NGKUR: Internship advice

[notagoddess]

I have to choose between two options for an internship, and I'm having trouble deciding.

Some background: I am getting my master's in a field that is new to me. I don't have very many connections yet and I hope to use this experience to network as much as possible. Both positions will pay approximately the same, so I'm not using that as a deciding factor.

Option A:
-Much closer and an easier commute. I can carpool with MH (we have one car).
-They will pay for me to travel to a national conference in June where I will hopefully present my work.
-The supervisor is fine, but not great.
-The work seems more difficult, in that I will be on my own a lot. I would prefer to learn from an expert rather than myself at this point.

Option B:
-Longer commute of up to one hour. MH will have to take a series of buses to get to work through the winter. 
-I will not be funded to travel to any national conferences.
-The supervisor seems great. I think I would get a valuable mentorship going.
-I will get to use familiar software so I can just focus on the actual problem-solving rather than figuring out the basic tools.

Overall, I'm seeing it as a better, more nurturing work environment at Option B vs. a shorter commute and a national conference at Option A. 

I would appreciate any input. I'm having so much trouble making a decision!

[WittyLittle]

I don't "know" you and your goals well enough to say 'do this' but I often have to guide my MSc students in their internship choices so hopefully I can ask a few questions to make the choice clearer? (I'll try hehehe)

1. Which company is bigger/more well known?
2. Which role is more suited to what you want to do in the future?
3. How are the reputations for both companies' internships? Are either known for overworking their interns or not valuing their input?
4. Sometimes internship supervisors end up being much different than in the interviews. If you had to totally write off this person, which internship would keep you going?
5. What would look better on your CV?
6. For option B, is the role worth the commute (especially with question 4 in mind?)
7. What field is your Masters in btw?

From what my students' experiences have been, my very personal preference would be towards A. But I'm a very pessimistic person with this nowadays. There are internships that are great and really pave the way for the future. But more often than not, students say the only thing they really gained was experience on their CV. Sometimes a better network. But the mentorship thing is quite often an act, that's why I'm slightly skeptical.

I hope that was slightly helpful and wasn't tldr. I hope you get a useful and fruitful internship!!!

[notagoddess]

Dec 17, 2015 16:43:17 GMT -5 WittyLittle said:

I don't "know" you and your goals well enough to say 'do this' but I often have to guide my MSc students in their internship choices so hopefully I can ask a few questions to make the choice clearer? (I'll try hehehe)

1. Which company is bigger/more well known?
2. Which role is more suited to what you want to do in the future?
3. How are the reputations for both companies' internships? Are either known for overworking their interns or not valuing their input?
4. Sometimes internship supervisors end up being much different than in the interviews. If you had to totally write off this person, which internship would keep you going?
5. What would look better on your CV?
6. For option B, is the role worth the commute (especially with question 4 in mind?)
7. What field is your Masters in btw?

From what my students' experiences have been, my very personal preference would be towards A. But I'm a very pessimistic person with this nowadays. There are internships that are great and really pave the way for the future. But more often than not, students say the only thing they really gained was experience on their CV. Sometimes a better network. But the mentorship thing is quite often an act, that's why I'm slightly skeptical.

I hope that was slightly helpful and wasn't tldr. I hope you get a useful and fruitful internship!!!

Thanks, that was helpful! I hadn't considered that the whole 'I will be your mentor' thing could be a hiring tactic. And the supervisor at option A could end up totally fine.

I'm getting a master's in Higher Education. The internships are at equally prestigious universities. Both roles are for the same function in higher ed administration. So it's really the supervisor that's the selling point for Option B.

[pismoduo]

I'm with WittyLittle - I'd probably go with option A. I took an internship my last quarter of University and the manager I interviewed with was amazing, and really talked up the whole mentoring thing.

Yea. My first day, he forgot I was coming. Finally came and met me at Reception like an hour after I got there. Showed me my desk, but didn't have any equipment for me to actually do any work on. Finally volunteered me to do some scanning/copying, but never bothered to introduce me to anyone or show me the bathroom. It was like that for the entire 12 week internship.

So, discard the supervisor. Based on the rest of it, I'd go with A. The national conference is an awesome opportunity, you'll be able to do a much easier commute (thus reducing your stress level) and sometimes the whole self-managing thing is actually a bonus because the work is all yours, not someone else's.

[pismoduo]

Dec 17, 2015 16:51:09 GMT -5 starbuck27 said:

I'm interested to see your responses to PP. But I actually like that option A is more independent. It will push you to keep leaning, master new software skills, etc.

That's my drive by reaction.

Great minds and all that.

