The Sleep Training Thread

[holliberry28]

Hey all.  I know May 15 had a pretty informative sleep thread, so I thought we could try and start our own here.

How is your LO sleeping now? Where do they sleep? Naps vs. MOTN?

Do you plan to use any sleep training strategies at 4 months? Or wait longer ?

I've read Weissbluth's book which calls for extinction right off the bat with his CIO method.  Ferber's is the more intermittent extinction method with the intervals of soothing.

Feel free to use this thread to ask questions, give case studies haha, or suggest books, websites, strategies.

[Widget123]

[dmoney]

We have been doing the CIO method, not sure which of the two doctors we are following. But we are going based off of what our pediatrician told us. We have been following a set of activities when it is time for a nap or bed time. All of which takes place in her bedroom. She gets a diaper change, a bottle (or nursed), swaddled, a book then she is put down for bed/nap. If she is crying we go in every 5-10 minutes to put a hang on her stomach and let her know its time for bed and then walk out. The past two nights it has taken about 45 minutes for her to go down. she is only crying for about 10 minutes. Most of the time she is just talking to her self.

[carolyngrace]

We've loosely done CIO for over a month now. We would go in every 5 minutes and pick him up until he was calm. At the beginning it took 2 or 3 times and then he'd fall asleep.

Now we don't really time it, but might go in once if it feels like it's intense crying for 10 or more minutes. But lots of nights we just let him work it out. For example last night he initially fell right asleep with no crying, but was up 20 minutes later fussing. We let him be, and after about a half hour of fussing off and on he was done.

I used to always do a bonus feeding if he woke up a half hour-hour after going to bed because I thought it'd help him sleep longer, but it doesn't seem to actually help.

In fact, this is anecdotal, but the two times this week I let him cry longer and didn't go in he slept the longest first stretches ever.

We've always put down awake for naps. He's been in the crib since around 2.5/3 months and is currently 4 months.

[carolyngrace]

Oct 7, 2015 8:33:20 GMT -5 budders said:

I didn't want to sleep train this early but may need to since V is not staying asleep/putting himself back to sleep and therefore I'm not sleeping either. I'm not well researched at this point, and want to talk to my ped today, but I do know that I personally do not feel comfortable with a method that does not allow for frequent soothing and reminders that I am there for him.

My friends recently did the W method. Their baby cried for almost an hour the first few nights! It totally worked because now she doesn't cry at all, but that seems sad to me too. I only do it now sometimes when DB isn't intensely crying. I feel like I can read the different cries and I ignore the tired one, but not the "I need someone!" one.

[Flick]

I do what carolyngrace does and it's worked wonderfully for us. M sleeps from 7:30-6 then has her first wake up and sleeps until about 8:30. She's able to put herself to sleep and keep herself asleep.

[ashbash]

Oct 7, 2015 8:45:18 GMT -5 carolyngrace said:

Oct 7, 2015 8:33:20 GMT -5 budders said:

I didn't want to sleep train this early but may need to since V is not staying asleep/putting himself back to sleep and therefore I'm not sleeping either. I'm not well researched at this point, and want to talk to my ped today, but I do know that I personally do not feel comfortable with a method that does not allow for frequent soothing and reminders that I am there for him.

My friends recently did the W method. Their baby cried for almost an hour the first few nights! It totally worked because now she doesn't cry at all, but that seems sad to me too. I only do it now sometimes when DB isn't intensely crying. I feel like I can read the different cries and I ignore the tired one, but not the "I need someone!" one.

