DS came home from DC looking like this

[somebabiesmom]

I got an incident report that said he was playing with another boy when they fell and the boy scratched his face. Clearly, this was not what happened (pic below). I sent an email to the director that I was concerned the kids were playing too rough, but my DH is furious and is afraid he is being bullied. We've had a couple of incident reports - they're not unusual, but not typically alarming. Once DS came home with a hefty bump and cut on the inside of his lip. I barely noticed it when I picked him up and didn't think much of it, but it got worse over then next couple of hours (and ended up looking pretty bad) - which made me think it happened right at the end of the day. No one has any idea what happened. DH is convinced he would have cried - but I disagree. DS has taken his immunizations without even flinching and seems to have a very high pain tolerance. And it really looks like he bumped his mouth on something and his tooth cut his lip. But DH disagrees and will not settle down about it, b/c the explanation DC offered was that he bit his lip in his sleep. I think they were just grasping for an explanation. DH thinks they're covering something up...kind of rolling my eyes on this one, but it's what is fueling DH's upset - so FWIW.

I also noticed that one of the younger girls (19-20) was watching at the time that the scratch happened. She's very sweet and loves the kids, and I adore her with our kids; but she doesn't have as much experience as the other teachers. So things happen more often with her and she has fewer skills to manage and monitor the kids. It appears to me that the kid that grabbed at DS got a few good swipes in before she got involved. I know kids can be brutal and lack motor skills at this age, but still not sure what level of outrage I should have...? WDYT? Kids playing normally? Kids playing rough? DS being bullied?

FWIW - DS likes to play "bowling ball" (runs into kids to try and knock them down - it's not like a collision - more like wrestling) and also "pretend falling." Apparently, this is a game he plays at DC. We discourage it at home (and I mentioned that in my email, too).
 

[2chatter]

I cannot tell from the pic, but DS has had similar (several scratches/gashes) from a full or two hand scratch/claw/grab.
I didn't really believe that until I saw him do it to his older sister at home and leave her face very marked up in two seconds (thanks DC for that - there is a nonverbal child in DS' class that does things like this and it's an ongoing discussion with DC that they need to control it).

[welly01]

I'm torn. The scratches look pretty bad, enough to at least be concerned about. Also, it concerns me that the DC can't provide a good explanation of what really happened or they seem to be making things up as explanation. Was he in the classroom at the time and is there video footage that you could ask to review? But it also sounds like your DS likes to play rough.

Even if these were obtained through innocent play, I would still have a discussion with the DC director and his lead teacher. It seems like your husband is much more upset about this and I don't think he should just ignore how he feels. Just like any other situation that arises in DC, I think its important that you are able to get comfortable that your kid is safe and he has competent teachers looking after him.

[somebabiesmom]

DS plays rough, but has never left marks like this. It just looks like he was mauled (not to bias anyone looking at the pic). The red mark on the bottom is where the kid's pinky finger appears to have been. The thumb also broke the skin, but you can't see it in the pic. So you can see pretty clearly where the kid's hand was for the first grab, then where he got in at least another couple of digs.

DS has been resistant to go to DC lately also. DH started doing drop-off right around the same time that he switched rooms which is also around the same time that DS had a change of heart about DC. He's been with mostly the same kids and has had struggles with them from time to time. Based on some of our impressions of the kids' parents (generally unfriendly, lack of interest in their kids, not overtly affectionate), it's very possible that the kids' home lives aren't overwhelmingly positive. I love the staff, but maybe DS is just in with a rougher bunch of kids? We just didn't have issues like this when the kids were all younger.

DS has also been taking on a "teacher role" at DC. I assume this is partly due to him not going down for a nap when the other kids do, but maybe he feels separated from them somehow?

Holy Jeezus. I thought after I stopped dating, I was done with all the subtextual analysis.

P.S. Just wanted to add that my DH and I agreed to let him handle the affairs of the children. I just do scheduling. Even though he's much more abrasive (I consider myself to be very diplomatic), abrasive seems to get shit done. So. Even though I'm going to hell for it, I've agreed to let him [man]handle DC about these things.

[twinmomma]

Honestly, my kids play really rough with each other, and I've basically never encountered scratches like that. They are not gentle girls and "football tackle" is one of their favorite games lately, so we've seen our fair share of bumps and bruises. That would be a big red flag to me, but, we're not in daycare so I don't know if things are more apt to happen there, if that makes sense.