FWIW, half the things I can do now I can only do because I was left to my own devices and had to figure it out. My first boss had a habit of just tossing a project on the desk and wandering off.

[pinkcat]

I think the above is great advice. Another thing I would think about is do either of them have long term potential? Could you see one of them offering you a full time job at the end of the internship? Is there room to grow?

I also think that it's very possible that a supervisor who seems great in an interview may not be great to work with, and one who doesn't seem as helpful may turn out to be a great mentor. I wouldn't necessarily put too much weight into that unless you had an extensive interview and or other interaction with them.

Good luck deciding!

[ceejay]

I agree with the other posters and would lean towards A.

Working on your own will likely be a good learning experience for you and will stretch you to learn new things. And you will probably have more control of your schedule that way which is a good thing! And presenting at the national conference will probably look great on your resume (and also be a good learning experience!).

And like others have said, it's hard to really know how a supervisor will be until you're working with them day to day. Is there any way you could ask to speak to other employees or interns currently working in these departments, to get a better idea of the actual work environments?

Honestly, the biggest deciding factor for me (from the things you posted) would be the commute. I commuted 2 hours each way when I was in grad school and it was terrible. It very much affected my quality of life and my mood. The easier commute and carpooling with your husband sounds so much better than the hour-long commute.

[notagoddess]

starbuck27, pismoduo, I agree that being on your own is a great learning experience. I need to keep that in mind. 

I am surprised that most people are discounting the seemingly better supervisor. That is the biggest selling point for Option B. Without that, Option A is the clear winner.

I'm trying to judge long-term potential, but I think it's about the same at both institutions. The extra networking from the conference could be very helpful in finding a job.

[WittyLittle]

Dec 17, 2015 16:51:05 GMT -5 notagoddess said:

Dec 17, 2015 16:43:17 GMT -5 WittyLittle said:

I don't "know" you and your goals well enough to say 'do this' but I often have to guide my MSc students in their internship choices so hopefully I can ask a few questions to make the choice clearer? (I'll try hehehe)

1. Which company is bigger/more well known?
2. Which role is more suited to what you want to do in the future?
3. How are the reputations for both companies' internships? Are either known for overworking their interns or not valuing their input?
4. Sometimes internship supervisors end up being much different than in the interviews. If you had to totally write off this person, which internship would keep you going?
5. What would look better on your CV?
6. For option B, is the role worth the commute (especially with question 4 in mind?)
7. What field is your Masters in btw?

From what my students' experiences have been, my very personal preference would be towards A. But I'm a very pessimistic person with this nowadays. There are internships that are great and really pave the way for the future. But more often than not, students say the only thing they really gained was experience on their CV. Sometimes a better network. But the mentorship thing is quite often an act, that's why I'm slightly skeptical.

I hope that was slightly helpful and wasn't tldr. I hope you get a useful and fruitful internship!!!

Thanks, that was helpful! I hadn't considered that the whole 'I will be your mentor' thing could be a hiring tactic. And the supervisor at option A could end up totally fine.

I'm getting a master's in Higher Education. The internships are at equally prestigious universities. Both roles are for the same function in higher ed administration. So it's really the supervisor that's the selling point for Option B.

TBH that makes me highly favour option A (i'm all about lists today hahaha!) 
1) independent work is a very highly valued skill in academia (administrative and research staff)
2) that conference will be a brilliant networking possibility in case the university doesn't plan to hire their interns (can you ask someone about their intern-retention rate by the way?)
3) at the end of the day if they are equally prestigious universities, noone is really going to value that you had a great mentor when it comes to your CV the hope is that you really do learn more skills, but more often than not these programmes are unfortunatley over-sold (to make interns more motivated to work hard and pick up the slack that the managers should actually be doing). 

I'm genuinely excited about the opportunities with internship A. You get to be in control of your work, show your stuff and network at a conference, and stand-offish managers are less likely to disappoint  
Btw if you're not a natural networker, read up how to network before you go to the conference. I got totally blind sided at my first one and really wasted the opportunity.

[notagoddess]

Dec 17, 2015 17:02:04 GMT -5 ceejay said:

I agree with the other posters and would lean towards A.

Working on your own will likely be a good learning experience for you and will stretch you to learn new things. And you will probably have more control of your schedule that way which is a good thing! And presenting at the national conference will probably look great on your resume (and also be a good learning experience!).

And like others have said, it's hard to really know how a supervisor will be until you're working with them day to day. Is there any way you could ask to speak to other employees or interns currently working in these departments, to get a better idea of the actual work environments?

