommate's mother used to write her first draft of her papers for her. She'd do all the research, write a rough draft, and then send it to her daughter who would then just polish it up so it had her "voice" to it and turn it in. I always wanted to report it, but I never had any proof.

Wow, that's ridiculous.

[Rama]

Aug 28, 2015 12:29:55 GMT -5 pismoduo said:

Aug 28, 2015 12:04:14 GMT -5 goldenlove3 said:

I had no clue that parents doing homework or going to their kids interview was such a big issue. Seriously?

<snip>    

My college roommate's mother used to write her first draft of her papers for her. She'd do all the research, write a rough draft, and then send it to her daughter who would then just polish it up so it had her "voice" to it and turn it in. I always wanted to report it, but I never had any proof.

I would have done it anyway.  The investigation can find with proof, too.

[pismoduo]

Aug 28, 2015 12:37:58 GMT -5 goldenlove3 said:

Aug 28, 2015 12:29:55 GMT -5 pismoduo said:

My college roommate's mother used to write her first draft of her papers for her. She'd do all the research, write a rough draft, and then send it to her daughter who would then just polish it up so it had her "voice" to it and turn it in. I always wanted to report it, but I never had any proof.

Wow, that's ridiculous.

It really was. This is the same roommate who, when I told her I was waiting for a very important call from my doctor's office, waited until I went to take a shower and then unhooked the phone line so she could use it to download music on Napster since the university had blocked it on the high speed network. I missed the call, and when I asked her why she couldn't have waited, she went on a tirade about how she needed that music right that instant because she was in the mood to dance and didn't have the right music for how she was feeling.

The fact that I did not kill this roommate still surprises me.

[pismoduo]

Aug 28, 2015 12:39:37 GMT -5 Rama said:

Aug 28, 2015 12:29:55 GMT -5 pismoduo said:

My college roommate's mother used to write her first draft of her papers for her. She'd do all the research, write a rough draft, and then send it to her daughter who would then just polish it up so it had her "voice" to it and turn it in. I always wanted to report it, but I never had any proof.

I would have done it anyway.  The investigation can find with proof, too.

True enough. I was much more fearful of confrontation back then, though.

[joy]

Aug 28, 2015 12:29:55 GMT -5 pismoduo said:

Aug 28, 2015 12:04:14 GMT -5 goldenlove3 said:

I had no clue that parents doing homework or going to their kids interview was such a big issue. Seriously?

<snip>    

My college roommate's mother used to write her first draft of her papers for her. She'd do all the research, write a rough draft, and then send it to her daughter who would then just polish it up so it had her "voice" to it and turn it in. I always wanted to report it, but I never had any proof.

This is academic dishonesty.  This girl should have been thrown out of college.

I take this shit really really seriously.  I will report anyone and everyone who does this shit.  Yes, even my friends.  You reap what you sow.  You cheat?  You deal with the consequences.