I know we all need sleep and the sleep lady shuffle/ soothing every 5-10 min I can get on board with if need be but letting a 4 month old cry for an hour I just cant comprehend how a parent can sit and listen to that :/

We had success with the every 10 min or so soothing with DD at about 5.5 months. I wanted her to be a little older, not swaddled and able to roll and move around to get comfortable. We will probably do the same with DS if he doesnt start sleeping better by then, he is in the wake up 2-3 times club

[hannahl201477]

Oct 7, 2015 8:45:18 GMT -5 carolyngrace said:

Oct 7, 2015 8:33:20 GMT -5 budders said:

I didn't want to sleep train this early but may need to since V is not staying asleep/putting himself back to sleep and therefore I'm not sleeping either. I'm not well researched at this point, and want to talk to my ped today, but I do know that I personally do not feel comfortable with a method that does not allow for frequent soothing and reminders that I am there for him.

My friends recently did the W method. Their baby cried for almost an hour the first few nights! It totally worked because now she doesn't cry at all, but that seems sad to me too. I only do it now sometimes when DB isn't intensely crying. I feel like I can read the different cries and I ignore the tired one, but not the "I need someone!" one.

What is the W method? I definitely need to do more research. I pretty much only know about the CIO. Currently he starts out in his pack n play then around 5 ends up in the bed with us. My husband leaves at 6 so we have the bed to ourselves and sleep until about 8. I'm totally fine with him ending up in bed with us For the time being. Once he starts sleeping through the night I don't want there to be any bed sharing. So I know I'm probably going about it the wrong way. Lol. He is waking up about 3 times and would love that to end soon!

[baytosa2013]

So far we haven't done any sleep training...at least not that I'm aware of. Truthfully I haven't even read up on it. We've done the same routine since just before 6 weeks which is upstairs with low lights at 9, bath if it's bath night, jammies, bottle, and little rocking and in to the pack n play. WAY back @jemomma mentioned the hand on the chest thing and that's what I do when I put her down. Now she's starting to turn over when I put her down so I pat her bottom and she is asleep.

[alayne926]

I agree with ashbash and @jemomma, too early for me to start sleep training. Around 6 months with DS, he decided on his own that he didn't want to be rocked to sleep any more and we would put him down awake, pat his bottom or back for a bit and he would go to sleep on his own. We will do the same for DD around the same age if it's an issue.

[holliberry28]

Oct 7, 2015 10:47:04 GMT -5 hannahl201477 said:

Oct 7, 2015 8:45:18 GMT -5 carolyngrace said:

My friends recently did the W method. Their baby cried for almost an hour the first few nights! It totally worked because now she doesn't cry at all, but that seems sad to me too. I only do it now sometimes when DB isn't intensely crying. I feel like I can read the different cries and I ignore the tired one, but not the "I need someone!" one.

What is the W method? I definitely need to do more research. I pretty much only know about the CIO. Currently he starts out in his pack n play then around 5 ends up in the bed with us. My husband leaves at 6 so we have the bed to ourselves and sleep until about 8. I'm totally fine with him ending up in bed with us For the time being. Once he starts sleeping through the night I don't want there to be any bed sharing. So I know I'm probably going about it the wrong way. Lol. He is waking up about 3 times and would love that to end soon!

I think she's referring to Weissbluth. He's also CIO like Ferber but leans more toward putting baby to sleep and not going in at all. It's supposed to take less time/days for the baby to learn to self soothe that way or is good for babies who would get more upset or worked up having mom or dad come in and the leave.

Ferber has the interval soothe schedule, but it may take longer to work because of the intermittent reinforcement.

[Deleted]

+1 for team too early to sleep train. We'll probably start doing it over DS1's winter break when I don't have to work, don't have to get an older kid out the door for school, and it's easier for me to be up all night and tired in the mornings. Baby will be just over 6 months at that point. Before then I just don't feel like he's old enough. That's about the time I did it with DS1 and it only took a few days of the soothing in the bed to get him completely STTN.

But since you asked, he's just now starting to take predictable naps during the day. Usually a little before noon he'll fall asleep and I can get him to sleep in his room for an hour and half-ish. He also cat naps in the morning and again in the late afternoon. For bed time he goes down easily on his own at about 8 pm and sleeps until sometime between 1-2. We dream feed him in his crib for that waking. Then he's up again at about 5am and wants to nurse. I bring him to the bed with me for that so I can doze while he's on my chest. He's usually up for the day at about 7 am.