Honestly, the biggest deciding factor for me (from the things you posted) would be the commute. I commuted 2 hours each way when I was in grad school and it was terrible. It very much affected my quality of life and my mood. The easier commute and carpooling with your husband sounds so much better than the hour-long commute.

My last commute was 2-2.5 hours each way, and after that job, I said I will never do a hard commute again. The hour commute is a breeze compared to that, but Option A is only 25 minutes with traffic. I would waste less than 1 hour of my day! That's unbeatable.

The other thing is, I hope I will be pregnant sometime soon. Commuting while pregnant is hard. And if I'm not pregnant, I might get started on fertility treatments, which will require flexibility and proximity to the doctor's office.

[ceejay]

Dec 17, 2015 17:04:07 GMT -5 notagoddess said:

I am surprised that most people are discounting the seemingly better supervisor. That is the biggest selling point for Option B. Without that, Option A is the clear winner.

It's just hard to judge how a person truly is from one interview. The director for my current position seemed to be kind, charming, and intelligent at my initial interview with him. After working for him for 4 years, he has proved himself to be selfish, chauvinistic, and sometimes even cruel. People are usually on their best behavior during interviews, and it's hard to get an accurate picture of what they are like as a manager from one meeting. I would try to talk to others in the departments to see what the work environments are actually like.

[notagoddess]

Dec 17, 2015 17:07:18 GMT -5 WittyLittle said:

Dec 17, 2015 16:51:05 GMT -5 notagoddess said:

Thanks, that was helpful! I hadn't considered that the whole 'I will be your mentor' thing could be a hiring tactic. And the supervisor at option A could end up totally fine.

I'm getting a master's in Higher Education. The internships are at equally prestigious universities. Both roles are for the same function in higher ed administration. So it's really the supervisor that's the selling point for Option B.

TBH that makes me highly favour option A (i'm all about lists today hahaha!) 
1) independent work is a very highly valued skill in academia (administrative and research staff)
2) that conference will be a brilliant networking possibility in case the university doesn't plan to hire their interns (can you ask someone about their intern-retention rate by the way?)
3) at the end of the day if they are equally prestigious universities, noone is really going to value that you had a great mentor when it comes to your CV the hope is that you really do learn more skills, but more often than not these programmes are unfortunatley over-sold (to make interns more motivated to work hard and pick up the slack that the managers should actually be doing). 

I'm genuinely excited about the opportunities with internship A. You get to be in control of your work, show your stuff and network at a conference, and stand-offish managers are less likely to disappoint  
Btw if you're not a natural networker, read up how to network before you go to the conference. I got totally blind sided at my first one and really wasted the opportunity.

The department that I'm hoping to work for (that these internships are in) is usually 2-3 people. At some large institutions it's 4 or 5. They don't have any kind of formal internship program where I could talk to previous interns, unfortunately.

I am definitely not a natural networker! I have no ideas on how to act during a conference. That's a good topic to read up on!

[notagoddess]

Dec 17, 2015 17:10:55 GMT -5 ceejay said:

Dec 17, 2015 17:04:07 GMT -5 notagoddess said:

I am surprised that most people are discounting the seemingly better supervisor. That is the biggest selling point for Option B. Without that, Option A is the clear winner.

It's just hard to judge how a person truly is from one interview. The director for my current position seemed to be kind, charming, and intelligent at my initial interview with him. After working for him for 4 years, he has proved himself to be selfish, chauvinistic, and sometimes even cruel. People are usually on their best behavior during interviews, and it's hard to get an accurate picture of what they are like as a manager from one meeting. I would try to talk to others in the departments to see what the work environments are actually like.

The supervisor for Option A gave me an offer on Friday and said I had to respond by Monday. Also, he was talking about how I should propose an hourly salary based on other offers I had (while giving me only one business day to consider the offer). I was kind of put off by the pressure and saw it as a bit manipulative. Is that a red flag, or not really? He teaches a business class to undergrads so it might just be his mindset.

[pinkcat]

Dec 17, 2015 17:22:43 GMT -5 notagoddess said:

Dec 17, 2015 17:10:55 GMT -5 ceejay said:

It's just hard to judge how a person truly is from one interview. The director for my current position seemed to be kind, charming, and intelligent at my initial interview with him. After working for him for 4 years, he has proved himself to be selfish, chauvinistic, and sometimes even cruel. People are usually on their best behavior during interviews, and it's hard to get an accurate picture of what they are like as a manager from one meeting. I would try to talk to others in the departments to see what the work environments are actually like.