[doodler]

Jan 30, 2015 9:16:07 GMT -5 welly01 said:

I'm torn. The scratches look pretty bad, enough to at least be concerned about. Also, it concerns me that the DC can't provide a good explanation of what really happened or they seem to be making things up as explanation. Was he in the classroom at the time and is there video footage that you could ask to review? But it also sounds like your DS likes to play rough.

Even if these were obtained through innocent play, I would still have a discussion with the DC director and his lead teacher. It seems like your husband is much more upset about this and I don't think he should just ignore how he feels. Just like any other situation that arises in DC, I think its important that you are able to get comfortable that your kid is safe and he has competent teachers looking after him.

I agree with all of this.  I will say that my best friend has a daughter a few months older than your son who recently got in a tiff with her five year old sister and before anyone could intervene she clawed her sister's face and broke the skin worse than in your picture.  It had never happened before and she hasn't done it since.

[greenmonkey1]

Jan 30, 2015 9:45:13 GMT -5 somebabiesmom said:

DS has also been taking on a "teacher role" at DC. I assume this is partly due to him not going down for a nap when the other kids do, but maybe he feels separated from them somehow?

I call my son (2.5 years) "Safety Patrol" because he engages in behaviors I assume are similar to what you describe as taking on the "teacher role".  DS tells kids not to leave the room, go to the carpet (if the teacher is instructing to do so), etc.  He's like a little parrot "backing up" the teachers.  I once asked if it was a concern and was told it is age appropriate.  So I wouldn't worry (at face value) about your DS taking on a teacher role.

[alioop1028]

I just want to echo welly01, and suggest having a meeting with the DC director and lead teacher to air out your concerns. Even if nothing is happening and it's just rough housing hopefully the meeting will make them watch the children closer because they know you're watching. And will make your husband feel better is that he's being heard.

[toratoratori]

Jan 30, 2015 9:16:07 GMT -5 welly01 said:

Even if these were obtained through innocent play, I would still have a discussion with the DC director and his lead teacher. It seems like your husband is much more upset about this and I don't think he should just ignore how he feels. Just like any other situation that arises in DC, I think its important that you are able to get comfortable that your kid is safe and he has competent teachers looking after him.

Ditto this.

[mustardseed2007]

I think a sit down could really help and I would do it if my kid came home with scratches like that. It's a lot of scratches and I would want them to know I had noticed and I care. I just think it might encourage future vigilance if you point out to the director and lead that - look this happened in his class and it looks damn awful.

[Deleted]

Manhandle daycare?

What does that mean? It doesn't sound productive.

[Deleted]

You admit that DS plays rough. Bumps, bruises and scrapes should be expected. And the teachers may not know what happened. Things happen quickly and sometimes they are attending another child while an incident happens.

However, if DS is a known rough player then DC should be watching him to nip the rough play to prevent him hurting himself and others.

I don't mean to sound harsh but bullying at this age? Also, he is the one running into other kids to knock them down. I'm sure other parents would be pissed at this.

[wesleycrusher]

I worked kids for many years and they are very quick. Maybe one of the reasons you doubt what they say is because they are afraid to tell you the truth- which may be "sorry it happened fast and we didn't see it"- but you are pushing for an answer so they are trying to give you an explanation.

I do think you should say something about watching him closely because he likes to play rough but being "abrasive" and "furious" isn't going to help the situation.

[Deleted]

The picture you posted looks like an incident that would take a bit of time and likely be noisy in the process. Certainly worth a conversation with your DCP.

There are other things in your post that are more worrisome though.

Letting your DH take of issues with DC because he is more abrasive and "gets shit done" makes no sense.  Your child playing "bowling ball" and intentionally knocking other kids down in the name of fun needs to be addressed.  Throwing around a term like "bullied" when it comes to toddlers/preschoolers and their bumps and bruises is excessive and a bit reckless. Relying on your 2.5 year old to accurately account for all of his bumps and bruises is naïve.

I well remember DS1 coming home from daycare with bite marks, scratches and the like. Sometimes there would be an incident report, sometimes not. I do remember feeling helpless and like I was sending DS into toddler-war (my overreaction at the time) and the guilt that came along with those feelings.

I would involve myself in the discussion regarding the scratches. I don't know what "shit needs to get done" when it comes to providing care for your child. 