[holliberry28]

Oct 7, 2015 12:21:28 GMT -5 budders said:

Oct 7, 2015 12:11:28 GMT -5 @jemomma said:

You could try a few things to get her to soothe herself. With M, I found that white noise works pretty well, especially at night. We just turn on the radio to a static channel and that seems to keep her asleep for longer periods of time. You could also try a lovey - something that you may have noticed comforts her or makes her happy, usually a stuffed animal or blanket. For DD1, she had a blanket we kept with her from birth and she loved to snuggle against it and grab at it while she was asleep. Do you use a pacifier? Not all babies like them, but that helped with my previous 2 as well.

We use white noise. It's definitely helpful for him to keep him asleep once he is asleep, but doesn't really do much for him to get there on his own. I've also tried pacifiers, but as soon as they fall out he wakes himself back up again. I've also experimented with the swaddle to see if maybe leaving one or both arms out would help so that he can suck on his hands, but it hasn't made much of a difference in his sleeping patterns. He doesn't really have any toys or anything that he really loves, but that's something to look out for and consider. Thank you so much for your suggestions.

budders, I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time with V's sleep. Can you ask parents to come early morning over the weekend so you can catch up on sleep?

I know you're against CIO, but what if one or two days of crying helps him with his self soothing skills?! It seems like you've tried all the other tricks... You might like the book "the happy sleeper" or another one I heard was good is called "12 hours sleep by 12 weeks old " or something like that, that aren't as harsh as Ferber and Weissbluth..

Hope it gets better but I know we'll have to CIO with M. Just a matter of waiting til he's 18 weeks or 20 weeks and I'd rather him sleep better on his own sooner rather than later. I know by 4 months they are supposed to respond well to it, but I can also understand not wanting to do that so soon. I think we just might though because he won't even sleep in the crib.

Currently he's in his swing, will wake up for a free between 12-2 and then between 430-530. The sleep after that is all messed up, especially when he wakes at 430, then 450, then 530, etc etc.

[holliberry28]

Oct 7, 2015 13:05:29 GMT -5 @jemomma said:

Oct 7, 2015 12:47:11 GMT -5 holliberry28 said:

budders, I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time with M's sleep. Can you ask parents to come early morning over the weekend so you can catch up on sleep?

I know you're against CIO, but what if one or two days of crying helps him with his self soothing skills?! It seems like you've tried all the other tricks... You might like the book "the happy sleeper" or another one I heard was good is called "12 hours sleep by 12 weeks old " or something like that, that aren't as harsh as Ferber and Weissbluth..

Hope it gets better but I know we'll have to CIO with M. Just a matter of waiting til he's 18 weeks or 20 weeks and I'd rather him sleep better on his own sooner rather than later. I know by 4 months they are supposed to respond well to it, but I can also understand not wanting to do that so soon. I think we just might though because he won't even sleep in the crib.

Currently he's in his swing, will wake up for a free between 12-2 and then between 430-530. The sleep after that is all messed up, especially when he wakes at 430, then 450, then 530, etc etc.

If a parent is against CIO, it is not going to work for them. Period. This is one of those things that some people just DNW, and in order to make this method work, you really have to stick with it and it's harder to do that if you don't believe in the method to begin with.

I wasn't suggesting she do CIO if she's against it, that's why I commented on two other books that aren't CIO or at least that's what I thought.

@freckleface, I could understand you not considering sleep training, since it sounds like you have a great sleeper and don't need to.

[ashbash]

Oct 7, 2015 12:43:10 GMT -5 @freckleface said:

Am I the only one with no plans to sleep train? I am completely fine with LO not having scheduled naps. Right now, he falls asleep when he wants. If we're at home, I transfer him to his crib and if we're out and about, he sleeps in the stroller or carseat. Sometimes when we're home, he'll get a little fussy and I will put him in his crib and let him chat to himself until he falls asleep.