The supervisor for Option A gave me an offer on Friday and said I had to respond by Monday. Also, he was talking about how I should propose an hourly salary based on other offers I had (while giving me only one business day to consider the offer). I was kind of put off by the pressure and saw it as a bit manipulative. Is that a red flag, or not really? He teaches a business class to undergrads so it might just be his mindset.

I would not think of that as a red flag and don't see it as manipulative, just as someone who's in the business field and used to negotiating.

[ceejay]

Dec 17, 2015 17:22:43 GMT -5 notagoddess said:

Dec 17, 2015 17:10:55 GMT -5 ceejay said:

It's just hard to judge how a person truly is from one interview. The director for my current position seemed to be kind, charming, and intelligent at my initial interview with him. After working for him for 4 years, he has proved himself to be selfish, chauvinistic, and sometimes even cruel. People are usually on their best behavior during interviews, and it's hard to get an accurate picture of what they are like as a manager from one meeting. I would try to talk to others in the departments to see what the work environments are actually like.

The supervisor for Option A gave me an offer on Friday and said I had to respond by Monday. Also, he was talking about how I should propose an hourly salary based on other offers I had (while giving me only one business day to consider the offer). I was kind of put off by the pressure and saw it as a bit manipulative. Is that a red flag, or not really? He teaches a business class to undergrads so it might just be his mindset.

I don't think it's manipulative. Sometimes supervisors have hiring deadlines that are put in place by people above them, so he could have just been trying to meet his deadline. Or sometimes they have other back-up candidates that they would offer to if you rejected the offer, and they need to not keep those people waiting for too long. As for proposing a salary, maybe he thought you already had other offers?

[notagoddess]

Dec 17, 2015 17:30:57 GMT -5 pinkcat said:

Dec 17, 2015 17:22:43 GMT -5 notagoddess said:

The supervisor for Option A gave me an offer on Friday and said I had to respond by Monday. Also, he was talking about how I should propose an hourly salary based on other offers I had (while giving me only one business day to consider the offer). I was kind of put off by the pressure and saw it as a bit manipulative. Is that a red flag, or not really? He teaches a business class to undergrads so it might just be his mindset.

I would not think of that as a red flag and don't see it as manipulative, just as someone who's in the business field and used to negotiating.

That makes sense. I was not expecting a hard sell type situation in higher ed, so it came as a bit of a surprise.

He seemed like a very nice guy outside of that. 

Thank you all so much for your insights. I would not have thought of the supervisor aspect that way without you. I am waiting for both offers to go through HR, but I am strongly leaning towards Option A at this point.

[notagoddess]

Dec 17, 2015 17:34:21 GMT -5 ceejay said:

Dec 17, 2015 17:22:43 GMT -5 notagoddess said:

The supervisor for Option A gave me an offer on Friday and said I had to respond by Monday. Also, he was talking about how I should propose an hourly salary based on other offers I had (while giving me only one business day to consider the offer). I was kind of put off by the pressure and saw it as a bit manipulative. Is that a red flag, or not really? He teaches a business class to undergrads so it might just be his mindset.

I don't think it's manipulative. Sometimes supervisors have hiring deadlines that are put in place by people above them, so he could have just been trying to meet his deadline. Or sometimes they have other back-up candidates that they would offer to if you rejected the offer, and they need to not keep those people waiting for too long. As for proposing a salary, maybe he thought you already had other offers?

They did not have a listed position or other candidates. I proposed to do some data analysis work as an internship, and that led to the interview. So there was no pressure on the supervisor that led to the hiring deadline.

[wannabmama]

I agree with PP. I, too, work for someone I left my previous job for because he talked mentorship and experience up...and I've had neither. Also...commute is huge in overall happiness. Way more than I ever considered. For a great job, a long commute is worth it...for a toss-up, take the shorter commute. Every. Single. Time.

[notagoddess]

Dec 17, 2015 18:33:35 GMT -5 wannabmama said:

I agree with PP. I, too, work for someone I left my previous job for because he talked mentorship and experience up...and I've had neither. Also...commute is huge in overall happiness. Way more than I ever considered. For a great job, a long commute is worth it...for a toss-up, take the shorter commute. Every. Single. Time.

My friend told me that a better commute contributes to your happiness the same as a $40k raise. It seems there is some evidence for that! Article 

[notagoddess]

The other thing that I forgot is that a long commute for me means sleep deprivation. I struggle to fall asleep early and I tend to sleep late naturally. So if I have a long commute, I have to get up early and miss out on needed sleep.

[wannabmama]

notagoddess I completely agree with the commute assessment. Mine is about 1.5 hours each way under good circumstances and I basically want to cry every day (part of that is the job itself, ha). I've been trying to figure out what paycut would be worth a shorter commute...