[mustardseed2007]

I actually do get the delegation of dc communication, although not in every situation. I mean, in our HH we have stuff that one person is in charge of - I cook dinner and pay bills, dh does dishes and laundry.

I usually do dc communication bc I do morning drop offs and I'm also the school's point of contact by email. But if I want something said bluntly and artlessly then sometimes I'll ask dh to say something instead of me. He gets the message across with no hedging so it's just very clear. Respectfully but artlessly. It's how he communicates in all situations.

Whereas I think a lot before I say anything in most situations unless I'm actually mad. It takes a lot of effort for me to do anything else. So if I want to ask a question bc I'm curious, or I need to frame something in a specific way, I pretty much have to do it bc that kind of thing is almost universally beyond my h.

[Deleted]

Yeah, but I'm sensing her DH has a temper and his manhandling isn't very respectful. I'm reading between the lines.

[wesleycrusher]

Jan 31, 2015 14:31:04 GMT -5 @ridesbuttons said:

The picture you posted looks like an incident that would take a bit of time and likely be noisy in the process. Certainly worth a conversation with your DCP.

I disagree with this part. It looks to me like something that could have happened very fast.

[somebabiesmom]

I'm still torn. We have a plan for home, but not for DC.

I was thinking about it over the weekend and had several thoughts:
1. DS was playing pretend football and it looked very similar to the "bowling ball" and "moshpit" games they play at DC. Maybe this type of play will subside now that football is over.
2. DS has a lot of energy. If he doesn't get a good way to burn it, he gets restless.
3. DS acts up when he's tired.
4. DS has been sick lately, so we may be reading too much into him not being happy to go to DC. He's moody when he's home, too.
5. I read an article about kids who tend to act out physically at this age have deeper emotional wells which results in big emotional reactions and not enough tools to deal.

So we're just working on maintaining consistency and increasing our positive messages to him. Discipline is boiled down to 3 very matter-of-fact things that we repeat all day long as his "goals" for each day: share, take turns, be gentle. We talk to him in advance about how we'll let him know if he's not doing these things and then give him a time-out. And when he does these things, we make a big, huge, happy deal out of it. I've also started talking to him about how to address when people/kids do things he doesn't like, and rolemodeling when he does something I don't like.

As for DC, we haven't heard anything from them yet. We just don't have a feel for the type of environment DS is in with the other kids. We know we love his teachers, just afraid the other kids are a rougher bunch due to circumstances at home. The only feedback we've gotten about how DS interacts with the other kids is that his bad days are better than some of the other kids' average days. When we ask if he has any "friends," they tells us that the kids don't really play with each other at this age - just "around" each other. DS likes to play teacher. And DS had a big, long, animated conversation all by himself the other day while the kids were going down for naps (he doesn't go down b/c I pick him around that time). So I'm starting to think that DS is a bit of a loner - which was not our initial impression of him before his transition to this room. He's always shown a big interest in other kids and loves to go up and play with anyone who's around. I seriously wish I had more friends with kids, b/c it would really help me to gauge all this so much better...

[callmeKD]

so a couple of things - my DD came home last week with some scratches on her neck (ie the 13 month old was trying to "hug" her and scratched her). The next day, she came home with scratches (and the start of a bruise) on her forehead. the 5 year old boy fell on her while playing on a separate toy. totally an accident. her marks look much worse then they actually are.

I asked DCP what happened and was given an explanation that I feel comfortable with. it doesn't happen on a regular basis and I expect that DD will get some bumps and bruises.

[2chatter]

This sounds really flippant, but if DC is playing a game called "moshpit" I would probably start touring new centers.

[sassypantzz]

Idk. I have a lot of feelz on this.
1) Kids will be kids, some will behave well and some will not regardless of parenting quality. (I tend to be more laid back about bumps and bruises than I probably should, but that is a result of DDs personality. She is a tough and tumble ENERGETIC child)
2) You AND your DH need to trust the care you are leaving your son in. If you don't it is time to move on bottom line.
3) I get the delegation of roles as I am the primary for things involving DD, but if ever DH had the availability or wanted to meet with DCP he would absolutely be allowed and encouraged. I don't think you should let your husband take the lead and you stay back. If you want to be there you should be there without a doubt (or maybe I read that wrong but just my thoughts)

Either way, good luck.