At night, we do our bedtime routine and most of the time, he goes into his crib drowsy but awake and falls asleep within a few minutes of me walking out of the room. Every now and then it takes like 20 minutes before he will put himself to sleep but he just squirms around and makes noise. We run white noise all night on an app using an old iPhone and it seems to work well. If he sleeps 9 hours great, if he's up after 5 to eat, that's fine too. Definitely not going to try to do any kind of sleep training/CIO this young.

I think most of us who are starting to look into sleep training wouldnt if our kid was sleeping like yours. Sounds like you have a naturally good sleeper. C wont transfer, wont fall asleep on his own a s if it was between 9 or 5 hours for a wake up I wouldnt care either, we are talking up every hour or 2 at its worst and 3-4 at its best. Its brutal.

[ashbash]

Oct 7, 2015 12:52:37 GMT -5 @jemomma said:

budders, I also wanted to mention possibly trying something like this - www.walmart.com/ip/Fisher-Price-Rainforest-Waterfall-Soother/5420735

We had something similar for DD1 and it helped her stay quiet enough and relaxed enough to fall asleep on her own (not every time, but maybe 60% of the time, which is better than nothing) once she was about 4/5 months. We lost it when we were traveling a couple of years ago, otherwise I would have tried it with M as well. Planning to buy another one soon though. There are some that attach to the side of the crib and some that have timers as well.

I was going to suggest something like this, we have the tranquil turtle and the lights are a good sleep cue for him and watching it helps him be calm so its not a 30 min struggle of soothing a worked up baby - good luck!!

[erbear]

I just imagine trying to sleep train during the four month sleep regression is like trying to drive a car with a flat Tire.

[seannemairi]

I don't want to jinx it, but I think we may finally be approaching the other side of our 4 month sleep regression. She mastered rolling from back to belly over the weekend and on Monday night she went back to our original routine - feeding to sleep from 830 to 9ish, let her lay on me for about a half hour then I put her in her rnp. She slept from then until 530 on Monday and 430 last night. Then back to sleep til about 8. I'm nervous to start sleep training because it'll be that plus trying to get her to switch to her pnp, I'm not ready for her to be out of our room yet. Mom-ing is hard!

ETA: I fucking jinxed it. It's 530 am and she's been up since 430. Which is her second time waking up tonight.

[holliberry28]

Oct 7, 2015 14:06:29 GMT -5 ashbash said:

Oct 7, 2015 12:52:37 GMT -5 @jemomma said:

budders, I also wanted to mention possibly trying something like this - www.walmart.com/ip/Fisher-Price-Rainforest-Waterfall-Soother/5420735

We had something similar for DD1 and it helped her stay quiet enough and relaxed enough to fall asleep on her own (not every time, but maybe 60% of the time, which is better than nothing) once she was about 4/5 months. We lost it when we were traveling a couple of years ago, otherwise I would have tried it with M as well. Planning to buy another one soon though. There are some that attach to the side of the crib and some that have timers as well.

I was going to suggest something like this, we have the tranquil turtle and the lights are a good sleep cue for him and watching it helps him be calm so its not a 30 min struggle of soothing a worked up baby - good luck!!

Where do you put the tranquil turtle? In the crib?

[alayne926]

We have the Fischer price soothing giraffe that lights up and plays music. The light is only on for a minute and the music goes for quite a while. Usually it's enough to calm her for little fussiness.

www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00JC3MOZ0/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1444249078&sr=8-1&pi=SX200_QL40&keywords=fisher+price+giraffe&dpPl=1&dpID=41RkIA8xIDL&ref=plSrch

[ashbash]

Oct 7, 2015 15:07:41 GMT -5 holliberry28 said:

Oct 7, 2015 14:06:29 GMT -5 ashbash said:

I was going to suggest something like this, we have the tranquil turtle and the lights are a good sleep cue for him and watching it helps him be calm so its not a 30 min struggle of soothing a worked up baby - good luck!!

Where do you put the tranquil turtle? In the crib?

I have it on his dresser/ changing table. It fills the whole ceiling and top parts of the walls, it reaches really far. The light is pretty bright so I didnt want it right in his crib. Its pricey but its been worth it

[carolyngrace]

Oct 7, 2015 12:43:10 GMT -5 @freckleface said:

Am I the only one with no plans to sleep train? I am completely fine with LO not having scheduled naps. Right now, he falls asleep when he wants. If we're at home, I transfer him to his crib and if we're out and about, he sleeps in the stroller or carseat. Sometimes when we're home, he'll get a little fussy and I will put him in his crib and let him chat to himself until he falls asleep.

At night, we do our bedtime routine and most of the time, he goes into his crib drowsy but awake and falls asleep within a few minutes of me walking out of the room. Every now and then it takes like 20 minutes before he will put himself to sleep but he just squirms around and makes noise. We run white noise all night on an app using an old iPhone and it seems to work well. If he sleeps 9 hours great, if he's up after 5 to eat, that's fine too. Definitely not going to try to do any kind of sleep training/CIO this young.

Not to be rude, but of course you aren't dying to sleep train. It sounds like you have an awesome sleeper on your hands! If he's already sleeping 5-9 hour stretches and falling asleep relatively easily I'm guessing you might not ever "need" to sleep train. 

ETA sorry, guess that had already been said by a couple of people. Not trying to beat a dead horse. 

[junch817]

Oct 7, 2015 10:47:04 GMT -5 hannahl201477 said:

Oct 7, 2015 8:45:18 GMT -5 carolyngrace said:

My friends recently did the W method. Their baby cried for almost an hour the first few nights! It totally worked because now she doesn't cry at all, but that seems sad to me too. I only do it now sometimes when DB isn't intensely crying. I feel like I can read the different cries and I ignore the tired one, but not the "I need someone!" one.

What is the W method? I definitely need to do more research. I pretty much only know about the CIO. Currently he starts out in his pack n play then around 5 ends up in the bed with us. My husband leaves at 6 so we have the bed to ourselves and sleep until about 8. I'm totally fine with him ending up in bed with us For the time being. Once he starts sleeping through the night I don't want there to be any bed sharing. So I know I'm probably going about it the wrong way. Lol. He is waking up about 3 times and would love that to end soon!

I've wondered about this whole bed sharing thing for the last hour or so. Does your husband not wake the baby? My husband is quiet but I think his alarm would wake up the baby. Or being in the bathroom right off the room.

[hannahl201477]

Oct 7, 2015 16:33:01 GMT -5 junch817 said:

Oct 7, 2015 10:47:04 GMT -5 hannahl201477 said:

What is the W method? I definitely need to do more research. I pretty much only know about the CIO. Currently he starts out in his pack n play then around 5 ends up in the bed with us. My husband leaves at 6 so we have the bed to ourselves and sleep until about 8. I'm totally fine with him ending up in bed with us For the time being. Once he starts sleeping through the night I don't want there to be any bed sharing. So I know I'm probably going about it the wrong way. Lol. He is waking up about 3 times and would love that to end soon!

I've wondered about this whole bed sharing thing for the last hour or so. Does your husband not wake the baby? My husband is quiet but I think his alarm would wake up the baby. Or being in the bathroom right off the room.

Yes, he wakes him but when he gets in the shower the sound puts him back to sleep. And he uses no alarm. Normally I'm his alarm bc I don't sleep worth anything anymore. It all just depends on if he wakes him again while he gets dressed. I normally threaten him. Haha

[periwinkledaydreams]

Wingin it here. No plans and no idea what Im doing. Some nights every once in a great while she needs relatively little help falling asleep (nurse, swaddle, goodnight snuggles) and goes down in her pnp by 8 and stays asleep there for 6 or so hours before nursing and going back to sleep. Other nights we struggle back and forth between the pnp and the rnp and the rocking chair til 9 then 10 then 11PM because she just won't be put down and needs to be rocked or even nursed back to sleep. Some nights she wakes every hour or 2 to nurse, some nights she wakes every half hour just needing a pacifier. One night she slept for 9 hours straight, never nursed or rocked in between and only needed me to replace her pacifier one time. I never know what Im gonna get!

Maybe I should try to sleep train, and maybe I will, but I don't think either of us are ready just yet. She doesn't have any kind of consistent pattern, I just try to adjust what I do as what she does changes (move the pnp closer to my bed sometimes so I don't have to keep getting out of bed and walking across the room every half hour to replace her pacifier, letting her sleep in the rnp instead of the pnp sometimes, etc).

We always use white noise and swaddle. Don't know what I'm gonna do when we have to give up that swaddle!

[mirage86]

Oct 7, 2015 16:23:05 GMT -5 ashbash said:

Oct 7, 2015 15:07:41 GMT -5 holliberry28 said:

Where do you put the tranquil turtle? In the crib?

I have it on his dresser/ changing table. It fills the whole ceiling and top parts of the walls, it reaches really far. The light is pretty bright so I didnt want it right in his crib. Its pricey but its been worth it

A few of my sisters have a tranquil turtle just for themselves. They're awesome! I'm waiting for ours to be delivered now, but planning on it being a Christmas present for E.

[dmoney]

Oct 7, 2015 13:46:15 GMT -5 budders said:

Oct 7, 2015 13:38:10 GMT -5 @jemomma said:

Yes, but I would set it on the floor instead of her crib so that the lights did not wake her up even more. The music was soothing enough that it was all she needed MOTN.

Excellent. And it's available through Prime. Ordering right now, thanks!!!





**STUCK IN THE BOX** budders- if that doesnt work. We got a glow worm for DD as a gift after she was born.  The face lights up but it is  not super bright at all and plays lullibies.  It seems to help her fall asleep at night.


www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0085TY1C6?keywords=Glow%20Worm&qid=1444307615&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1 

Could be another possibility if the other item doesnt work. 

[dmoney]

Oct 8, 2015 8:20:46 GMT -5 budders said:

Oct 8, 2015 7:34:45 GMT -5 dmoney said:

I had one of those when I was little! I may need to get that anyway just for nostalgia.

I had one as well when I was little, but it didnt play music.  Hers plays music.  We keep it on top of the crib since we dont want anything in her crib just yet.  But the face dims down slowly.  Its also not bright enough to light up the room so thats a plus. 

[dmoney]

Oct 8, 2015 8:26:22 GMT -5 budders said:

Oct 7, 2015 14:21:59 GMT -5 @imapenguin said:

I'm never smiling like that when I use it though. It's usually 4 in the morning and I'm praying to everything that she just goes back to sleep.

www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B006YBHE6M/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1444245496&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=baby+einstein+sea+dreams+soother&dpPl=1&dpID=51NFtTRIdWL&ref=plSrch

I might order this one also and decide between this and the other one. I like the remote feature and that this one is $10 cheaper.

Also, Amazon Prime is deadly for my wallet.

Try having Prime Now... 2 hour delivery.. thats really deadly.  

Thank you Amazon for opening a shipping plant 5 miles from my house!!

[dmoney]

Oct 8, 2015 10:03:21 GMT -5 @imapenguin said:

Oct 8, 2015 9:11:12 GMT -5 dmoney said:

Try having Prime Now... 2 hour delivery.. thats really deadly.  

Thank you Amazon for opening a shipping plant 5 miles from my house!!

Jealous.

Dont be.  We spend to much money because we can get almost anything we want so fast!!